Forum Moderation

[EEVblog]

@Dave, please consider moving the "Elon Musk" thread into the Supporters Lounge. It seems that the large majority of posters there are regulars with > 1000 posts anyway. That way you guys can ramble on at your hearts' content without setting a bad example to casual visitors.

Not a bad idea. The only downside is that the point of the thread is that if anyone brings up Musk in any other thread and tried to derail it, they can be directed there.
I've already said politics are not allowed. Will keep an eye on it.

[tggzzz]

If the behaviour seen in the Elon Musk thread spreads elsewhere, EEVBlog Forum will have taken a turn towards a bad direction.

That exact same stuff was already on the forum, just spread out in various different threads.

That's the hope, but it doesn't always work.

It was the justification for allowing curated street art in a local city. While not Banksy quality, some of the art wasn't bad.  But it encouraged people to plaster tags everywhere, and it looks a mess.

At least with usenet it is possible to ignore trolls and time wasters. That is not possible on a forum such as this, and it seems unlikely it can be made possible. (For the avoidance of doubt, the "ignore member" list is grossly deficient in that respect)

Skill issue.

Excellent! I would really like to gain those benefits.

Please tell me how I can avoid seeing any post in a thread by a named member, and any reply to that post. Both are necessary, because idiotic posts frequently cause multiple time wasting responses. (I realise that after seeing and recognising a thread started by a member I wish to ignore, I can ignore that thread. Rinse and repeat every time they start a thread)

It is, IMNSHO, a great shame that T3sl4co1l (Tim Williams, Seven Transistor Labs) stopped posting a year ago.

[EEVblog]

Please tell me how I can avoid seeing any post in a thread by a named member, and any reply to that post. Both are necessary, because idiotic posts frequently cause multiple time wasting responses.

Just click to show the hidden post, and then use your will power to not read what the person you hate wrote.

[TUMEMBER]

Please tell me how I can avoid seeing any post in a thread by a named member, and any reply to that post. Both are necessary, because idiotic posts frequently cause multiple time wasting responses.

Just click to show the hidden post, and then use your will power to not read what the person you hate wrote.

Exactly.
Although this mechanism sometimes "stuck" in my case. I'm trying to fix it, but it's a long and arduous process.

[tggzzz]

Please tell me how I can avoid seeing any post in a thread by a named member, and any reply to that post. Both are necessary, because idiotic posts frequently cause multiple time wasting responses.

Just click to show the hidden post, and then use your will power to not read what the person you hate wrote.

The replies are as irritating and time wasting as the original post - especially if they are in the middle of an otherwise interesting thread.  How, exactly, does your suggestion allow me to ignore replies to posts by people on my ignore list?

BTW I don't "hate" people on this forum, but a few do cause more than their fair share of wasted time.

[tautech]

Dunno how I missed this thread... 

On the OP's subject, we used to have this sticky thread until the Mods got nervous of our analysis of their actions:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/moderation-reports-84488/

It is essentially off-topic and could end up derailing this thread and/or getting it locked, or posts deleted etc.

If the Forum Moderation thread gets locked, where are we supposed to complain about make valuable suggestions regarding moderation? 

Actually I seem to recall that exactly this happened a year or two ago, and a new moderation-related thread was started immediately... Might have been a slightly different context though?

When no longer above sticky disappeared into oblivion just as they might have hoped.

However several of us have had another chance:

I get that moderation is hard, there are limited resources, and there are tradeoffs in any moderation actions taken... but I also wonder if this forum's standards are veering farther from the current "expected norms" of discourse by not exercising a bit more control, and as a result losing more potential members.

We have had to ban some of the top contributors to the forum. Even at one point, the biggest poster on the forum. How far do you want us to take it?
It would be impossible to moderate a forum to a point where someone doesn't take a offense. And if just that one person has reach online, it can literally take just one person to spread the rumor that the forum sucks etc.
So it doesn't matter how we do it, there will always be people who think this forum is full of xxxxxxxx and you should stay away. And likewise there will always be people who think this forum is over-moderated to the point that it should be avoided because of that.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/moderation-reports-84488/msg1158367/#msg1158367

Back to the OP...
Both bd139 and Joe are opinionated SOB's and each very intelligent and capable members but with very firm opinions be they right or wrong in our eyes.

