Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B

[uncle_bob]

Has anyone already converted the nozzles from TVM802A to Juki using an adapter?

Paul.

Hi

On a related topic:

Has anybody tried the other 4 common Juki nozzle sized on a TVM802? Some of them are mighty small ....

Bob

[mrpackethead]

Have any of the TVM802B users got any comments on the feeder system? 

Are you breaking cover tapes? Does it relaibly feed.

And anyone doing 0402?

[harry4516]

Have any of the TVM802B users got any comments on the feeder system? 

Are you breaking cover tapes? Does it relaibly feed.

And anyone doing 0402?

yes, it feeds reliably, no problem with cover tapes. But needs some adjustment from time to time.
If something goes wrong, the 802B stops and beeps until you fix the problem.
Most problems are self made. With every board I learn a bit and it works better and better.

0402, can work, but I would not do it as my standard parts, 0603 are fine.
For my 0402 parts I always use the camera, even for R and Cs.

Before placing a batch of boards I test the adjustment by placing the most difficult part to a board with double-sided adhesive tape,
a QFN or TQFP to check for any offsets.
Usually the camera rotation needs adjustment. Once adjusted it remains stable for the full batch.
On another day it may need readjustment.
The cam rotation is the only value I adjust regularly, all the other values look to be stable over weeks.

I put a videao on youtube this week which shows some close-up views of the pick&place head beginning at minute 2:30

[mrpackethead]

Thanks,  is the machine running quite slowly in this video?

[harry4516]

Thanks,  is the machine running quite slowly in this video?

most parts are placed with 100% speed.

[mrpackethead]

Im curious aobut your stencil printer?.. Is that something you made yourself?

[mairo]

The stencil looks to me like the one sold by CIF

http://cif.fr/en/manual-operated-stencil-printer-for-smd/292-machine-a-serigraphier-manuelle-pour-cms-tecprint-400-et-600.html

It looks nice, but I think is missing/lacking vertical separation from the PCB?

[harry4516]

you are right, its the tecprint 500 from CIF.

Last year I tried it with one of these $400 chinese printers. The problem was that its only usable with framed stencils
and its very hard to get this size of frame outside China.

The tecprint can be used with unframed stencils of any size. Two springs keep the stencil flat.
This saves  costs for the stencil since I can use smaller ones.

and yes, it is not a fully vertical separation, it uses a hinge, but the results are fine down to 0,5mm pitch.

[TJ232]

How much did you pay for Tecprint 500 from CIF?

[harry4516]

How much did you pay for Tecprint 500 from CIF?

it was 1545 Eur

[technotronix]

What is it's best price without feeder?

[ar__systems]

Thanks,  is the machine running quite slowly in this video?

Yes. I would say it is 50% speed.

[nonlinearcircuits]

Hi All
new guy here 

Setting up my 1st pick & place machine - TVM802B

The DVD came with
SucfaceMount802-EN-V2.23Beta2
(not my typo btw) which does not open in windows 7 pro or windows 10.
I just get the 'allow this app' question, then nothing happens.
Probably I'm missing something obvious, its been a few years since I have set up anything like this.

If anybody has some hints or step-by-step instructions or could send me another version of the program that works, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks
Andrew

[thommo]

Hi Andrew

I'd try contacting QiHe directly.

Speak with daisy - I was just speaking with her and let her know about your issue.

Her Skype address is:  live:daisyqiu1994

I don't use the 802, but have just ordered a TVM920 model from them.

Good luck!

Hi All
new guy here 

Setting up my 1st pick & place machine - TVM802B

The DVD came with
SucfaceMount802-EN-V2.23Beta2
(not my typo btw) which does not open in windows 7 pro or windows 10.
I just get the 'allow this app' question, then nothing happens.
Probably I'm missing something obvious, its been a few years since I have set up anything like this.

If anybody has some hints or step-by-step instructions or could send me another version of the program that works, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks
Andrew

[nonlinearcircuits]

Thanks Thommo
I did try to email them 1st, but I got Jim who replied -
"You can find the software in the CD
The software in the CD"

which wasn't really the answer I was looking for 

I've never used skype, would you have an email address for Daisy?

cheers
Andrew

[l0wside]

No worries about Skype. They use it for chatting, no worries about making phone calls

Skype is easy to use, if you don´t want it on your computer, install the app on your smartphone and remove it once you´re done.

Max

[nonlinearcircuits]

I set up skype and got hold of Jim, who sent me the same files:

SucfaceMount802-EN-V2.23Beta2

but still doesn't work. Double-clicking the SucfaceMount.exe gets the computer thinking for a few seconds and then nothing.

