My Advanced Realistic Humanoid Robots Project

[Xena E]

Arrogance is acceptable where there is true ability.

True personal ability is only judged by a person's peers, not themselves.

An ignorant person will claim they have no peers.

X

You're right about a person's ability can only be judged by their peers, I wouldn't say arrogance is acceptable, were there is true ability. A competant person wouldn't be arrogant, because they should be aware of their limitations.

The statement trifecta is to illustrate the acceptable reason for being arrogant, but often it indicates a deluded ignorance, usually born from some personal insecurity or inferiority.

Often accomplished engineers are seen as arrogant because they have no time to have their motives continually questioned, when their abilities are already proven.

Pick one to apply here.

X

[ebastler]

Being fair is sticking to the facts.  I was clear I had read their webpage.

Fair enough, thanks. I didn't recall that part of the webpage, and only saw you mention the page with regard to the "other" companies OP supposedly runs.

Ok, the robot effort is not much of a business at all. Does declaring it a "company" allow you to tax-deduct your expenses? (It would do so over here. But not for 10 years without revenue -- the tax inspector would have decided years ago that this is obviously not a business but a hobby.) 

[joeqsmith]

Being fair is sticking to the facts.  I was clear I had read their webpage.

Fair enough, thanks. I didn't recall that part of the webpage, and only saw you mention the page with regard to the "other" companies OP supposedly runs.

Ok, the robot effort is not much of a business at all. Does declaring it a "company" allow you to tax-deduct your expenses? (It would do so over here. But not for 10 years without revenue -- the tax inspector would have decided years ago that this is obviously not a business but a hobby.)

I have no way of knowing anything about their businesses beyond what they have posted.  That's why I had asked them. 

I had formed a Class S corporation.  Yes, it did allow me various tax deductions.  Yes, I had to show a profit.  Yes, I worked with the local IRS to make sure  to avoid any problems.   I would guess that this particular company is a Class S as well and one of the other two is a Class C.    Personally, I don't really care about those details, but am interested in reading more about their other two businesses. 

[xrunner]

Being fair is sticking to the facts.  I was clear I had read their webpage.

Fair enough, thanks. I didn't recall that part of the webpage, and only saw you mention the page with regard to the "other" companies OP supposedly runs.

Ok, the robot effort is not much of a business at all. Does declaring it a "company" allow you to tax-deduct your expenses? (It would do so over here. But not for 10 years without revenue -- the tax inspector would have decided years ago that this is obviously not a business but a hobby.)

Wait what! I must have missed this. This project is one of his companies?

I was going easy on him because I thought it was a hobby. Easy ... up until now that is.

[vk6zgo]

"Accomplished engineers" are not immune to blunders.

[Kim Christensen]

The reduction is explained in this photo: 

Well actually one problem with the two tube solution though is creating that perfect inner diameter outer tube.  You'd need to use a lathe or drill press to create that and I don't have the former nor desire to have it and I have never successfully used my drill press to date.  I bought it in case I ever MUST have it for something.  But so far I've successfully avoided using it.  I will only use it if I have no other choice.

Perhaps if you'd learned to use a proper drill press, and learned about belt drives, you'd know about the need to be able to adjust and maintain belt tension.(Some of the pulleys need to be movable) Same for strings. A string with slack is not going grip the pulley.
Or if you'd ever been on a sailboat and used a winch to trim the sails, you'd know that you have to maintain tension on the rope so it doesn't slip on the winch. Or have self tailing winches that maintain rope tension for you.

Adjusting the tension lever on a drill press:

[joeqsmith]

In a recent lapse of judgement, I was watching TV and it happened to but one of those court shows.  It was interesting as one party was talking about their business.  The judge started to probe about the business and their federal ID numbers.   Turns out, they had never incorporated and were just calling it a business.   

OP will read this and suggest I am implying they have not incorporated, which I have stated nothing of the sort.  It is hard for me to believe this particular business would show any profit.  I assume this is why they are flooding so many forums, trying to stir up funding from unsuspecting people.   The whole topic of religion provides some insight into the targeted group.  Dealing with the scammers on this site, they have a pattern of getting very defensive about their work.   I don't see this being any different.  OP would have been better off not engaging as I now see this project as nothing more than a scam and would move it to the dodgy area.   But that's just MO.

