East Tester ET4410&ET4510 Desktop LCR Meter

[JohanH]

Banggood also sells the ET4410 (under the Mustool brand). I bought mine from them. They may or may not have a better return policy than Aliexpress (they claim 30 days and 180 days for quality problems). I have some 0.1, 0.02 and 0.01% resistors, and it reads spot on in every range (the 100k 0.01% reads 100.00 kohm).

[Martin72]

Yep,

I've ordered my new one from them.
Went very fast because of the warehouse in CZ.

[ton4eff]

It was definitely more difficult with customer support on BangGood last time I checked. I didn't have to return anything so far, but I had a very bad experience a few years back (I'm a bad luck magnet obviously...). Plus I had to use my $20 coupon on AliExpress. I'm not in a hurry. I believe the guts of this unit are all the same, regardless of the manufacturer? My current version is in the picture below. 6.00.2423.059

[JohanH]

I believe the guts of this unit are all the same, regardless of the manufacturer? My current version is in the picture below. 6.00.2423.059

I believe it's just rebranded. I wrote about some details here including pictures: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-testermustool-et4410-lcr-meter-first-impressions/

[jheissjr]

But I did contact them, as I wrote a few posts above, they never gave me an option to return it

Can you upload a picture of the response from the seller?

[enoch247]

Did anyone find, where the calibration could be stored? Any external EEPROMs or rather in µCs internal NVM? External storage would make a backup easier. But I assume chances are not too high for that.

In their DC loads, there is a SPI flash chip, where I assume calibration data lives. Do the LCR meters have something similar?

[Houseman]

I Have just attempted to write your SRAM dump of the ET4410, to My ET4401 wrote ok no issues there but no Change to the devices functionality,

No change to the Serial number or device name either, I suspect the same issue I was having before is cropping up, There seems to be some Error Correction or something on the chip that replaces/rewrites "invalid" data

Have You ever tried to fool the MCU by simply extracting your original ET4401 SRAM dump, hex-modifying the string ET4401 into ET4410 (or even 4510..) and then reloading it into the unit and see if the MCU corrects it (by rereading it again after reboot) or if everything goes ok also takes it as granted?
Often this is a good trick used.. The MCU at boot checks the version number and according to the data it acts accordingly.
Maybe it simply checks also the serial number to see if it is in the range of the 4410 devices.. who knows.
I can't wait my segger to arrive to completely brick my device.... 

[Houseman]

Martin, hello, I am intended to go inside the rabbit hole of the bootloader process sniffing. Which tool have you used to extract it? the one provided by Nations: NS-LINK-Pro? or whatever?

Hi Houseman,
I used the Segger J-Link Mini EDU for this, along with an adapter board and a 4-pin connector from Amazon.
I read the part in the memory block using the J-Link software , or more precisely the J-Link Commander(included).

Does anyone have sniffed around the other N32 lying on the mainboard?
I know you have swapped the two units, but has anyone monitored what happens in connection between the two boards?

I have not done that yet.
I assume that the two chips “talk” to each other serially.
The chip on the mainboard will “only” pass on the measurement results that were previously processed by it, because external D/A or A/D converters are not present on the mainboard, but in the chip.
Since nothing had changed “back then” due to the front panel replacement, i.e. the mainboard has nothing to do with the respective model, I didn't pay any further attention to the chip on the mainboard.

Martin, can't the calibration data lay in the mainboard pcb MCU? that could make more sense...

[w.v.s.]

I Have just attempted to write your SRAM dump of the ET4410, to My ET4401 wrote ok no issues there but no Change to the devices functionality,

No change to the Serial number or device name either, I suspect the same issue I was having before is cropping up, There seems to be some Error Correction or something on the chip that replaces/rewrites "invalid" data

Have You ever tried to fool the MCU by simply extracting your original ET4401 SRAM dump, hex-modifying the string ET4401 into ET4410 (or even 4510..) and then reloading it into the unit and see if the MCU corrects it (by rereading it again after reboot) or if everything goes ok also takes it as granted?
Often this is a good trick used.. The MCU at boot checks the version number and according to the data it acts accordingly.
Maybe it simply checks also the serial number to see if it is in the range of the 4410 devices.. who knows.
I can't wait my segger to arrive to completely brick my device.... 

In the firmware I've found some integers in the SRAM-address range, which are checked in a switch-case manner and lead to different model-type strings. But I did not find the time to do any JTAG-like connections to the µC so far.

[ass20]

Stm32F4 extract
https://jerinsunny.github.io/stm32_vglitch/

this technology can be applyed to N32g4 ?
but second technologu is add flash dumper to update firmware

I check fw .. it is have som function without reference... itis can be called from bootloader..

see https://lujji.github.io/blog/reverse-engineering-stlink-firmware/

[w.v.s.]

Stm32F4 extract
https://jerinsunny.github.io/stm32_vglitch/

this technology can be applyed to N32g4 ?
but second technologu is add flash dumper to update firmware

I check fw .. it is have som function without reference... itis can be called from bootloader..

see https://lujji.github.io/blog/reverse-engineering-stlink-firmware/

Thank you for those interesting links! I would like to experiment a bit more on that. But right now too much higher priority stuff on the table.

