Counterfeit AKM Parts

[wraper]

In this case the only visual indicators was the laser marked pin 1 indicator and after contacting AKM for these parts, they confirmed the date code is invalid.

These chips were sanded/grinded and blacktopped. Sharp edges and weird surface is a giveaway. You can rub them with acetone and marking should come off. Alcohol may work as well but it's less effective. Best to be done on not reflowed parts because after baking blacktopping may become very robust.

[amyk]

suggestion

ask for mr Noopy to collaborate and decap a good/fake part (the "die" guy in this forum https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/opamps-die-pictures/). maybe he would be interested?
maybe we can see whats inside the fake

the fake factory must be extremely versatile, i have never heard of such factory being busted before

Likely something else entirely different that has been remarked.

[fcb]

$4M order???  Design out the AKM part unless you can get a reel from an official authorised AKM distributor.

[jmelson]

$4M order???  Design out the AKM part unless you can get a reel from an official authorised AKM distributor.

Well, one other option is to set up a test station to test the chips as they come in.  If you can get a vendor to agree, set up an escrow transaction, if the supplied chips pass testing, you release payment.  Othwerwise, you return the fakes and get your money back.  Of course, if there really are NO REAL parts sitting on a shelf anywhere, then redesign is the ONLY option.

Jon

[gnuarm]

AKM has confirmed the parts are not genuine AKM parts because they have a 'P' at the end of the part number (which AKM never adds to the part) and have an invalid date code.  So really, had we known this, we would not have needed to test anything. 

When this was shared with the seller he claimed the parts are "refurbished" whatever that means.  If the markings are not genuine they can't even be "used" parts.  Whoever produced these took parts off boards in the same package and marked then with new markings.  Someone here posted something to that effect, but they described something with ink or whatever.  Chips today are marked with a laser abrading the surface of the chip.  The point is these parts are absolutely not genuine chips and never were. 

[NorthGuy]

When this was shared with the seller he claimed the parts are "refurbished" whatever that means.

Make sure you write a negative review, so that other people would know not to buy from this seller.

[phil from seattle]

When this was shared with the seller he claimed the parts are "refurbished" whatever that means.

Make sure you write a negative review, so that other people would know not to buy from this seller.

Feedback like that is good.  Though, there seems to be a standard Aliexpress business plan of changing names when the negative reviews pile up.  I'm afraid that this will never change.  I guess business ethics are not very important to the Aliwhatever retailers.

[langwadt]

AKM has confirmed the parts are not genuine AKM parts because they have a 'P' at the end of the part number (which AKM never adds to the part) and have an invalid date code.  So really, had we known this, we would not have needed to test anything. 

When this was shared with the seller he claimed the parts are "refurbished" whatever that means.  If the markings are not genuine they can't even be "used" parts.  Whoever produced these took parts off boards in the same package and marked then with new markings.  Someone here posted something to that effect, but they described something with ink or whatever.  Chips today are marked with a laser abrading the surface of the chip.  The point is these parts are absolutely not genuine chips and never were.

I'm guessing in this case "refurbished" means random parts remarket to what ever in that package has the highest price at the moment 

[exe]

16 bits at 48 ksps requires over 3 Gbps.

How did you get 3Gbps? I only get 16*48=768kbps

[gnuarm]

When this was shared with the seller he claimed the parts are "refurbished" whatever that means.

Make sure you write a negative review, so that other people would know not to buy from this seller.

Feedback like that is good.  Though, there seems to be a standard Aliexpress business plan of changing names when the negative reviews pile up.  I'm afraid that this will never change.  I guess business ethics are not very important to the Aliwhatever retailers.

Not Aliexpress, Alibaba.  Same company, but not the same web site.  No reviews.

[gnuarm]

16 bits at 48 ksps requires over 3 Gbps.

How did you get 3Gbps? I only get 16*48=768kbps

Delta-sigma modulation rate at the input, not bit rate for the samples.  I don't know if this could be made to work at 16 ENOB, but it would be fun trying.  I'm presently working on an ADC that samples at 33 MHz and only needs a 200 Hz sample rate.  That gives 17 bits in the output even if the accuracy is nowhere near that.  At least it has a lot of filtering.  lol 

Once in operation I may reduce the input sample rate to reduce nonlinear effects in the analog/digital interface.  So it may end up with only 14 or 15 bits, but they should be more linear. 

