Author Topic: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510  (Read 40924 times)

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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #150 on: October 24, 2025, 09:38:01 am »
I know they sell a kit for converting DMM7510-RACK and DMM7510-NFP-RACK version to ones with handles and bumpers.
It’s called the:
“2450-BenchKit Benchtop Kit”.
Part Number: 071315803

I haven’t been able to find it for sale so I am guessing this is a special request item directly from Keithley. I was looking into this since I am missing the rear bumper and the front one is beat up.

The 2450-BenchKit Benchtop Kit or the bumpers / handle can easily be ordered from Keithley / Tektronix.
See PDF

I had ordered such a kit before and it was directly available from Tektronix Germany.
And from time to time, you can find the bumpers on ebay.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
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Online exe

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #151 on: October 27, 2025, 08:00:41 pm »
Hey, in case you wondered what happens when someone tries to buy the lowest price DMM7510 from China from a shadiest seller on ebay.  It came in a suspiciously light and small box, but... All good and well packaged. I just expected it to be bigger and heavier. Cosmetically it's good. Doesn't look like new and shiny, but not major scratches on the body, front panel is clean, no scratches. Buttons press... wierdly. They feel scratchy, all of them.

Anyway, first measurements.
After 5 minutes warmup, measures -5.3uV from 6.923992V (as written on TEN399), then slowly drifted to -6.7uV. So, definitely an improvement! I haven't don't ACAL yet, it's still 47 minutes till end of warmup. I also use cheap banana plugs soldered to some solid core wire from flea market, I don't know if this matters, but after replacing crocodile clips I got +7uV. I'll report if there is a change after ACAL. Though, since the device was only adjusted once in 2017, I don't expect absolute precision.

There a single cal sticker on the device, saying "calibrated 2025-10-20". But the device was sent to me on Oct 21.... Anyway, google translate says "Calibrator: Sun Junwei" and "Diboer Metrology and Testing Institute". I wonder if I can request them a cal cert...  ;D

The device came with 1.6.3d firmware which corresponds to year 2017. Also first and last calibration/adjustment date is on 2017.

The fan noise is quite high. It's not annoying but this is the only piece of equipment that I can hear. I'll definitely will do something about it. Didn't notice transformer ham.

As of the seller, I'm a bit uncertain what rating to give him. May be no feedback, or may be 4 out of 5, as he didn't send me pics beforehand, and also original listing had protection bampers and handle on it. WDYT guys?

Thank you guys for your help 💖, I hope 7.5 will last me for a while  ;D
 
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Offline tonyalbus

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #152 on: October 27, 2025, 08:22:27 pm »
Looks great to me!
well done... must have been a scary time to wait for it :)
great it all worked out!  :-+

i usually just give 5 star if it arrives, looks sort of as the picture and works..
they usually mention the picture is as reference anyway with multiple items.
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #153 on: October 27, 2025, 08:24:15 pm »
transformer ham.

As of the seller, I'm a bit uncertain what rating to give him. May be no feedback, or may be 4 out of 5, as he didn't send me pics beforehand, and also original listing had protection bampers and handle on it. WDYT guys?

Thank you guys for your help 💖, I hope 7.5 will last me for a while  ;D

Not sure how appetizing that sounds, but I'll try it I guess.
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Online Martin72Topic starter

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #154 on: October 27, 2025, 08:54:30 pm »
@exe:

Welcome to the 7.5 club... ;)

Quote
Didn't notice transformer ham.

You won't be able to do that either; they're switching power supplies.
Calibration:
I received confirmation of receipt from the laboratory yesterday, so now it's a matter of waiting.....
 
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #155 on: October 27, 2025, 10:05:35 pm »
I received confirmation of receipt from the laboratory yesterday, so now it's a matter of waiting.....

