The discussion here is running along the "are safety belts really neccessary ?" lines. Fuses prevent major damages even if such events are (hopefully, I dont know where else Weller has cut corners) rare. Not everything that is (barely) legel and increases profit (by a ridiculous amount) is smart in the end.It really isn't. I don't think people here will make the mistake thinking that slapping on a safety device will automatically make things safer. Note that I'm not defending Weller not using a fuse. I'm simply trying to view the matter from different sides, looking at the actual facts we have. Dave wasn't afraid to admit the problem in the video was user error. That leaves the question how much of a problem not having a fuse really is if you don't grossly overload the device. A decision I don't understand could very well be an opportunity to learn about something I hadn't considered before, but someone else did figure out. I've seen more than one teardown which shows something which seems a terrible idea, but actually turns out to work remarkably well. Are there reasons this design may be reasonable, like transformers inherently limiting the current or different transformer designs being used between the US and EU model? Are there other things we may be overlooking? If there's a negative impact, can we quantify it? Or is this really penny pinching of the kind we all hate? Some people seem really keen on getting out the pitchforks and don't seem to mind fabricating provocative stories to justify their outrage and that's what I object to. I don't feel the fundamentalist approach and piling on is very appealing, and alternatively hope to tap into the considerable knowledge of the population here to maybe learn a thing or two.
Dave, this is the third time you've repeated yourself. I've attempted to answer you twice already, so I'll let you scroll back. But really, the only ones who can answer that are Weller.
Because people keep asking over and over again why people are making a big deal over this. And they keep coming back with the argument that it's 240V into a 120V tranny so it deserved to fail etc.
... in other words, you try to practice tolerance and understanding for the unworthy. I do not see *one* honest reason (greed excluded) for a primary side protection device like a fuse or a thermofuse. Its so simple - even if failures and injuries are rare, you still have a good point eliminating them. If profit comes first - bad choice, especially for a "premium" product. All the desparate reasearch for a good reason why Weller (they are still working on their response ...) did this is academic and a bit futile, no ?
Discussion about safety belts have subsided after a few years, IIRC. Common sense will prevail in the end (I am an optimist)
Had DJ tried to run the unit from a 120 volt ugly square wave inverter, some aviation 400hz thingie or a dimmer buzz adapter to control the temperature
Dave, this is the third time you've repeated yourself.
Wow, that is pretty ironic!
We have also read your opinions multiple times, but many of us clearly don't agree with it - just as you don't agree with ours.
they will likely see a measurable hit on sales targets.
even if failures and injuries are rare, you still have a good point eliminating them.
the discussion here, which isn't as black and white as some people would make it seem in their enthusiasm to pile on. Kleinstein's remark on how a thermal fuse may be more appropriate than a primary fuse is a good example of how things are probably a bit more nuanced than "no primary fuse = bad".
even if failures and injuries are rare, you still have a good point eliminating them.
So we should protect against each kind of failure, no matter how rare, even 1/1,000,000? That would be quite a task.
Please do some reading about cost-benefit analysis.
the discussion here, which isn't as black and white as some people would make it seem in their enthusiasm to pile on. Kleinstein's remark on how a thermal fuse may be more appropriate than a primary fuse is a good example of how things are probably a bit more nuanced than "no primary fuse = bad".
No no no. This is the internet. We exploit irrational fears to set up an extreme knee-jerk reaction, draw lines, set up a scapegoat to crucify, and we all jump on the tribe bandwagon. We paint mushy dissenters as the enemy and burn them, thus reinforcing our previously held beliefs. No prisoners. No compromise! That's how progress works
I totally understand why some people are so paranoid, it's usually those who has already been burned in the past :-)
I totally understand why some people are so paranoid, it's usually those who has already been burned in the past :-)I think think different people handle trauma in different ways. Most people employ "flight" and do everything they can to avoid future confrontations, and possibly blame others for their misfortune.
Others try to learn what happened and why, analyze it rationally, and then try to change their approach. It's like learning to swim.
I've gotten the 120V handshake several times, and I have a better understanding of it as a result. I don't cower from outlets or go install GFCIs on everything.
