... if you insist, *ugly* fanboys.
Oops... I forgot to include bigclive's appropriate response to the 120->240V mishap video above:
Classic Clive...
Actually, BigClive is wrong. The primary saturated and ran well beyond 4 times normal power dissipation, and then likely went into accelerated melt down as the enamel was burnt off and the primary turns shorted.
The comment is about the toaster, not the soldering station. 120 V --> 240 V on heating elements ==> 4x the power.
Instead of glowing a dull red like normal, the heating elements lit up brightly like a bulb. The toaster was glowing like crazy.
Another would be to add a primary fuse and to see whether that protects the unit completely from 230V.
Of course it would.
People seem to think I'm arguing one way or the other. I'm not. I'm seeing claims being made about the station being dangerous without a fuse.
At least one of them went up in smoke without it.
Wouldn't you at least want to know it won't do
that?
Wouldn't you at least want to know it won't do that?
It's easy enough to ensure by
not taking it to another country.
Wouldn't you at least want to know it won't do that?
It's easy enough to ensure by not taking it to another country.
We know of at least one that went up in smoke.
And we know about mains surges in
your country.
And you can avoid having to wear a seat belt by simply driving carefully....
Appliances I have seen or repaired that do not have a primary fuse - only light fixtures and 1960's car battery chargers, vintage tube radios.
Possibly a few old wall warts, although I'm not sure as I didn't unwind the transformer looking for a thermal fuse. Even in the 1980's there were thermal fuses in consumer electronics (small tranformers). I used to repair clock radios, ghetto blasters, stereos, TV's etc. in a shop, not casual numbers.
In low <~20VA transformers, fine primary copper wire does end up being a fuse at the bobbin lead-in. I have seen two melt there, say smaller than
#28 AWG. Inductance leading to an arc in the bobbin, can't be a good idea with this method. It's odd the UL standard does not allow it but the IEC standard seems to:
IEC 61558-1; 15.3.5 intentional weak part. "may be an... inaccessible weak point in a winding."
UL 1585; 18.2 "Crossed or reduced cross-section conductors shall not be used as a protective device. A nicked conductor is a form of reduced cross-section conductor."
...And we know about mains surges in your country.
It may have been asked before but just where is
'that' country ?
seeing as Weller Fellas timelessbeing and Mr. Scram are from Country: 00 or is it Country: OO ?
And we know about mains surges in your country.
Feel free to show us a case where a mains surge caused it to "go up in smoke".
And you can avoid having to wear a seat belt by simply driving carefully....
The alternative to not wearing a seatbelt is
death. You're not very good at this analogy game are you? The fuse is more like wearing a helmet to walk your dog.
And we know about mains surges in your country.
Feel free to show us a case where a mains surge caused it to "go up in smoke".
LMGTFY.
Looks like this thread's over. All that's left is trolls and people who refuse to see common sense.
For this iron.
Looks like this thread's over. All that's left is ... people who refuse to see common sense.
I completely agree.
Given a free choice: Wouldn't you prefer to have a fuse on the back?
Me? I don't think it's a lot to ask in a $100+ tool.
(or do you really think it would make soldering more awkward and uncomfortable?)
Oops... I forgot to include bigclive's appropriate response to the 120->240V mishap video above:
Classic Clive...
Actually, BigClive is wrong. The primary saturated and ran well beyond 4 times normal power dissipation, and then likely went into accelerated melt down as the enamel was burnt off and the primary turns shorted.
That particular comment was in regards to the toaster video, not your Weller video(s). I should have been more clear.
The point is that 120V appliances and devices are often not designed in such a was as to fail completely silently and smoke-free when plugged into 240V. It is simply not something that is generally considered an important factor and is normally deemed to be an infrequent enough probability of occuring that things like the enclosure containing most of the mayhem is considered enough in standard design.
Things like inverter/chargers are far more of a problem, where things like sparks and burning material are almost certain to spew out upon a semiconductor failure (almost always a short) given the thousands and thousands of amps available, especially on the DC side, even with protective fuses and/or circuit breakers fitted in the DC battery lead. You're specifically supposed to take care to install it in such a way and pay attention to the surrounding materials below, etc. to limit the chances of combustion when a failure occurs and the molten material fountain blasts burning stuff all over your inverter closet.