Ooooh, I know somebody is excited to get his paperwork. ;) ;)
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Online Martin72Topic starter

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #156 on: October 27, 2025, 10:07:34 pm »
A colleague joked today, what if it fails?
Brr....Boy, leave it... ;)
 
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #157 on: October 27, 2025, 10:23:57 pm »
A colleague joked today, what if it fails?
Brr....Boy, leave it... ;)

 :-DD
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Offline kmoonwalker

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #158 on: October 28, 2025, 02:51:39 am »
A colleague joked today, what if it fails?
Brr....Boy, leave it... ;)

charge him a bad charm fee xD
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #159 on: October 28, 2025, 08:53:13 am »
Congrats, glad it arrived.
Be sure to check everything as I found out today dong a full function test that my 10A current rear input is dead. I decided to check everything in the rear before dropping it off for a calibrations. Explains the different fuses mine came with.
Current shunt is measuring 50mOhms so thats good. Relays clicking, it’s failing with digital also. I have a feeling it’s a MOV or GDT since the selector switch has one of each in the path from front to rear. More likely one of the surface mount MOV’s.

I think I will have to find out how good my seller is on honoring the 1 year warrenty. They did finally get back to me on the missing bumper and said it was a mistake by shipping department. So at least they are responding.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2025, 08:10:52 pm by Scottjd »
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Offline Scottjd

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #160 on: October 28, 2025, 10:18:44 am »
Well that was fast, he responded right away. He got on a topic asking how much it would be to repair. Hi reason is the cost of shipping back to china is to much and he would loose everything. I have my doubts on that reason, but it’s an idea.
Has anyone heard of a company called June Company, or JuenUSA (June USA.com). Seems like they do a lot of industrial repairs and if I understand it correctly it’s a flat rate or $245 and might include the calibration after the repair. Heck, I was going to pay more for just the calibration.
Any thought on the matter are welcomed.
Just like to see if I can find that magic smoke, its magical.
 

Online Hydron

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #161 on: October 28, 2025, 10:32:59 am »
IIRC the DMM7510 (and maybe DMM6500) do some compensation during warmup to come into working range quicker. Maybe the jumping you're seeing is something related to that? That said I'd expect to see similar gain errors on other ranges after auto-cal...

If it's getting sent back or sent for repair/cal you could always try an artifact calibration (this meter just needs 10V/short/10k, right?) on the voltage ranges (assuming it lets you do voltage only) to see if it sorts it out.
 

Online Kleinstein

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #162 on: October 28, 2025, 10:44:12 am »
The reading just after turn on is not significant. It is normal for a meter to take some time for warm up and only than read correct.
A wrong reading in the 10 V range could also be from a mistake in the adjustment (e.g. too cold or bad ref. source). Shipping by air could also be stress to some parts and cause drift.
It could still absolutely make sense to check for excessive leakage at the input. A good test for this is watching the drift with some 10 nF of PP or PS capacitor at the input. Input bias can be calculated from I = C dU/dt.

For the current ranges the current path should be reasonable easy to follow, even without a schematics. I would no expect a MOV (even if bad) to effect the 10 A range. It is more a thing of relay contacts, the fuse, a cable or trace damage. Of cause use the separate terminal for 10 A.
 
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Online Hydron

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #163 on: October 28, 2025, 10:48:58 am »
I think the 10A input is pretty simple if it's anything like the DMM6500 - no range switching etc, probably just a shunt and fuses in the current path, and Kelvin sensing across the shunt into the rest of the meter. Are you able to open it all or do you have those tamper evident stickers on it from the seller?
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #164 on: October 28, 2025, 12:05:09 pm »
Hydron- Kleinstein
I think the 6500 has a separate boards for current and the 7510 is all on one board. But I also think your correct, I did read the calibration procedure yesterday and it seems to only need a short, 10V and 10K stable resistor. I would need to buy a short.
I do have those warrenty stickers, but was also told I could remove them and it would not affect the warrenty.