[joeqsmith]

"Accomplished engineers" are not immune to blunders.

I have far more failures under my belt than successes.  It's just the nature of the path I took.   

[artbyrobot]

As to have I tested it - no, I literally just came up with this pulley method around the time I initially posted it on this thread so maybe within the past few weeks just before I started the Dinah Bot tangent side quest (that I later canceled).  I am now making the prototype and this prototype WILL be tested.  Saying it should be tested BEFORE I make it is folly IMO.  Xrunner is complaining a prototype hasn't been tested prior to being finished.  Prototypes should be finished and THEN be tested and it is not finished.  I see no issue here.  Xrunner is concerned I might waste a couple hours securing everything down well on a prototype that takes 10+ hours to make.  Who cares.  2 hours is peanuts.  The test can go on while it is mounted in place well in a full implementation exactly where it will be located in the final usage.  This way I am test fitting it to ensure it fits well and fits ON the robot well and does not collide with anything or need form factor adjustments which all are PART of the overall test, not just movement is being tested but also fitment and mounting style and method.  This is a field test then.  This test is also being formed assuming it will work with a VERY HIGH confidence it will work and not need to be redesigned much if at all.

[artbyrobot]

As to arrogance, I view arrogance to be a word carrying a negative connotation similar to pride.  I reject any claim I am prideful or arrogant whatsoever and I reject the recent claim that I'm self righteous.  See previous thread for my explanation on the latter as that is off topic.  As for this thread, what I can say is confidence as an engineer, a confidence earned by being successful on countless previous project and never failing and never giving up and always seeing your vision come to life with relative ease no matter how difficult is not arrogance.  It is merely well backed faith in one's abilities that was earned from past performance.  That simple.  Nothing negative about it.  Nothing harmful to others about it.  If anything it should merely inspire others to greatness in their respective fields.

[artbyrobot]

saying thumb tacks is poor worksmanship is ignorant and false.  They are stout, welded thumb tacks mass produced, very economical, and give you the flat plane with vertical cylindrical metal stout outcropping needed for a pulley.  It is a ready made solution far superior to reinventing the wheel by making my own similar assembly and in so doing, ostracizing those who lack the machinery to follow along if they were to repeat my steps.  That would be a poor choice for an open source hardware robot.  There is nothing wrong with choosing thumbtacks.  Hand cutting the discs is fine as well.  They were very precisely cut and should work great.  There are not serious sharp points that will cut the string IMO.  And if I see any, I can file it with a nail file.  Many of these already have been filed to tweak size, and I can easily file to tweak roundness.  In fact, I can file them very easily when testing the whole system as they'll be moving and I'd merely need to hold the file in place and they would smooth out quickly as they turn against the file.

[artbyrobot]

As to this being a business or not, it's nuanced.  In some sense, it's just a hobby.  However, because I post videos about it to youtube and have monetization of videos switched on, I bring in money. 

[artbyrobot]

Perhaps if you'd learned to use a proper drill press, and learned about belt drives, you'd know about the need to be able to adjust and maintain belt tension.

This setup is not the same as a belt drive though.  A belt drive has a fixed circumference of the belt and the pulleys have to be adjusted to create belt tension.  In my setup, it is a variable length string that is wound up on both ends.  Tension will be created throughout the system when the system is placed under load.  Every single string should be pulled taught immediately when under load as every pulley moves freely and is wrapped by segments of string.  The string wraps will cinch tight immediately when load is placed.  So no, these pulleys do not need to be tensioned by a belt tensioner.  This really is not a belt system at all.  Completely diffent concept and completely different set of challenges and factors.

[artbyrobot]

It is hard for me to believe this particular business would show any profit.

Would you consider amazon.com to be a business or youtube?  They did not show profit and recorded losses for many years.  Just because something operates in the red does not indicate it is not a business.  If by profit you mean revenue, it does show revenue. 

[xrunner]

As to have I tested it - no, I literally just came up with this pulley method around the time I initially posted it on this thread so maybe within the past few weeks just before I started the Dinah Bot tangent side quest (that I later canceled). 