But this is Dave's house and as guests we must play by his rules, period, however ongoing discussion must continue to take place in a board where only experienced members can participate.....for the long term good of the forum.



GWS G0HZU......like Tim your contributions are valuable.

[wilfred]

The replies are as irritating and time wasting as the original post - especially if they are in the middle of an otherwise interesting thread.  How, exactly, does your suggestion allow me to ignore replies to posts by people on my ignore list?

Years ago I leaned heavily on the ignore list but I abandoned that and trained myself to "avert my eyes". I don't remember where I first saw the phrase. It might have been in Yes Minister or Yes, Prime Minister TV series but I couldn't find it.

I found this clip on YT from a show I hadn't seen but the vibe is identical. 16 seconds.

[TUMEMBER]

FYI for those wondering, Joe still has not logged back in.

He remembers the old days, it's not that bad.

[EEVblog]

Back to the OP...
Both bd139 and Joe are opinionated SOB's and each very intelligent and capable members but with very firm opinions be they right or wrong in our eyes.
But this is Dave's house and as guests we must play by his rules, period, however ongoing discussion must continue to take place in a board where only experienced members can participate.....for the long term good of the forum.

Neither of which where ever banned, they left of their own accord.
BD139 still posts occasionally I think.

[EEVblog]

Please tell me how I can avoid seeing any post in a thread by a named member, and any reply to that post. Both are necessary, because idiotic posts frequently cause multiple time wasting responses.

Just click to show the hidden post, and then use your will power to not read what the person you hate wrote.

The replies are as irritating and time wasting as the original post - especially if they are in the middle of an otherwise interesting thread.  How, exactly, does your suggestion allow me to ignore replies to posts by people on my ignore list?

Again, a skill issue.
If you see that someone has obviously replied to someone you have blocked, then don't continue to read that post.

[tggzzz]

BD139 still posts occasionally I think.

I don't think so. Certainly not since February.

It may be a faulty.neuron firing, but ISTR him saying he had arranged it so that he could never post here again.

[EEVblog]

BD139 still posts occasionally I think.

I don't think so. Certainly not since February.

Correct, last login was Feb.

[tggzzz]

Please tell me how I can avoid seeing any post in a thread by a named member, and any reply to that post. Both are necessary, because idiotic posts frequently cause multiple time wasting responses.

Just click to show the hidden post, and then use your will power to not read what the person you hate wrote.

The replies are as irritating and time wasting as the original post - especially if they are in the middle of an otherwise interesting thread.  How, exactly, does your suggestion allow me to ignore replies to posts by people on my ignore list?

Again, a skill issue.
If you see that someone has obviously replied to someone you have blocked, then don't continue to read that post.

Sigh.

I have to read a reply before I can see that I should ignore it. That takes time and energy, and eventually people decide it isn't worth it.

On usenet there are tools so they could do something to avoid it; the tools do not exist on this forum.

Remember Gresham's law from 1857  "the bad (money) drives out the good". s/money/posts/

[EEVblog]

I have to read a reply before I can see that I should ignore it. That takes time and energy, and eventually people decide it isn't worth it.

No, you don't. That's a skill issue.

Sure, the Ignore plugin doesn't block someone else quoting them. But there name is the FIRST THING in the post. Just look at the name and you know you don't have the read that reply post any further.

[tggzzz]

I have to read a reply before I can see that I should ignore it. That takes time and energy, and eventually people decide it isn't worth it.

No, you don't. That's a skill issue.

Sure, the Ignore plugin doesn't block someone else quoting them. But there name is the FIRST THING in the post. Just look at the name and you know you don't have the read that reply post any further.

So we agree that subsequent replies mean the posts I wish to ignore are drawn to my attention. That's progress.

I have always tried avoid basing my assessment on what is being said rather than who is saying something. That way I avoid echo chambers, avoid fanbois worship, but am still open to unexpected ideas.  I'm not prepared to lose those benefits.

I regard that principle as a strength, but it fails when predictable nonsense is thrust in front of my eyes.

The unavoidable consequence in this context is that I read the rubbish before I notice who wrote it. The question is then whether Gresham's Law is becoming unacceptably obvious. Clearly that is a personal decision.