I did take a look, only on the top of the board. On the rear/front switching path it also switches between a smd MOV and a gas discharge tube to help prevent further surge damage and transient spikes. It has a MOV and GST on each leg, a set for front and one set for back inputs.
Testing a MOV can be challenging from what I know. I was guessing the easiest way to find out is to isolate it from the board and see if the others readings fall back into spec. I wouldn't do that unless I had the OK from the seller in writing. But man am I tempted since one is reading a resistance of 2.8M Ohms and I don’t believe I should be able to read any resistant on it with my fluke 289. The other one I can’t get a reading on. I looked them up, they are V510SM7 MOV by Littlefuse.

I manually triggered every relay since they are only 3VDC at 30mA and they all clicked, but again carbon build up inside the relay is still possible from a massive surge. I couldn’t confirm the current shunt resistance for the 7510, but if it’s the same one thats in the 6500 then I was expecting 5mOhm, and thats what I got.

Although I did restart it to see that effect with the offset, it was on for 2 hours and warmed up with the exception of the restart. The PDVS 2 Mini V2 is only a week old and was also warmed up. But I also saw it with my old DYI reference I built years ago, and a week old DMMCheck Plus r8.

As for if the offset calibration and rear 10A input damage is related, I am not sure. I was just thinking outside the box. With a meter this sensitive it wouldn't take much leakage to affect the milivolt range. 

I will say the seller seems to be honest and up front, thats refreshing. They said it was tested, and when I asked how that was missed he replied later with an answer saying his supplier tested everything but that rear 10A and it was overlooked.
I would buy from this guy again.

Just like to see if I can find that magic smoke, its magical.
 

Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #165 on: October 28, 2025, 01:13:00 pm »
Congrats, glad it arrived.
Be sure to check everything as I found out today dong a full function test that my 10A current rear input is dead. I decided to check everything in the rear before dropping it off for a calibrations. Explains the different fuses mine came with.
Current shunt is measuring 50mOhms so thats good. Relays clicking, it’s failing with digital also. I have a feeling it’s a MOV or GDT since the selector switch has one of each in the path from front to rear. More likely one of the surface mount MOV’s.

But then also noticed this weird behavior when I was testing. Now I really wonder if a calibration would do any good.
I put this video up temporarily to show this in this thread.
https://youtube.com/shorts/lc3F97x0BXM?si=Zlk2gyX4DFPZrA4-

I think I will have to find out how good my seller is on honoring the 1 year warrenty. They did finally get back to me on the missing bumper and said it was a mistake by shipping department. So at least they are responding.

Voltage at startup should be ignored, even if you just reset the meter after running for a couple hours. I would leave the meter running for a week before you think too seriously about calibration and accuracy on that level.

You also have to consider the environment during testing and how that differs from the calibration of the voltage source. Only if the temperature and humidity are identical between the voltage source and your room, the question becomes which device is in or out of calibration.

If you want to send your DMM7510 for calibration, try and find a lab that also includes adjustment (corrections).

Thanks,
Josh
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Online Kleinstein

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #166 on: October 28, 2025, 03:57:40 pm »
There may be high value resistors in parallel to some of the MOVs. This is a common combination with a GDT in series.
I would rarely expect leakage with the MOVs on a precision meter. These meters are rarely used with high voltage / high power.

The relays from current range switching should not see massive overload. There diode bridge should normally limit the maximim voltage to soem 2-3 V and the fuse would limit the peak current.
Just to avoid a misunderstanding: how is the 10 A range not working:  too high a resistance and thus no current (like an open fuse) or is it just not reading anything sensible. This would be quite different faults. With the extra terminal for the 10 A range there should not even be a relay in the path and the 10A range is via the rear terminal only and thus no front-rear switch either.
 

Online Hydron

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #167 on: October 28, 2025, 04:51:07 pm »
10A range is direct, through only a fuse and the shunt itself:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/16875605107/in/photostream/

I'm assuming there is a kelvin connection to the other side of the shunt not easily seen in that pic. While it is on the main board unlike the DMM6500, I think the concept (and probably parts used) is the same, without even a shunt diode bridge (probably of no use across such a low value shunt resistor).