What are you talking about? I see drawings and discussions of pulleys going back two years on your videos (maybe longer but I don't need to go back farther). It makes no difference if they are exactly the same or different from a tweak to the design or not. You've never tested them with a physical test bench setup - you do not have one to show us. You even admitted in one post you were saving it for some grand orgasmic feel-good moment when you were going to test it on the robot for the first time. Wasting time mounting it on a robot is folly because you haven't proven it will work.

Do you log on and just decide to counter each post whether they have merit or not, to "prove" your mental brilliance can't be challenged, or something?

I am now making the prototype and this prototype WILL be tested.  Saying it should be tested BEFORE I make it is folly IMO.  Xrunner is complaining a prototype hasn't been tested prior to being finished.  Prototypes should be finished and THEN be tested and it is not finished.  I see no issue here. 

Oh my gosh, what are you going on about? The prototype we're talking about now is the motor with pulleys (whatever design) and the system with a weight, controller and power supply and control software. You have to date never tested this prototype system - AT ALL. Why are you mixing this up with other parts of the system?

Xrunner is concerned I might waste a couple hours securing everything down well on a prototype that takes 10+ hours to make.  Who cares.  2 hours is peanuts.

But before with the MOSFET you complained that bending the tabs was faster, and when somebody suggested at least using a Dremel tool to make a clean cut, you claimed it was "too slow". It would have taken 30 seconds to cut it off with a Dremel tool. So in that case something simple  is too slow but now 2 hours is peanuts. All you do is counter each person here no matter what they say, no matter how you contradict yourself from earlier. Does that bolster your feelings of importance to the world?

...  This test is also being formed assuming it will work with a VERY HIGH confidence it will work and not need to be redesigned much if at all.

And this is your problem. You aren't testing the prototype motor / pulley system so your claim -

assuming it will work with a VERY HIGH confidence it will work and not need to be redesigned much if at all

is BS. You don't know that and you can ask any other member here how many times they've thought the same thing in their designs and didn't test, only to find out they were wrong. That's why the prototype is TESTED. This is typical Dunning-Kruger stuff.

[artbyrobot]

What are you talking about? I see drawings and discussions of pulleys going back two years on your videos

Those were archimedes style pulleys that were moving the entire pulley, these are turn in place style pulleys, an entirely different concept.  The former I did test and told you all I tested it and told you all they were having snag issues and how I fixed those issues and once fixed, I then got consistent non-snagging and was able to test under load.  I did mutliple load tests to failure and repaired the failures.  So the testing and debugging phase was already happening for the archimedes style pulleys and was not skipped.  I did not show these tests, but I reported them - my findings and results.  This new style of pulley design that is mounted in place with thumb tacks I have not tested nor could do so yet as I am not done building the prototype.  Testing will ensue on portions of it shortly.  I will report my findings as I go.

You've never tested them with a physical test bench setup

so this is a lie.  Not only did I test the archimedes style pulleys but I reported my findings and even showed pictures of my fixes with explanations for what I was fixing.  I was testing and tweaking the design accordingly.  I even showed pictures of intended future design improvements to the pulleys that I was planning.  So either you forgot all of this or are just being deceptive.  My last thread that was locked has those posts on it and you were an active participant throughout that thread..

You even admitted in one post you were saving it for some grand orgasmic feel-good moment when you were going to test it on the robot for the first time.

no.  What I referred to there is I was waiting until I had a proper motor controller, microcontroller, downgearing, cable routing, all set up and perfect before I tested them all moving the finger.  This would be a full stack of hardware test all working together.  That does NOT mean I haven't tested finger movement by hand.  I did.  That does not mean I haven't tested the pulley downgearing system by hand and under load (10lb dumbbell).  I did.  I can test each system individually and perfect it before I test them all together as a whole system of systems.  The latter I'm waiting to do until each subsystem is perfected.

Wasting time mounting it on a robot is folly because you haven't proven it will work.

I disagree.  Mounting the systems where they will be used is a good idea because it helps you see their fitment while in use and while being tested which can be very informative and help you decide on any necessary tweaks that may be needed relating to form factor and placement issues and fitment issues.  So this way you are testing not only function but these other aspects too.  Testing the system off the robot arm is not necessary or beneficial in any way.  It also does not save much if any time.  And does not lend insight into fitment and related issues.  So it is actually inferior and would be folly to do so.