The *cost* of a failure can easily exceed millions (fire, causalties, injuries, ...) ... the chance of a Weller blowing up is one or two orders of magnitude higher than 1:1E6.... people that cut corners on safety
FWIW I don't agree DJ should cop the rap of 'user error' on a unit made by a company that flogs it's wares to a 120 volt @ 60 hz nation that also has a 240 volt supply.
DJ plugged it in and the unit smoked because the manufacturer FAILED to deploy a cheap fusing device to prevent an input voltage mishap,
and no real obvious appropriate caution labeling
FWIW I don't agree DJ should cop the rap of 'user error' on a unit made by a company that flogs it's wares to a 120 volt @ 60 hz nation that also has a 240 volt supply.
DJ plugged it in and the unit smoked because the manufacturer FAILED to deploy a cheap fusing device to prevent an input voltage mishap,
and no real obvious appropriate caution labeling
I'll still happily cop the user error tag.
But I do think that the use of a universal IEC socket without a mains fuse is begging for trouble in today's global economy. And the voltage label is on the bottom, not the back where the plug is.
If it had a fixed mains cable and 120V plug (like Hakko do) then they could get away with it. But even in this case, Hakko have a fuse.
Dave, this is the third time you've repeated yourself. I've attempted to answer you twice already, so I'll let you scroll back. But really, the only ones who can answer that are Weller.
Because people keep asking over and over again why people are making a big deal over this. And they keep coming back with the argument that it's 240V into a 120V tranny so it deserved to fail etc.
Right, so you post without reading. The fuse justification you keep repeating is that Weller puts them in their higher end stations. Explain.
The car industry in the old times claimed that safety belts and crash energy reduction zones where not neccessary because it was always the fault of the driver.
The turning point was that even a faulty driver should be given a chance to survive.
Shit happens - just make sure that there is a safe way to fail.
And the voltage label is on the bottom, not the back where the plug is.
The car industry in the old times claimed that safety belts and crash energy reduction zones where not neccessary because it was always the fault of the driver.
The turning point was that even a faulty driver should be given a chance to survive.
The car industry in the old times claimed that safety belts and crash energy reduction zones where not neccessary because it was always the fault of the driver.
The turning point was that even a faulty driver should be given a chance to survive.
Shit happens - just make sure that there is a safe way to fail.You seem to insist on making the comparison to safety belts. Can you demonstrate that the actual impact of omitting the safety feature is similar in both cases? Or is it more like not fitting traction control?
Safety belts are just a trivial example. They saved a lot of lives before traction control was invented. IMHO, you are completely missing the point. As Dave has pointed out above, it is incredibly silly to do something that Weller did, for what reason *ever*. In all the academic discussion, I found only *one* explicable reason to leave out the fuse : greed. Very human, but still silly. Or have I missed some incredibly smart theory that a fuse would do more harm than good ?
ROFL at witch hunt accusations, Cadillac lane keep cameras, plastic versus metal car ramps, 'user error' stone throwing, scapegoat crucifixions, bandwagon jumping, safety belts,
keeping tabs and nagging the OP for repeating themselves over a 20+ page span...
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If companies like Behringer that make affordable gear can fit IEC sockets with labelled 120/240v flippable idiot-proof fuse holders (I'll have to drum up a picture asap),
Weller should have been on that wagon over 20 years ago.
I'm assuming DJ may have a 240 to 120 volt stepdown box or Variac kicking in the lab,
which would have come in handy -IF- Weller made some effort to label the unit
and or supply an incompatible IEC female to 120 volt plug cable,
or better still fit a ---FUSE--- in the thing too,
so all he had to do was 'DOH...!' fork out a couple of bucks for a new fuse,
plug the recovered unit into the stepdown or variac, and continue on
WORST CASE SCENARIO Had it been left unattended and caught fire in a business complex, or in a stacked shoe/dog box apartment tower,
let's talk about the price of lives and property versus the price of a fuse and thermal cutout.
The only 'user error' here was failing to suspect the possibility of penny pinching that's wormed it's way into a reputable brand,
or 'Weller Error' in the design of these particular units,
hey **it happens, we understand > just FIX IT
and clue up the PR department in correct damage control procedures for now and next time,
so all can be well (er) again,
and the issue blows away...
if you have made a point somewhere and I didn't respond then either post it again
industry standard practice
that puts the personal liability on to them