[ass20]

 I have east tester DC load et5410 (not et5410+) I test connection beetwin ET4410 fw updater and ET5410.. connection fail ET5410 said Rcmd err...

[w.v.s.]

The ET4510 etc. go into a boot-loader menu, that is human-readable (for those who can read Chinese), when they receive the right triggers. It might be a better chance watching the serial port and trying to trigger your load than hoping that the LCR update software will have an effect on the load.

[w.v.s.]

I have east tester DC load et5410 (not et5410+) I test connection beetwin ET4410 fw updater and ET5410.. connection fail ET5410 said Rcmd err...

But there was some software for the loads, too. Did you read this one? And what is the difference between the ones with "+" and without?

hello  guys!

I buy  the last model dual load  ET5420A+   and detect  a fex of bugs  in the firmware and contact  the support of ET . 
this send me  a hex file and  a application to update the firmware but all in chinese.

Have any of you ever updated the firmware?

the software  show all buttons in chinese or  unreadable characters and  i can't  upgrade.

this is the links  sed  by  the suport of ET


ET54A+_Boot升级流程English.pdf (452.96KB)查看/下载https://drive.263.net/link/fqukk0zII0snDzr/?link=fqukk0zII0snDzr
ET54A+.2334.020(150V).hex (870.06KB)查看/下载https://drive.263.net/link/JYOohoRH93OYiX6/?link=JYOohoRH93OYiX6
ET54A+电子负载升级V1.05.rar (1.37MB)查看/下载https://drive.263.net/link/4XXX6M2F5pAvaie/?link=4XXX6M2F5pAvaie

links expired, did you download the files? if yes can you post them here?

Btw, can you connect both channels in parallel without any problems?

Hello, we are currently trying to learn about the update process of the ET44XX and ET45XX lcr-meters.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg5542409/#msg5542409

I would like to do some comparisons with the ET54XX electronic load. Did anyone download that update files and could share them?

The user never posted or sent the files to me, so can't help you. One thing I advise all owners of these units is to check connection on the binding posts. Most of them come loose and if that's the case you will get voltage drop readings deceiving you on the real results. I own both ET5410A and ET5420A and they act defective because of that. After tight good all binding posts this units are working fine.

[Martin72]

Martin, can't the calibration data lay in the mainboard pcb MCU? that could make more sense...

Yes, I would say so.
But I had “measurement error” when I had swapped the front panels and when I swapped them back, they had disappeared.

[ass20]

w.v.s.

I found fw updater to ET53 DC load
on tgis video

I download this updater software .. It is on china lang and writen on VC ( LCR updater sw writen on delphi7)

I check ET54 ET53 updater exe Itis use for download fw HEX scpi command :UPDATE :STOP :END

What is chip used in you LCR n32 or stm32 ?

Good SW for debugging arm cpu is OZONE and jlink ..
stm32f103 extractor
https://blog.zapb.de/stm32f1-exceptional-failure/

[w.v.s.]

w.v.s.

I found fw updater to ET53 DC load
on ...
I download this updater software .. It is on china lang and writen on VC ( LCR updater sw writen on delphi7)

I check ET54 ET53 updater exe Itis use for download fw HEX scpi command :UPDATE :STOP :END

What is chip used in you LCR n32 or stm32 ?

Good SW for debugging arm cpu is OZONE and jlink ..
stm32f103 extractor
https://blog.zapb.de/stm32f1-exceptional-failure/

Thank you for the hints. It's a Nations Technologies Inc N32G455VEL7 in my case.

[pizzigri]

So I followed a link posted in one of the ET4410 threads here on EEV to a Russian user that lamented a lot of problems with his copy of the LCR meter.
This is the link: https://www.drive2.ru/b/698648106182381206/ and the Google auto translation is terrible, I can figure out a few things - some are obvious like the data wires running together to the mains leads, some other are not... I wanted to replicate some of his "improvements", but they are unclear. Did he replace all electrolytic caps? Or only the ones in the PSU? Which "shunts" (I imagine refers to decoupling caps - or not?) did he replace with better NPO/COG caps? The filtering on the PSU is from outside crap (i.e. line filtering like a classic Schaffner) or towards the meter PCB?
And lastly, I sincerely do not see black solder on SMD - or maybe the translation is incorrect?
To all the Russian speaking friends here can someone help me understand what was done here to improve the meter?
I really appreciate all the help!
Franco

[Martin72]

Hi Franco,
Are you having problems with your LCR?
If not, I wouldn't do anything.
You can make things worse, especially if you replace components that are involved in the (internal factory)calibration.

[pizzigri]

Hi Martin,
no not really - the meter does work and compared to my DER EE 5000 it seems to be quite aligned, however  I do see inside the meter how some portions of the internal build does indeed "cut corners" and I was more concerned with the PSU aspect of it.
I'll take your suggestion...

