Author Topic: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines  (Read 202729 times)

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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #675 on: May 31, 2023, 08:00:07 pm »
Hi Mike,
the maximum component height is 13mm this means you can move over 1 mm tall parts on PCB.

All push feeders are included!

Quote
Different to each other? Do you mean it has one camera for larger parts & one for small?
Yes this is the option and for additional costs it is possible to install industrial HD USB cameras.

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640x480 could be marginal for getting sufficient accuracy for QFPs, unless it can image large parts in multiple sections - can it do that?
This is not supported it's recommend to use HD cameras for Big components using fine pin pitch.
Both cameras use different magnifications and it is possible to align 0.45mm pin pitch up to 10x10mm on analog camera 1.

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Is the software written by your company or China?
Our machine software is mainly developed in china and already 6 years on the market. We have more than 260 user operating their machines using V2 Software.

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Is feeder cover-tape peel force adjustable per-feeder?
Yes the force is adjustable in 3 steps. We plan to add a new function to release the roller from tape if line is unused.

Quote
Is there an option for a tube feeder?
Yes we offer a vibration feeder holding 7 tubes (SO-8 width) for example.
It is possible to customize the vibration feeder to feed relais and bigger components too.

Quote
When is it likely to be available?
The machine is under test and sales will start in July.

We are planning a design contest!
- porting open source motion controller source code to our STM32 controller board and keep it open source
- do all additional steps to get the machine operating using OpenPNP software
- add bootloader for firmware updates we already use a custom bootloader

The price will be a free PANDA BASIC machine!

Registration page will be online next week.

We provide technical documentation and support for development.

Finally the customers are able to decide to use our Software or OpenPNP on this nice machine.


 


« Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 08:20:02 pm by Smallsmt »
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #676 on: May 31, 2023, 08:32:53 pm »
First version of web page for registration is open.

https://www.smallsmt.biz/panda-design-contest/
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #677 on: June 02, 2023, 08:09:40 am »

Interesting approach.
Does it also need an external air source?
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #678 on: June 02, 2023, 11:59:11 am »

Interesting approach.
Does it also need an external air source?

Yes all of our machines need an external air source because of push feeder and vacuum generators.

Here are some examples
http://www.smallsmt.net/t150f5-Super-silent-air-supply-for-PNP-machine.html#msg995
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #679 on: June 10, 2023, 09:45:25 am »
First working prototype video for PANDA pick and place machine uploaded.
Machine is shown without cover.

https://youtu.be/HDKxFWeqm5o
 

Offline MR

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #680 on: June 12, 2023, 04:52:40 am »
Does not look very consistent when looking at 4:26 that inaccuracy would kick out 0402 for sure. And the little oscillating or overshooting(?) of the head is also not nice.
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #681 on: June 12, 2023, 11:12:09 am »
We are still improving CORE XY design has it's own life ;)
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #682 on: June 12, 2023, 11:20:37 am »
The main question that I see here is:

-> Why CoreXY?

I know, it's still trendy, the new bread & butter thingy but ... for a PNP machine what's the main advantage of it vs. more classic Cartesian things to choose something like that?
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #683 on: June 12, 2023, 11:34:01 am »
The main question that I see here is:

-> Why CoreXY?

I know, it's still trendy, the new bread & butter thingy but ... for a PNP machine what's the main advantage of it vs. more classic Cartesian things to choose something like that?

It's mostly the price point but finally the head weight goes down and it should be able to move faster.
Any belt machine without position feed back is not able to place 0201 or fine pitch reliable the reason why we only use spindle and AC servo on the professional machines.

But in this case we want to offer a machine for entry level user which is not complete rubbish.

The demand for low price machines is high.
If you slow down the Z axis speed a little head swing over is no problem because the part placed after system stabilized.

We are on a good way to improve this new design in the next weeks before sales can start.

 

Offline PlainName

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #684 on: June 12, 2023, 01:10:45 pm »
Quote
for a PNP machine what's the main advantage of it vs. more classic Cartesian things to choose something like that?

