PAL16R4B Programmer

[Mapleleaf107]

A buddy of mine is refurbishing some old tech and needs to read and write to a PAL16RB4-2CN. I found some expensive programmers online for him but they are way over budget. Can anyone recommend an inexpensive programmer that could read/write this older PAL?

[up8051]

Do you have JED file?
If yes, convert it from PAL16R4 to GAL16V8 and use GALBlast programmer:

http://www.bhabbott.net.nz/atfblast.html
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/Pgmrs/GAL/_ClikMe1st.htm
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/current-inexpensive-programmer-for-22v10_s-16v8_s/

[COREi64]

I'm the guy my buddy was talking about.

I have the original PAL chip only.  So, I'd need to be able to read the chip, then write it to a blank one.

[up8051]

So you need to find someone with appropriate programmer.
If the chip is protected you have to do reverse engineering.

I have labtool-48 but I far away from you.

[COREi64]

The chip is not protected, so it's just a matter of finding (an affordable) programmer...  that's what I'm looking for, names/models of programmers I could look for.

Thanks

[up8051]

Labtool-48
Labtool-48XP(UXP)
Dataman-48XP(UXP)
Xeltek Superpro-6100
Xeltek SuperPro-6104

Maybe look for the nearest technical university.

[COREi64]

Thanks for the list, but I was thinking more in the neighborhood of 100+ dollars, not a 1000+.  These high end programmers negate the cost effectiveness of recreating the chip.

And unfortunately, I have no associations with universities.

Any lower priced options anyone?

I've heard the American Reliance AR9820 would do the job.  Having a tough time locating one.  Anyone here have one they don't need anymore?

[up8051]

The problem with old PALs is that programming algorithm are not avaliable (even though chips are no longer produced).
You can find only some information in old ('90) databook.

Maybe it will be easier to reverse engineering it?
Do you have schematic of the device?
Is it a pinball or arcede game?

[COREi64]

The PAL is out of an old Commodore 64 accelerator cartridge called the TurboMaster CPU.  The chip in question is rather difficult to find and is required for an even more difficult to find "MasterAdapter" expander to function with it.  A friend has that chip and has determined that it can be duplicated.  I'd like to eventually duplicate it on my own (although he's offered to do it for me).

I've recreated the MA, and need to also include the PAL so that it can be utilized for all of it's available functions.

I have read about the process in which it could be reverse engineered, but that's sadly well beyond my capabilities at this time.  I'd love to be able to reverse engineer all four of the PALs on the accelerator board, but again... outside of my ability.

Finding an affordable way to duplicate the MA PAL is my immediate goal.

[up8051]

Is that device?
https://www.lyonlabs.org/commodore/hardware/index.html

First of all you should draw the shematic.
Maybe not all pins of PAL16R4 are used so reversing will be easier.

Eventually you can sent it to me, and I can try to read it in my Labtool

[up8051]

Some discussion about the same:
https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64006&start=0
On page 3 you can find schematic.

[up8051]

I found description of programming algorithm for OLD MMI PAL chips