Might be a bit tricky to trace where the kelvin sense goes from there unfortunately :(
 

Online exe

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #168 on: October 28, 2025, 06:36:16 pm »
But then also noticed this weird behavior when I was testing. Now I really wonder if a calibration would do any good.
I put this video up temporarily to show this in this thread.
https://youtube.com/shorts/lc3F97x0BXM?si=Zlk2gyX4DFPZrA4-

Hey, Scott, may I suggest checking the calibration menu? Just to see how many times and when it was calibrated. It could be previous owner did something with it.

I'd also try to swap leads and see what you get. That should also reveal if there is any thermal emf.

Also, on my unit default settings, imo, suboptimal. I put 5PLC and line sync.

The fact that it measures higher than expected and proportional is kinda good, imo.

BTW, lastly, you absolutely sure your tiny little device outputs right voltage? I assume you cross-checked that with other DMMs you have.

EDIT: and set impedance to AUTO, not 10MEG.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2025, 06:41:15 pm by exe »
 

Online exe

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #169 on: October 28, 2025, 07:42:22 pm »
(I just realized thermal emf won't explain proportional offset)
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #170 on: October 28, 2025, 09:20:58 pm »
Sorry for the long post, tried to address everyone in single reply.

These meters are rarely used with high voltage / high power.
I was able to trace the stickers on mine to a big battery company that makes cells and packs for cars.

Just to avoid a misunderstanding: how is the 10 A range not working:  too high a resistance and thus no current (like an open fuse) or is it just not reading anything sensible. This would be quite different faults. With the extra terminal for the 10 A range there should not even be a relay in the path and the 10A range is via the rear terminal only and thus no front-rear switch either.
Seems to be not reading anything. It will drop my power supply directly into constant current. My PSU has a meter for the output and I can see the voltage drop to mV and acts just like if I short the PSU out. That’s why my first thought was the current sense resistor but it read correctly, although I didn’t think about checking the sense wire.

10A range is direct, through only a fuse and the shunt itself:
Seems to be the same one. It measures the same also at 5mΩ when I checked it with a kelvin miliohm meter.

I'm assuming there is a kelvin connection to the other side of the shunt not easily seen in that pic. While it is on the main board unlike the DMM6500, I think the concept (and probably parts used) is the same, without even a shunt diode bridge (probably of no use across such a low value shunt resistor).
Might be a bit tricky to trace where the kelvin sense goes from there unfortunately :(
Looking at pic comparing the units it looks like the same one. The sense wire is one of the things that goes to the rear/front switch, from there I am not sure. I didn’t dig that far.

Voltage at startup should be ignored, even if you just reset the meter after running for a couple hours. I would leave the meter running for a week before you think too seriously about calibration and accuracy on that level.
But, but, but…. I want to…… lol. It was almost at a 5 days running with only a few restarts, firmware update. But it had a cool down with a power outage last night for 2 hours.

You also have to consider the environment during testing and how that differs from the calibration of the voltage source. Only if the temperature and humidity are identical between the voltage source and your room, the question becomes which device is in or out of calibration.
Understood, and all valid points. My temp and humidity hasn't been that far off from the PDVS 2. The DMMCheck has a lower ambient temp for cal, both also new as of last week. Third source is DYI and was calibrated with my 34401A after the meter was calibrated 10 years ago to track its drift.  I wouldn’t expect that the last 2 digits to match on any of the sources with the DMM7510, but that 4th zero I would think should given its accuracy and the sources used like I have seen on so many other videos and on my 34401A.

If you want to send your DMM7510 for calibration, try and find a lab that also includes adjustment (corrections).
Thanks, that’s an idea I didn’t consider, or even know was an option. For now I am holding off on the calibration since he’s talking about sending me a shipping label to return it for a refund. I don't want to deal with looking for another and custom fees again but might not have a choice. I’ve learned to really like this meter, so if it goes back I might just buy one in the US thats already calibrated for the sale and put the extra money in.