This is the first I heard of it, but on a brief look it seems to me the big advantage is there's no motor mounted on a carriage - both are solidly mounted to the static frame. In a traditional setup, the X-axis motor will be mounted on the Y-axis gantry (or vice versa) adding mass and power/signal access issues. CoreXY removes that motor from the moving gantry.

'Course, I might be wrong :)
 
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #685 on: June 12, 2023, 03:18:40 pm »
exactly this is the point
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 03:20:55 pm by Smallsmt »
 
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Offline MR

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #686 on: June 12, 2023, 10:21:24 pm »
Quote
for a PNP machine what's the main advantage of it vs. more classic Cartesian things to choose something like that?

This is the first I heard of it, but on a brief look it seems to me the big advantage is there's no motor mounted on a carriage - both are solidly mounted to the static frame. In a traditional setup, the X-axis motor will be mounted on the Y-axis gantry (or vice versa) adding mass and power/signal access issues. CoreXY removes that motor from the moving gantry.

'Course, I might be wrong :)

you can achieve that goal another way as well, eg croXY printer / cross XY system.
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #687 on: June 13, 2023, 04:10:29 pm »
The main question that I see here is:

-> Why CoreXY?

I know, it's still trendy, the new bread & butter thingy but ... for a PNP machine what's the main advantage of it vs. more classic Cartesian things to choose something like that?

It's mostly the price point but finally the head weight goes down and it should be able to move faster.
Any belt machine without position feed back is not able to place 0201 or fine pitch reliable the reason why we only use spindle and AC servo on the professional machines.

But in this case we want to offer a machine for entry level user which is not complete rubbish.

The demand for low price machines is high.
If you slow down the Z axis speed a little head swing over is no problem because the part placed after system stabilized.

We are on a good way to improve this new design in the next weeks before sales can start.



It sounds like an interesting approach but I'm not so sure that going to CoreXY it's the right way to achieve your main goal: a low price PNP entry machine, easy to setup, easy to service, easy to mantain, you know what I mean.

Reducing PNP Head weight it's good but I think this type of drive will open a brand new can of worms.

I am really looking forward to see it competing a clasical Cartesian system.

Regarding entry level PNP machines:

From the pure mechanical point of view I see Neoden YY1 better equipped. Software it's...meh, but mechanics is more that decent for that amount of money. Add to it another 1K USD in changing 3D printed parts in some more sturdy ALU ones and you are at next level al very low price.

Tronstol E1 is also an interesting approach, a bit pricey for what's capable of, but still. QA/QC seems to be a liiiilte bit od, but aftersale support looks somhow decent, see related thread.

Also let's not forget the existing OpenPNP Kits from AliExpress, seems plenty of them, like PandaPlacer & friends.
Has anybody tried any othe these ones and can give an overview?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2023, 07:12:12 am by TJ232 »
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #688 on: August 17, 2023, 06:21:01 pm »
Hi we changed the design of the SMALLSMT PANDA from HBOT back to standard X/Y system.
We need a few weeks to finish testing and to finalize the product.
The HBOT design was a fail can't reach the required precision.
 
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #689 on: August 17, 2023, 10:47:24 pm »
Hi we changed the design of the SMALLSMT PANDA from HBOT back to standard X/Y system.
We need a few weeks to finish testing and to finalize the product.
The HBOT design was a fail can't reach the required precision.
Bravo for telling this, it shows full transparency and gains trust, thank you.
 

Offline vri11

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #690 on: September 13, 2023, 03:51:26 pm »
Hello,

We are looking for a pnp for internal prototyping.
Our typical board is small (60x80mm) with component on both side.
We use a lot of 0.5mm pitch components (qfn, lga, bga) and 0402 passive with (0201 decoupling caps)
we use also a lqfp 100 e0.5 (14x14mm mcu).
An french reseller has proposed your machine and your oven.

I have some question on SMT2800HP-CL22:
what is the maxium component size for the high resolution camera? lqfp 100 is ok?
SMT2800HP-CL22-2H has the nozzle changer and the -4H not? there is an option for -4H nozzle changer?
The north push feeder is an option?
SMT2800HP-CL22-4H has the z axis sensor?
an LGA 22x20mm e1.1mm 4G modem can be posed reliably?
There is a software manual? I found a small documentation and a long video.

