Pick & Place MachineTVM920

[mrpackethead]

Thats awesome you know what you want. 
Its awsome that i'm not getting upset about what  you know what you want.

When i buy a order of Components to build somethign do i get an 'insurance policy' it will work.. no. I'm well used to making things that have'nt been made before. Its not a lot different.

[glenenglish]

By the way, I've never gotten the answer to Max Component Height that TVM920 can handle with stock s/w. I know Z travel is 15mm, but max component height is not equal to Z-travel

Hi

Maximum Z TRAVEL is a little more than 20mm, 21.5 or something

 (fully extended)  :
Height (of the bottom of the nozzle holder)
 above the big base plate is ~56mm  or 76mm retracted.

so a 15mm tall part is reasonable but you could only carry it 5mm above the PCB.
what's that tall ? some ethernet sockets, some inductors I guess

to go all the way to say 18mm  , (allowing 2mm for clearance ) routing might have to be derived to move it to location without crashing into other stuff.

15mm is about usual for this market machine.

[glenenglish]

(note I made a type on the retracted distance in the previous post) (now corrected)

I have in the TVMdriver program a "crash prevention algorithm''

It ensures the lowered head will not travel through the camera illuminator zone.

It works by checking if the given movement trajectory passes through a defined polygon (and refuses if so) .

Now, that idea *could* be extended to multiple polygons in the form of the components on a PCB.

But you also then need a strategy to go around stuff rather than refusing the command and dumping an error.....
maybe have the handler just pull up the Z axis if there is going to be an illegal traverse. That will work for all but carrying tall components through tall areas.

Also, there needs to be a facility in OPNP for Move_to returning FALSE rather than void or whatever.
It can't carry on blindly. This function will be put in to OpenPNP.


Because in my situation I need to be able to return to OPNP "illegal operation"

(also need to cope with MACHINE FAULT - where the XY drivers return ERROR (TVM920 is closed loop stepper driver)

Now, what we do about that post the attempted illegal move, I dunno. (this will be covered separately in the OpenPNP group elsehwhere.)

[anfang]

How about just limit jogs to +/-1mm at a time or so while the head Z is not at home?

[glenenglish]

agreed.  the handler has to safeguard the machine if the user tries to do something they should not.

and 1mm jog  at a time could still break something.

I can at a simplification, have the TVMhandler just pull up the Z autonomonously as a protection method.

Ultimately I want to get to a point where the machine can place full height parts in areas where there are already full height parts placed/
That is, navigating down the streets of Manhattan. My Yamaha does that. But that sort of strategy can be built into the host PNP application.
 (like OpenPNP.)

My thinking is, and I am open to other ideas, that the TVM handler should just be there to stop down-nozzles crashing into static  things when mis-commanded by the operator or the host PNP application.


 

[anfang]

Maximum Z TRAVEL is a little more than 20mm, 21.5 or something

I just measured on my machine, and if you use the provided board holder, a 1.6mm PCB and the largest Juki nozzle, then clearance to the PCB is about 10.5mm.

I had been studying to see if the Juki holders linked below might fit. They have balls to center the nozzle in the holder and appear to have excellent eccentricity. Unfortunately, the nozzle holder on the TVM920 is about 10mm long overall, and appears to be press fitted on the stepper. The nozzle holders below are 30mm long. Too bad.

http://www.betztechnik.ca/store/p32/Quick_change_Juki_nozzle_holders-_NEMA_8_5mm_OD_hollow_shaft-_STOCK.html

[anfang]

Ultimately I want to get to a point where the machine can place full height parts in areas where there are already full height parts placed.

Personally, I think that logic should live in OpenPNP. it's not machine specific. It's a feature that would be useful to every PNP machine. it also means that the driver has to get really smart, which means your testing requirement gets really complicated. And since you are a guy doing this out of the goodness of your heart, you will be overwhelmed with bug reports where someone says "My machine won't place C502, can you tell me why?" and then you have to learn all sorts of state information to debug why in fact it failed.

The rapid decline in reliablity of MSFT OSs in the late 90s was overwhelmingly due to drivers getting too smart. Drivers could do anything, and many people that had no business writing drivers were writing poor code in kernel mode. They quickly realized the root cause of the poor stability, and Microsoft moved all the critical kernel mode code into THEIR driver code at the top of the stack, and then basically OEMs just had to write simple read/write functions in user space to make the hardware work. Just like Linux. But the lesson is very important: Keep drivers simple, and move the smarts into the higher levels. Always.