Does anyone have a copy of that Motorola modem ad from the 80s/early 90s where they show the unit that UL flame tested the chassis on? I'll have to dig up a copy.
I really don't appreciate being railroaded onto Weller's side. Let's stop fishing, baiting and framing and get back on topic.
Neither do I, especially this "if you don't agree that a fuse must be mandatory in every case, you must be a corporate apologist or paid shill." nonsense.
Wouldn't you prefer to have a fuse on the back?
Since you're offering it to me for free, then of course I'll take it. But since it would just sit on my bench, plugged into a 120V socket, it wouldn't make any difference. If it's a choice between irons, then I would focus on more important things. The Weller takes way too much space for example.
Given a free choice: Wouldn't you prefer to have a fuse on the back?
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't think it should have a fuse, just refuting the idea that
not having a fuse on something is
automatically a complete fail. There is a wide chasm between those ends of the spectrum.
What happened to the Remi video I posted? People liked it.
I removed it. Stop spamming this thread.
Given a free choice: Wouldn't you prefer to have a fuse on the back?
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't think it should have a fuse, just refuting the idea that not having a fuse on something is automatically a complete fail.
When your competition (including the $20 clones) have it, and most of Weller's own products have it, it's hard not to see it as a fail.
This entire thread is about
context in terms of Weller and their decision, not absolute technical right/wrong devoid of context detail.
The point is that 120V appliances and devices are often not designed in such a was as to fail completely silently and smoke-free when plugged into 240V. It is simply not something that is generally considered an important factor and is normally deemed to be an infrequent enough probability of occuring that things like the enclosure containing most of the mayhem is considered enough in standard design.
I'd argue it should be if you use a universal IEC mains input connector.
This never would have passed mustard at any company I've ever worked at.
Neither do I, especially this "if you don't agree that a fuse must be mandatory in every case, you must be a corporate apologist or paid shill." nonsense.
I haven't seen anyone say that here.
Given a free choice: Wouldn't you prefer to have a fuse on the back?
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't think it should have a fuse, just refuting the idea that not having a fuse on something is automatically a complete fail.
When your competition (including the $20 clones) have it, and most of Weller's own products have it, it's hard not to see it as a fail.
This entire thread is about context in terms of Weller and their decision, not absolute technical right/wrong devoid of context detail.
Dave, would you be availabe for a test where a Weller unit is *not* removed from mains after it started smoking ?
Some Weller fanboys here say that there is no safety issue because no open flames occurred.
Dave, would you be availabe for a test where a Weller unit is *not* removed from mains after it started smoking ?
Nope, I'm done.
But anyone who wants to do this, I'd say that there are large variables in this, so testing just one and getting a negative result doesn't tell you much, you need to test a number of them.
Dave, would you be availabe for a test where a Weller unit is *not* removed from mains after it started smoking ?
Nope, I'm done.
But anyone who wants to do this, I'd say that there are large variables in this, so testing just one and getting a negative result doesn't tell you much, you need to test a number of them.
OK Fair enough. I agree that just one unit is not enough, but my question is if convincing some hardcore fanboys is worth buying 10 Wellers and then blowing them up.
Not sure. IMHO, the parrot is dead and stays dead.
Only buy stuff with a fuse !
my question is if convincing some hardcore fanboys is worth buying 10 Wellers and the blowing them up.
Nope. They'll still say "Well, don't use them on 240V then!" and "I never had a problem!"
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't think it should have a fuse, just refuting the idea that not having a fuse on something is automatically a complete fail.
It might only be 1% fail from a technical viewpoint, but it's a
complete fail from a marketing and user-confidence-generation viewpoint.
And... that's what this thread is
supposed to be about. Go watch the video again, see Wellers pages and pages of "Safety first!" advertising, etc.
Given a free choice: Wouldn't you prefer to have a fuse on the back?
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't think it should have a fuse
Well, there you go! Everybody would
like a fuse, ideally, but Weller is failing to provide one.
Marketing 101: "Exceed your customer's expectations".
Then why do Weller bother to fit fuses to most of their other products in the same functional category?
If there is any argument here at all, this is it.
Again, Weller are allowed to sell a (certified) product without a mains fuse, that's not an issue, but why do some of them have a fuse and some don't?
The answer is still the same as the last times it was discussed.