There is here an user can give me an user feedback on SMT2800HP-CL22 machines?

 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #691 on: September 15, 2023, 02:42:16 pm »
Hello,

We are looking for a pnp for internal prototyping.
Our typical board is small (60x80mm) with component on both side.
We use a lot of 0.5mm pitch components (qfn, lga, bga) and 0402 passive with (0201 decoupling caps)
we use also a lqfp 100 e0.5 (14x14mm mcu).
An french reseller has proposed your machine and your oven.

I have some question on SMT2800HP-CL22:
what is the maxium component size for the high resolution camera? lqfp 100 is ok?
SMT2800HP-CL22-2H has the nozzle changer and the -4H not? there is an option for -4H nozzle changer?
The north push feeder is an option?
SMT2800HP-CL22-4H has the z axis sensor?
an LGA 22x20mm e1.1mm 4G modem can be posed reliably?
There is a software manual? I found a small documentation and a long video.

There is here an user can give me an user feedback on SMT2800HP-CL22 machines?
Hi, the 4 head machines have no option for a nozzle changer because of the head design.
You receive the Z axis sensor for free on the 2H machines which is not possible on the 4H too.

For the software manual you can send me an email (michael@smallsmt.biz)  I will give you access to the download area of our website.
The visual area of the bottom camera 2 can be extended to 30x30mm by using a usb camera optional.

I can give you some customer contacts for this machine if you need.
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #692 on: September 28, 2023, 06:01:47 pm »
Finally we finished our SMALLSMT PANDA pnp machine construction.
The machine is operating nicely.
But unfortunally we can't add a cover at this low sales price it will add 600usd production costs and this will fail to fit in the adressed customer segment.

I added a new video showing complete pcb assembly task using all type of feeders on this machine.


https://youtu.be/q8SdFEl2RA4
 

Offline meshtron

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #693 on: September 28, 2023, 09:30:42 pm »
Looks really nice!
 

Offline TJ232

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #694 on: September 29, 2023, 07:34:48 am »
Good choice, a way better looking solution than the CoreXY experiment.

Do you have a Datasheet available for it?
Machine size?
Machine weight?
Working area?
6 pcs nozzle changer included as standard?
Minimum Pin pitch? 0.45?
Smallest part? 0402?
Bigest part? LQFP100?
What's the real component Z height in this case from that advertised 15mm.

Expected price?

« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 03:14:06 pm by TJ232 »
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Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #695 on: October 10, 2023, 06:32:10 am »
Hi TJ232,

I am back from holidays and will update website coming weekend to answer all of the questions.

 
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Offline Simon1234

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #696 on: October 16, 2023, 08:18:25 am »
I am back from holidays and will update website coming weekend to answer all of the questions.

Where can we find the updated information?
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #697 on: October 16, 2023, 09:03:17 am »
I am sorry we are a little delayed the final photos still not ready.
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #698 on: November 10, 2023, 06:52:07 pm »
First of all the PANDA Basic is shipping now!
https://www.smallsmt.biz/panda-basic-pnp-machine/



Our PANDA Pro will be ready for shipping end of the month we are waiting for the covers to arrive.
https://www.smallsmt.biz/panda-pro-pnp-machine/
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 09:25:48 am by Smallsmt »
 

Offline SmallsmtTopic starter

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Re: SMALLSMT Vision Placer Pick & Place machines
« Reply #699 on: November 10, 2023, 07:01:16 pm »
We also have a Black Friday offer!

The SMALLSMT LYNX is being sold at this extremely low price for 7699usd instead of 9999usd.
https://www.smallsmt.biz/smallsmt-lynx-pick-and-place-machine-1/

  • Working Area: 300x500mm
  • Travel Area: 460 x 660mm
  • Machine Dimensions: 960x1132x520mm
  • Placement Range: 0201 to 30x30mm
  • Placement Speed: 2000 to 4500cph
  • Nozzle Changer: 6 slot included!
  • West Feeder: 32x 8mm CL Feeder
  • East Feeder: 2x 20x 8mm  push Feeder total 40 Push feeder
  • North / Vibration Feeder: up to 4x Optional Feeder modules holding 7x SO-8 tubes

 


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