[Martin72]

Hi Franco,
I can totally understand that you want to improve something.
The question is just what...
Personally, for example, I find the “nervous” display of the second parameter annoying.
That's not really necessary, because it's all just calculations.
Even when you consider how small the currents and voltages being measured are, you still feel compelled to use components with lower noise levels.
I am reluctant to do so because I am not familiar with the calibration routine and do not have sufficient references for it.
There are two sealed trimming potentiometers on the board—what are they for?
How can they be reset, and to what value?
The circuit diagram is missing.
Do you know what I mean?
Sure, you can try to make the power supply “quieter” without having to recalibrate the meter.
But to do that, you would first have to observe the voltages to see if there really is a lot of interference/ripple.
However, I think that's just tinkering around without getting to the heart of the matter, which should be left untouched as long as there is no possibility of recalibration.

[pizzigri]

Heh. Just like the (in)famous FY6900, I tinkered with that thing and at the end for my mental health and overall sanity sold it and just got myself a proper Rigol unit that works as advertised…
Learned lots, I have to give the hated thing that at least.
 In the end I’ll just either have to save enough for a “real” LCR meter - which I cannot afford anyway- or make do with the 4410 which is not so bad anyway.
It’s just that…. Ehhhh…. The DER-EE is really good I guess and I had maybe unrealistic expectations?
Out of the 4410.

[Martin72]

The ET4410 isn't bad; I'd rank it above the DE5000.
If only because it is better equipped, with selectable output resistance, DC bias, 16 measurement frequencies, etc.
And unless you happen to get a “Monday device,” it serves its purpose very well.
To make it “better” or to buy a “better” one, you would have to prioritize your personal requirements.
What is important to me, what does the device have to be able to do?
Personally, I have my doubts about the reliability of the ET44 at frequencies above 10 kHz.
I also sometimes find the ESR value displayed suspicious.
However, these are things I will clarify with component measurements, for which data sheets are available.
Because if you don't know the data or the circumstances under which it was recorded, you're just stumbling around in the dark and have to believe the meter.
Naturally, you would then trust a Hioki or TongHui more than an ET44....
But we don't have that, so the ET44 has to prove that it can be trusted.
I had already carried out dozens of measurement series, and at least up to a measurement frequency of 1 kHz, it behaves no differently than much more expensive devices.
But that's not rocket science.
Things get more interesting at higher frequencies.
This is where more expensive devices show off their more complex design.
I'll have to test this again with the ET44.
All in all, you can hardly get a better device for the money at the moment, that's something I can say with certainty.
The next higher price/quality jump is only to be expected at around $800–$1,000.

[Martin72]

Can the measured values be trusted, e.g. for larger capacities?
This question came up in the ET35 thread, but I would like to address it here because I no longer have an ET35 (I will link to it later).
I was surprised to discover that I didn't have a larger capacitor at home – but not anymore. Today, I received an electrolytic capacitor from Nippon Chemicon that I bought on Amazon.
10000µF/63V. I made sure that there was a data sheet for it, otherwise measuring it would be pointless.
The few values specified in the data sheet refer to a measurement frequency of 120 Hz – very good, every meter should be able to manage that.
According to the data sheet, the capacity may vary by 20% at 120Hz, and the loss angle is also specified: at 63V, it must not exceed 0.15.
ESR is missing, but this can be derived if the loss angle is known.
In this case:
ESR = loss angle/2*pi*f*C
The values used are:
0.15/2*3.14*120*0.01F = 19.89mOhm ESR max.

In summary, the electrolytic capacitor must be between 8000 and 12000 µF, have a maximum loss angle of 0.15, resulting in a maximum ESR of 19.89 mOhm.
Let's measure the actual electrolytic capacitor.
ET4410, warmed up for 30 minutes, open/short calibration performed.
Measurement frequency 120 Hz, measurement voltage 1 Vrms.
Once with DC bias 1.5 V.

The results vary slightly, but this can be disregarded.
Measured 8920µF, DF 0.068, ESR 10mOhm
8920µF is -10.8% of the nominal value, which is well within the tolerance range and therefore OK.
The DF of 0.068 is significantly below the maximum value, as is the ESR, so everything is fine.
Now we could sit down and calculate whether ESR and Co are correct. We'll do that once, even though it's not necessary, because either the correct calculations are stored in the software or everything would be wrong.
Nevertheless, let's take a look at ESR(Current values taken from the DF picture):
0.068/2*pi*120*0.00892F = 10.1 mOhm
That fits...

This was a practical example of value determination based on an existing data sheet.
If you now run through this with different capacitor values and types and the meter always remains within the range specified in the data sheet, the probability is low that it will display “nonsense” for a type without a data sheet.

Martin

[Furna]

Could Martin72 measurement be repeated?
I ordered from Amazon an electrolytic capacitor from Nippon Chemicon 10000µF/63V
The datasheet has been already attached by Martin72 in the previous post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg5902344/#msg5902344

I named the images the same as Martin72's:
My capacitor has a slightly better C ...
... higher D ...
... higher ESR ...
... as well higher Impedance ...

D and ESR are out of spec

But wait! Capacitor arrived already damaged!
Luckly Amazon accepts returns and refunds are easily granted; a new capacitor has been ordered already!

I will wait to measure the new capacitor; anyway calculation fits here as well already.