The prototype we're talking about now is the motor with pulleys (whatever design) and the system with a weight, controller and power supply and control software.

no, you don't have to test the pulleys using a motor.  That is completely unnecessary.  You can just pull one end by hand and put the load on the other end.  No need to use a motor at all for that.

But before with the MOSFET you complained that bending the tabs was faster

yes, and here's the difference:  if you are just doing a single test, a few minutes time to use the dremel is fine.  But if you are planning to snap off tabs for every single mosfet for every single motor in a robot with 300 or more motors, then that few minutes compared to 15 seconds matters.  And if you plan to build many robots, it really matters alot.  That's the difference. 

That's why the prototype is TESTED. This is typical Dunning-Kruger stuff.

I have not claimed I'm not testing everything.  I have consistently tested everything and reported results in this thread and the last.  I have consistently stated my plans to test everything.  So you suggesting I don't plan to test any prototypes is just false and misleading.  You and others here have demonstrated the Dunning-Kruger effect in your ability to nitpick my project when you yourself seem quite clueless and overestimating your abilities to assess my strategies and methods.  You've demonstrated gross incompetence at this but believe your abilities to do this are without equal.

[Xena E]

"Accomplished engineers" are not immune to blunders.

This is correct if they are working outside their field of accomplishment, but then have no excuse for arrogance.

Every living person has negative traits, the field of engineering has a few more quirky individuals than most.

Persons with psychological arrogant tendencies are those who have an unjustified exaggerated sense of their importance or abilities.

As to arrogance, I view arrogance to be a word carrying a negative connotation similar to pride.  I reject any claim I am prideful or arrogant whatsoever and I reject the recent claim that I'm self righteous. ...

Then why post this:-

(Attachment Link)

[wobbly]

I wish people would stop feeding this troll.  Please stop engaging with it, PLEASE!

The fact that it's somehow managing to keep so many otherwise intelligent people's attention and take literally nothing onboard and grow from their rational input is simple evidence that the troll is playing us all.

Every moment that a valued user spends responding to this troll is time that they are not interacting with the rest of the valued EEVBlog community.  This is IMHO the best electronics forum on the internet.  Why are we squandering that?

Let this thread die, pull the plug already!  Engaging with this troll is almost literally life-support for it.  He's doing the same things on MANY other forums!

[artbyrobot]

Then why post this:-

I have passed the Dunning-Kreuger time window and have grown in skill and experience and ability and capability vastly and already demonstrated prowess in the fields related to topic for years.  This is past the early days of just assuming I can pull it off but maybe over-estimating ability.  My ability has already been put to the test and proven time and time again on this project.

[xrunner]

I wish people would stop feeding this troll.  Please stop engaging with it, PLEASE!

If you don't like it go away, block it, or ignore it. That is not our problem it's YOUR problem.

[wobbly]

If you don't like it go away, block it, or ignore it. That is not our problem it's YOUR problem.

Well, it's a community problem as I explained.  Also, where is the "block" button?

[xrunner]

If you don't like it go away, block it, or ignore it. That is not our problem it's YOUR problem.

Well, it's a community problem as I explained.  Also, where is the "block" button?

No it isn't. My TV has hundreds of channels I don't like. Do I keep tuning into the channels I don't like because of the content. No. I don't go back.

Same here, don't read the thread if you don't want to, if you do not like it. How much discipline does that take?

[Xena E]

I wish people would stop feeding this troll.  Please stop engaging with it, PLEASE!

Leave him alone...

Now listen here, He's not the Messiah troll, he's just a very naughty boy.

 

[KerimF]

During my rather long life, I didn't meet even one adult person who saw himself wrong in whatever he used to believe. This is why, I used not to argue. I may just add what I have in mind which could be related to the discussed topic of interest.

I also noticed that a human, by design, cannot change his deep nature. At best, he can change the path, once a while, that lets him fulfill its needs better (the needs of his deep nature). But a human is also gifted to play any role, one may imagine, for one reason or another (see the great actors at Hollywood, for example).

[Analog Kid]

saying thumb tacks is poor worksmanship is ignorant and false.  They are stout, welded thumb tacks mass produced, very economical, and give you the flat plane with vertical cylindrical metal stout outcropping needed for a pulley.

So you've apparently never seen a factory-made thumbtack come apart, the head separated from the pin?