BD139 made his position very clear when he quit.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/forum-moderation/msg5804353/#msg5804353

TiN also made his position clear when he left.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/question-to-gnif-and-dave/msg4369111/#msg4369111 and his last message thereafter.

T3sl4co1l wasn't as explicit, but his posts shortly before leaving clearly express his exasperation
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hack-a-day-comment-censorship/msg5687017/#msg5687017 and other eloquent posts in that thread.

I miss all of their contributions: I learned a lot from their posts.

[BradC]

I have always tried avoid basing my assessment on what is being said rather than who is saying something. That way I avoid echo chambers, avoid fanbois worship, but am still open to unexpected ideas.  I'm not prepared to lose those benefits.

And yet you're whining about being shown stuff from people you don't have the intestinal fortitude to scroll past and ignore?

[tggzzz]

I have always tried avoid basing my assessment on what is being said rather than who is saying something. That way I avoid echo chambers, avoid fanbois worship, but am still open to unexpected ideas.  I'm not prepared to lose those benefits.

And yet you're whining about being shown stuff from people you don't have the intestinal fortitude to scroll past and ignore?

Nope, as I have explained.

EDIT: see shapirus' accurate summary https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/forum-moderation/msg6113971/#msg6113971

[EEVblog]

So we agree that subsequent replies mean the posts I wish to ignore are drawn to my attention. That's progress.

Oh no, the forum doesn't present the perfect exact information you are personally interested in and nothing you don't want - the humanity!

BD139 made his position very clear when he quit.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/forum-moderation/msg5804353/#msg5804353

And yet there I am battling it out in the Elon Musk thread against people who WANT to flood this forum with off-topic politics 

I'm yet to hear of this perfect forum where every one is 100% happy and there are no arguments

FYI, bd139 complains about "endless tolerated troll threads and sick and disgusting behaviour by a lot of your forum members"
Yet did he report them? No, no he didn't.

TiN also made his position clear when he left.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/question-to-gnif-and-dave/msg4369111/#msg4369111 and his last message thereafter.

So you think I should allow people to put political hashtags in their signature?, something visible on every post they have ever made.

Tell me, how do you think I should run this forum exactly?

[thm_w]

I miss all of their contributions: I learned a lot from their posts.

Agree for sure, though I think TiN's reasoning for leaving is opposite to the point you are making, if that is what you were trying to do. Reducing off topic politics is a direction and effort by mods that is appreciated. Hopefully attracting less people like this guy.

[EEVblog]

I miss all of their contributions: I learned a lot from their posts.

Agree for sure, though I think TiN's reasoning for leaving is opposite to the point you are making, if that is what you were trying to do. Reducing off topic politics is a direction and effort by mods that is appreciated. Hopefully attracting less people like this guy.

To be clear, TiN left because the tag #StopRussianWar was removed from his bio, for obvious reasons, and he was not happy that was done (as it would have been (as has been done) for anyone)
As I explained clearly in that thread:

I did not see your offending signature, I see gnif removed it. If I did see such a hashtag in a bio then I would have removed it too.
Why? Because one of things we don't allow on here is discussion of wars.
Having such a hashtag in your bio is tantamount to having every one of your posts right across the forum branded with a political message about a war.
I don't think it's too much to ask to keep such things off the forum? 
We'd do the same if people were inclduing #BlackLivesMatter or #GetTheVaccine or #Trump2024 or #InsertCurrentThingHere

The problem with signatures is that they instantly propagate on all your posts on the forum and are generaterd dynamically every time someone loads the page. This has massive more visibility than a single off-topic post somewhere which isn't a big deal in comparison. This is why we have to be rather careful and picky about what people put in their bio's, and what is encouraged. If we allow #StopRussianWar then it would be open season on social hashtag messages.

Maybe the rules need updating to clarify that people shouldn't put the latest political thing in their bio? We have that bio personal text section enabled because there are special cases where it's needed, like for example a company rep can identify themselves as such. I think at one point we had it shut off, or discussed doing so because it was being abused. I don't recall details though, it was a long time ago.
Similar discussions have been had with signatures under posts."

Am I supposed to make special political expression exceptions for some people, lest they leave? If so, why?

[magic]

I have always tried avoid basing my assessment on what is being said rather than who is saying something. That way I avoid echo chambers, avoid fanbois worship, but am still open to unexpected ideas.  I'm not prepared to lose those benefits.