[NorthGuy]

Not Aliexpress, Alibaba.  Same company, but not the same web site.  No reviews.

There are reviews on Alibaba. They typically send you an email with a link for the review after you confirm the order completion. Or you can log in, click orders and leave review. You have 30 days for reviews or disputes. If the manufacturer confirmed chips were fake, you have a good chance to get your money back.

[gnuarm]

Not Aliexpress, Alibaba.  Same company, but not the same web site.  No reviews.

There are reviews on Alibaba. They typically send you an email with a link for the review after you confirm the order completion. Or you can log in, click orders and leave review. You have 30 days for reviews or disputes. If the manufacturer confirmed chips were fake, you have a good chance to get your money back.

How do you read reviews of vendors on Alibaba?  I had an opportunity to  leave feedback, but I have no idea if anyone other than Alibaba can read that.

[NorthGuy]

How do you read reviews of vendors on Alibaba?  I had an opportunity to  leave feedback, but I have no idea if anyone other than Alibaba can read that.

Click on the name of the supplier. The page will open which contains a menu. From the menu, select Profile->Company Overview. Look for the orange score - it is somewhat on the right side, close to the top of the page. Click on it and read the reviews.

[gnuarm]

They certainly don't make that easy to find.  Regardless, no bad reviews at all.  They probably are fake like on Amazon.

[gnuarm]

Let me ask this.  I had about $2,000 out of pocket expenses for the unexpected tariff and the testing costs.  Is it reasonable to expect this vendor to compensate me for that on top of the refund?

[wraper]

Is it reasonable to expect this vendor to compensate me for that on top of the refund?

Good luck with that.

[gnuarm]

Is it reasonable to expect this vendor to compensate me for that on top of the refund?

Good luck with that.

I didn't mean to ask if it is realistic.  I mean if it was a reasonable demand given the fraudulent nature of selling counterfeit goods. 

I do expect to get my payment back through the credit card company if nothing else.  Then the guy will be out the money I gave him.  He can then recoup something by reimbursing me.  I return the parts so he can get a refund from his supplier. 

[Mangozac]

Let me ask this.  I had about $2,000 out of pocket expenses for the unexpected tariff and the testing costs.  Is it reasonable to expect this vendor to compensate me for that on top of the refund?

Reasonable to ask, sure. I don't like your chances though!

[gnuarm]

It depends on how pragmatic the vendor is.  If he paid $4000 for the chips and wants to get his money back, will he pay $2000 for them?

[SilverSolder]

It depends on how pragmatic the vendor is.  If he paid $4000 for the chips and wants to get his money back, will he pay $2000 for them?

If the original seller knows they are fake...  do they care about getting them back?

Ususally I just get my money back, and get asked to dispose of the bad parts...

[NorthGuy]

They certainly don't make that easy to find.  Regardless, no bad reviews at all.  They probably are fake like on Amazon.

You have an opportunity to change things for the better and write a bad review.

[gnuarm]

It depends on how pragmatic the vendor is.  If he paid $4000 for the chips and wants to get his money back, will he pay $2000 for them?

If the original seller knows they are fake...  do they care about getting them back?

Ususally I just get my money back, and get asked to dispose of the bad parts...

He claims he can get his money back.  Fine, but I want to be reimbursed for my expenses.  I actually paid out of pocket $1900 plus 400 miles of driving and a day of my work time. 

[gnuarm]

They certainly don't make that easy to find.  Regardless, no bad reviews at all.  They probably are fake like on Amazon.

You have an opportunity to change things for the better and write a bad review.

Yeah, sure, but I should do that at the end of the process so I have all the details.  Not that I expect it will make any difference.  It looks like the guy has people put up fake reviews.  Instead of reviews from many individuals, there are many reviews from a small number of individuals.

[exe]

Did you try to contact alibaba for their advice? Although, in many places I've seen disclaimers like "our warranty doesn't cover damages and liability". But then again, if you really want to know your rights, you need a layer. And even then, suing a seller in China over $2k sounds like your just gonna lose even more money (but IANAL*).

* "I am not a laywer" acronym