Is anybody using this version? Anything special to do or just double click and away it goes?
Does the TVM802B need to be connected and on when the software is started?

Thanks
Andrew

[ar__systems]

Is anybody using this version? Anything special to do or just double click and away it goes?
Does the TVM802B need to be connected and on when the software is started?

Yes it needs to be connected but if it is not the s/w will prompt you to enter new IP add
ress of the machine.

I guess something is wrong with that rev. Ask for the latest non-beta revision.

[Smallsmt]

Maybe you have an Antivirus problem blocking the execution?

[harry4516]

...
(not my typo btw) which does not open in windows 7 pro or windows 10.
I just get the 'allow this app' question, then nothing happens...

Hi Andrew,

this problem is caused by some special chinese characters in the filenames which corrupt the windows explorer.

I solved this on a Linux PC, copying the complete DVD on harddisk and renaming the files with chinese characters. Then windows was able to read the files.
If you cannot do it, just write me a PM with your email address, I will help you.

Good Luck
Harry

[nonlinearcircuits]

Thanks Harry
No Linux PC here, so message sent

cheers
Andrew

edit (SOLVED) - Jim from QIHE sent me the previous version of the software today. It worked fine. So back to loading up reels 

[harry4516]

good to hear that it works for you now.

Last week I modified all my PnP files to use quick-camera-mode even for R and Cs.
Some 0603 Rs and Cs where placed out of alignment and needed manual correction before soldering.
One reason are the plastic tapes. Components in plastic tapes are not well positioned, paper tapes are better but still not good enough.
The second problem is that the feeder coordinates change with temperature, realignments where required every few days.

This was solved nicely by using the camera's quick mode. Now all R and Cs are placed perfectly (with 100% speed).
Of course, placing a board needs much longer now, but speed was never an issue when using the TVM802.

my current setup:

Nozzle-1: size 503 (for 0603, 0805, 1206, SOT23 ...)
Nozzle-2: size 505 (for 1210 and most ICs)

pressure check is actived for all parts except 1210 (the 505 nozzle is a bit too big for 1210, but works without pressure check).

quick-cam-mode for all parts except ICs.
accurate mode for all ICs.

speed:
0603, 0805, SOT523 ... 100%
1206 ... 50%
1210 ... 50%
ICs ... 100%
SOT-23 and similar size cases ... 20% (they will flip and jump on the nozzle at higher speed, with one exception:
SOT23 with very flat surface like most MOSFETs then I run it at 100%).

Initial alignment before placing a batch of boards:
install a board with a little piece of doublesided tape at the most critical IC position, then I place just this IC.
I correct any misalignment by modifying the cam-1 coordinates and rotation.
Attention: some misplacements are caused by the cam-1's contrast setting which may also need an adjustment.

If all works well a batch of 50 boards is no problem without any further re-alignments.

Soldering with Loctite GC10 SAC305T4. This solder paste forgives a lot of bad alignments even with big ICs.
My stencil is 100u with 20% pad reduction.

Thats my story :-) I am doing about 50 to 100 boards every week.
How are the other TVM802 users doing ? Tell us.

Harry

[ar__systems]

I also came to conclusion that is better to use quick visual for all R & C. On my machine I noticed that a bit of error is introduced by nozzle rotation - it does not stay in the same spot as it rotates. Visual check fixes that.

I'm using 0.12mm stencil, same paste as you do, but we got quite a few bridges on the last batch, on 0.5mm pitch parts. Will try to make smaller openings in future.

[harry4516]

the 802 is a nice machine for the money, but we must also talk about its limits.

This is a picture after placing (and before soldering) two CSD97376. These are 0,4mm pitch chips.
Both where placed one immediately after the other. The left one is placed perfectly,
the right one is left shifted by 0,2mm (which is half pitch) and therefore needs manual correction before soldering.

The reason is a bad edge detection by the camera. I tried all threshold setting but no luck.
During "accurate" adjustment I can see the red line jumping. Looks like the contrast with these type of cases is too bad.
I never had this problem with TQFP where the pins (with good contrast) define the edges.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Most of the bottom of that part is a ground pad. That's going to add a bit more complexity to the edge recognition. I'm not saying that's the whole issue. I'm only suggesting that if / when we start playing with LED angles and disks, it will be one more thing to worry about.

For those not already following this on the 920 thread:

The 920 has a different illumination setup. The LED's are angled a bit compared to the 802

There is some thought that a contrasting disk of one or another color behind the part (mounted to the head) is the solution.

FWIW: Back a "a while ago" my day job was picking visual images of things out of clutter with software. The target was different, the idea was the same. It's never easy to do 100% of the time running on autopilot.

Bob