Dave, dont worry. Darwinism will take good care of these people.Don't hold your breath.Dont worry. Darwinism has worked well over at least a few 100 million years ... . It wont fail just here, I am sure.
expensive models include a well-known safety device: a fuse.Once again, safety of the iron. Short memory?What do you mean?The fuse is protecting the soldering station. We've been over this.
I am asking myself if all the ardent Weller defenders here are either dealers, stockholders or otherwise affiliated with Weller -
then they did a terrible job on regaining customer confidence in Wellers products and company image - OR -
they are associated with some of Wellers fiercest competitors trying to discredit the company - then they were really brilliant.
But it doesn't have a mains fuse. That's what this is all about.
I am asking myself if all the ardent Weller defenders here are either dealers, stockholders or otherwise affiliated with Weller -
then they did a terrible job on regaining customer confidence in Wellers products and company image - OR -
they are associated with some of Wellers fiercest competitors trying to discredit the company - then they were really brilliant."These people don't agree with me. They must have financial motives!"
What a shameful suggestion. Maybe it's the lack of relevant evidence?
Fully agree. It *is* shameful to cut corners at a penny safety device that would have prevented what happened to Dave. And this for a self-proclaimed premium brand with all the Chinese doing better.
Fully agree. It *is* shameful to cut corners at a penny safety device that would have prevented what happened to Dave. And this for a self-proclaimed premium brand with all the Chinese doing better.There's a good way of finding out whether that actually would have prevented what happened to Dave. How much are you donating to the testing funds? $50?
Why not ? The only thing I dont like about it that we are collecting money to *buy* stuff from Weller. If they supply the soldering stations for free, I would donate to the other costs of the test.
i wanna know how many people defending this shit burn tires in their living room fireplace
Do you have any evidence that there have been any failures that resulted in any property damage due to, for example, one of these units bursting into flames and burning down someone's house, lab, place of business, etc? Has anyone been zapped into a permanent coma by such device? These are the things that the standards, regulations, etc. are meant to influence...
Why not ? The only thing I dont like about it that we are collecting money to *buy* stuff from Weller. If they supply the soldering stations for free, I would donate to the other costs of the test.Consider that a well set up and documented test which turns out to be unfavourable for Weller is likely to cost them significantly more than that. If there really are problems, Weller won't profit. If it doesn't turn out to be an issue, it's not really an issue the units are bought. Are you in?
We're still looking for tests which test the necessity of a primary fuse when normal voltages are applied. Right now we only have two gross overloading tests. Suggestions are welcome.
IMHO, The tests should comprise the following:
- Line voltage transients (some standardized procedure. I dont know what the US rules ask for)
- permanent overvoltage (as happened to Dave)
then, it should be decided what a pass and a fail is and after what time this needs to be determined. Candidates:
- An open fire is a fail (I think that is clear)
- Too much smoke so that smoke detectors go off is a fail too.
The tests should be done in a certified (fireproof) lab.
I think the communication policy of Weller is a desaster anyway, but they dont care so much. They could repair their image by supplying the units.
Daves video has been seen by a few thousand people by now, and it is plausible that not all of them will buy a Weller next time
But it doesn't have a mains fuse. That's what this is all about.Please refer to the last time you brought this up. It appears you're being wilfully obtuse for the sake of arguing.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1160-weller-responds/msg2068060/#msg2068060
That didn't proved anything to me.
If the smoking, fuseless transformer looks like it's safe to you, well, you're free to think whatever you like. But don't expect that most people will think the same.
And as i said, you cannot guarantee the safety of a transformer that was smoking it's enamel. A fuse would have blown before that happens.
So, why not to include a fuse, when it's very cheap, everyone else uses it, and would improve the safety of the device? Nobody designs mains connected equipment without a mains fuse, because when shit goes wrong with mains, it goes really wrong. Too much power there. Would you remove the fuse just because your found some certification that won't require one? I wouldn't expect a simple 40 watts soldering iron to be fused, because, well, there's no much space to even put a fuse in there, and it has just a heating element inside, and that's it. Neither would i leave it connected and go away for any significant amount of time. But a soldering station? Is there even another fuseless soldering station out there?
Maybe to weller this falls under the ridiculous reasoning of "this may cost $1 per unit, but in 1,000,000 units, that's $1,000,000 we could save". But then, why not just charge $1 more, and be done with it?
Maybe it's a design issue or manufacturing error? But then, it's crazy if they don't fix it, as they could get sued. At least go the "xbox way", and provide an external safety.
And even more important: if they have a good reason for the fuse to not be there, just share that information with the electronics community!!
With regard to the car analogy ... drivers and passengers walk away generally alive
I can't even imagine how much fun some of you guys were having trying to impugn all the old-school manufacturers back-in-the-day when we had current-production things like live chassis TVs and radios that were perfectly cromulent design choices at the time....
I suppose, in here, there will probably now be a lobby for imbedded smoke-detectors on all new transformer-operated devices to cut the current to the supply in the case of a failure, unlike those old-fangled, transformer-based, death-trap wall-warts...
You know, instead we must all now use those ultra-safe, super-reliable chinese SMPS thingies that everything seems to come with.
"But they have a fusible resistor in them!"
Fusible resistor, indeed....
Quote from timelessbeing:
analogy fail
A) There are probably hundreds of thousands of accidents per day
REPLY: There are 'probably' many accidents related to car design issues, either not addressed ($ $ $-RECALL-$ $ $) or swept under the doormat
and or just payed out when necessary, to nagging victims via 'no win-no fee' attorneys
B) You can't control other bad drivers. You CAN control what you plug your iron into.
REPLY: You can't control what others plug their iron or your borrowed iron into,
best to have a properly rated fuse in the sucker = less thinking about who's plugging what into where,
and just get on with the soldering thing..
C) From what I can tell, Dave walked away alive. In fact his life wasn't in danger.
REPLY: His lab was in danger of going up in smoke (and not in an Option B: Cheech and Chong fashion) if he left it unattended, as he's not imprisoned there afaik.
and his wallet was in danger too, on a Fire Brigade call out fee, lab mop up, gear replacement, paint job, a carton of Glen 20,
and slab of beer and pizzas for mates rocking up to assist...
REPLY: There are 'probably' many accidents related to car design issues, either not addressed ($ $ $-RECALL-$ $ $) or swept under the doormat
and or just payed out when necessary, to nagging victims via 'no win-no fee' attorneys
best to have a properly rated fuse in the sucker = less thinking about who's plugging what into where ...
His lab was in danger of going up in smoke ...and his wallet was in danger too
IMHO, The tests should comprise the following:
- Line voltage transients (some standardized procedure. I dont know what the US rules ask for)
- permanent overvoltage (as happened to Dave)
you cannot guarantee the safety of a transformer that was smoking it's enamel.
If it's UL listed, hasn't it already been tested for this?
Why do we have to do this again? Dave conducted this test. And it failed, exactly as it should have.