[harry4516]

there are a couple of TVM920 users. I was hoping that some of you will
make a youtube video showing how the machine works.

There are so many videos about the TVM802, but nothing by TVM920 users.

Come on, do us a favor, take your smartphone and upload some vids.

Thanks
Harry

[mrpackethead]

there are a couple of TVM920 users. I was hoping that some of you will
make a youtube video showing how the machine works.

There are so many videos about the TVM802, but nothing by TVM920 users.

Come on, do us a favor, take your smartphone and upload some vids.

Thanks
Harry

Theres a couple of videos on this forum already.   Whats really missing is videos of SmallSmT machines Micheal.

[Spikee]

There are short video's online from vendors / sales people only showing the machine in very short and limited operation.
If anyone who has this machine could just do a short walk-around (don't even need to talk) or could show it operating that would be greatly appreciated.

[glenenglish]

Anfang, I am not sure you got that right OR I mis-interpreted your statement.

When I put a 505 juki nozzle in, the bottom of the nozzle is 50mm above the deck

travel is around 21mm - travel is variable of course

the bottom of the nozzle will reach just touch fully extended 50-21 = 29mm above the deck.
you want say 1mm compression so let's call it 30mm is the minimum board height- leaving 20mm

so...you have a 20mm gap between the board and the fully retracted nozzle.

which is reasonable.

I have not used their board mounters- they are a bit clunky and large !. Luckily there are a heap of threads in the plate.
just something like a cap head screw, compression washer and  some 5mm x 20mm  bar between the screws will  do it.

Ok I think I understand what you meant, that is the travel available with the supplied board mounters,

[glenenglish]

Anfang, please contact me directly on email/PM

I have a TVM920handler   + OpenPNP build for you.

[cmantunes]

Smallsmt, do you have any customers in the US yet? Thanks!

[ar__systems]

Ultimately I want to get to a point where the machine can place full height parts in areas where there are already full height parts placed/
That is, navigating down the streets of Manhattan. My Yamaha does that. But that sort of strategy can be built into the host PNP application.
 (like OpenPNP.)

This problem has a much simpler solution. Just sort placement order by X or Y and give tall parts priority.

[glenenglish]

OK, how many here have TVM920s? everybody who does please send me a email / private message, we'll start distributing the TVMhandler  and OpenPNP build.

[mrpackethead]

Maybe just push your code into a git repo. Save your self lots of work and then others can contribute to your efforts as well.   Open source is so powerful to get stuff done at speed

[Grea Fang]

This is Grea Fang from Yueqing Qihe electrical technology company.

Grea

Hi, can we buy the 920 machine without any software.

Sorry for my late reply.
Excuse me, Are you Mr. who contacted me in Skype? If any problem, pls feel free contact to me. Hoping keep contact.

[mrpackethead]

This is Grea Fang from Yueqing Qihe electrical technology company.

Grea

Hi, can we buy the 920 machine without any software.

Yes, thankyou for a very useful disussion.


Sorry for my late reply.
Excuse me, Are you Mr. who contacted me in Skype? If any problem, pls feel free contact to me. Hoping keep contact.

[zszabo]

What is the " useful disussion" outcome ?

[vonnieda]

Maybe just push your code into a git repo. Save your self lots of work and then others can contribute to your efforts as well.   Open source is so powerful to get stuff done at speed

+1 to this. A lesson hard learned from OpenPnP is that it's more valuable to document something once on a Wiki rather than 100 times in emails to 100 different people. Push the code up to a repo, add the docs to a Wiki and update as you go. Then you can just send interested parties a link.

[richardlawson1489]

I think you have to pay an additional cost for this Pick & Place.

[mrpackethead]

I think you have to pay an additional cost for this Pick & Place.

Clearly you have to pay something but what do you mena additional cost?

[dtf]

Having some trouble with OpenPNP. It can view the cameras from the capture card, but only one camera at a time. I need to close OpenPNP, open the capture program or the TVM920 software, change to the other camera, close the program, and go back to OpenPNP to view the other camera. I guess they are connected via 'channels' and only one can be selected at a time, and the functionality to select channels is not in OpenPNP.

Has anyone got their TVM920 cameras working with OpenPNP?

[glenenglish]

there is a thread on this at OpenPNP

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openpnp/_RtmRnfAZ-w

it's being addressed

have a read through the thread, there is quite  bit of information there.

[dtf]

Thanks Glen, this thread did not come up in my search, I'll have a read.