And yet you're whining about being shown stuff from people you don't have the intestinal fortitude to scroll past and ignore?

After you see an unexpected idea too many times from the same poster it does become expected, though.

But as Dave pointed out, every post begins with username of the author and almost all replies begin with a quote and username of whoever is being replied to, so actually practicing prejudice isn't really that hard. Speaking from experience

I think the real problem of, ehm, certain loudly complaining members, is XKCD 386 mentality and obsessive stalking of others they disagree with.

[shapirus]

It was stated that it was possible to ignore users using only the forum engine's technical means.

There was a counter-argument to that, that it was only a partial solution, as it doesn't allow to hide replies to ignored users.

Proposing to skip replies by scrolling down does not counter that counter-argument, because it is not a feature of the forum's engine.

Bottom line: yes, the forum allows to ignore users, but it is only a partial solution to the problem, because skipping replies to them still requires human interaction in every occurence.

Seems clear as day to me.

[EEVblog]

It was stated that it was possible to ignore users using only the forum engine's technical means.
There was a counter-argument to that, that it was only a partial solution, as it doesn't allow to hide replies to ignored users.
Proposing to skip replies by scrolling down does not counter that counter-argument, because it is not a feature of the forum's engine.
Bottom line: yes, the forum allows to ignore users, but it is only a partial solution to the problem, because skipping replies to them still requires human interaction in every occurence.
Seems clear as day to me.

Correct, welcome to the real world.
Literally everything on this site "requires human interaction" i.e. decision of what to read and what not to read.
Every time you look at the Show New Replies To Your Posts list you have to scroll through and decide what you are and aren't going to look at, perhaps even depending on who replied to the thread.
And this is just for the threads you are interested in because you have replied to them before.
Searching the new threads list is another level again.

[tggzzz]

It was stated that it was possible to ignore users using only the forum engine's technical means.

There was a counter-argument to that, that it was only a partial solution, as it doesn't allow to hide replies to ignored users.

Proposing to skip replies by scrolling down does not counter that counter-argument, because it is not a feature of the forum's engine.

Bottom line: yes, the forum allows to ignore users, but it is only a partial solution to the problem, because skipping replies to them still requires human interaction in every occurence.

Seems clear as day to me.

Precisely.

it isn't rocket science!

[tggzzz]

So we agree that subsequent replies mean the posts I wish to ignore are drawn to my attention. That's progress.

Oh no, the forum doesn't present the perfect exact information you are personally interested in and nothing you don't want - the humanity!

I refer you to shapirus' terse and accurate summary in a later post.

BD139 made his position very clear when he quit.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/forum-moderation/msg5804353/#msg5804353

And yet there I am battling it out in the Elon Musk thread against people who WANT to flood this forum with off-topic politics 

IMNSHO based on Musk's recent actions, it is impossible to simultaneously have a thread about him and to ignore his political actions.

You mentioned that you regard it as on-topic to discuss Tesla and FSD.
Would it be acceptable or unacceptable to discuss why multiple US regulatory bodies' are investigating FSD?
Would it be acceptable or unacceptable to discuss whether they continue or abandon such investigations? And why?

FYI, bd139 complains about "endless tolerated troll threads and sick and disgusting behaviour by a lot of your forum members"
Yet did he report them? No, no he didn't.

It is a judgement call whether to report someone and whether to ban them; personally I dislike doing so for many practical and philosophical reasons.

BD139 had seen the consequences of reporting members and subsequent moderation in the TEA thread, and he stated that influenced his thinking. In particular he drew attention to what he regarded as inconsistencies.

TiN also made his position clear when he left.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/question-to-gnif-and-dave/msg4369111/#msg4369111 and his last message thereafter.

So you think I should allow people to put political hashtags in their signature?, something visible on every post they have ever made.

Tell me, how do you think I should run this forum exactly?

Personally I don't regard TiN's portmanteau word hashtag as being unacceptably political, and I see far worse on the forum everyday.

You define the zeitgeist of this neighbourhood.

As with physical neighbourhoods, the zeitgeist can mutate over time. Sometimes people feel the zeitgeist has mutated unpleasantly, draw attention to the change, and try to reverse the change. If they fail, their only option is to leave.