Hey, Scott, may I suggest checking the calibration menu? Just to see how many times and when it was calibrated. It could be previous owner did something with it.
It only has the manufacturing date cal and no auto cal shown. I thought maybe I got lucky with a unit that is less than 4 years old but now I think I know why it’s younger with the 10A part blown out.

I'd also try to swap leads and see what you get. That should also reveal if there is any thermal emf.
Also, on my unit default settings, imo, suboptimal. I put 5PLC and line sync.
BTW, lastly, you absolutely sure your tiny little device outputs right voltage? I assume you cross-checked that with other DMMs you have.
EDIT: and set impedance to AUTO, not 10MEG.
Yup, multiple sources, multiple cables, short and shielded ones also. There is a suggested procedure in the manual for mV DC readings, I think it’s 10PLC and repeat filter 100, impedance at AUTO in lower ranges. I have found that 5PCL is good enough and 30 to 50 repeat filter, but I have done both. The 1V range and above the filter at 10 seem to grieve the same results, and 5PLC is ok in my opinion.

Just like to see if I can find that magic smoke, its magical.
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #171 on: October 28, 2025, 10:11:26 pm »
I know for sure that over the last week and definitely see the value in this meter. It can replace my PicoAmmeter, my mΩ meters, and the 34401A all in one while also seeing the self drain on battery cells easier and faster. Something I would defiantly use in my testing and could have used a few months back on a battery powered IoT device project I was testing and others over the last year.

I ran an experiment checking its uA abilities and it’s impressive. It kept up with the PicoAmmeter that still seems ridiculously accurate even today for some reason but with the logging, graphing and added features. Also confirmed the 1mA range is off on the PicoAmmeter a little, but I had already suspected that. It gave stable enough readings down to +00.000005uA, below that would flicker on both devices and well…..noise is a thing at those readings.  It was still a fun experiment to run.

I’m defiantly sold on it, so if the seller doesn’t like the repair estimate and it gets returned I will probably buy a local US one to avoid those tariffs and that is already calibrated and just spend that little extra up front. It’s a great meter, and about time I updated.

I appreciate everyone’s perspective, advice and suggestions. I think I am in a holding pattern for now waiting on the seller and a repair quote if that was the real price for the repair and calibration. But part of me wonders what else might have been damaged during the event it obviously took on and a return might be the best option. I have only focused on extensive testing with resistance, low current and that 1V and 10V range up until now.
Just like to see if I can find that magic smoke, its magical.
 
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Online Martin72Topic starter

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #172 on: October 28, 2025, 10:26:12 pm »
I am curious to see if the calibration will go through without any problems.
If so, then I have spent relatively little money on a very good measuring device.
During the time I have been working with it, it has become clear that it is probably the best measuring device I have ever treated myself to.
If it passes the calibration successfully, I will have a good reference for everything below that.
Somehow, that's a good feeling for measurement nerds. ;)

Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #173 on: October 28, 2025, 10:34:42 pm »
If you want to send your DMM7510 for calibration, try and find a lab that also includes adjustment (corrections).
Thanks, that’s an idea I didn’t consider, or even know was an option. For now I am holding off on the calibration since he’s talking about sending me a shipping label to return it for a refund. I don't want to deal with looking for another and custom fees again but might not have a choice. I’ve learned to really like this meter, so if it goes back I might just buy one in the US thats already calibrated for the sale and put the extra money in.

Ask for an alternative discount that's enough for you to consider keeping it...or selling/trading it to me. ;) ;)
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Offline BillyO

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Re: Finally 7.5 Digit - My "new" Keithley DMM7510
« Reply #174 on: October 29, 2025, 12:23:58 am »
How does the DMM7510 compare with the Keysight 34470A?

They seem to be available for around the same price on ebay.
Bill
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