Forum Moderation

[EEVblog]

...What I don't understand is, if the interpretation given above is correct and that's the MO for the site, then why are some of these threads allowed to exist? I'm not in favour of heavy handed micro-moderation but, to take the case in recent point, to my mind the Thunderf00t thread has absolutely no relevancy or value to the topic of EE, the EE industry or EE education....

Agree and I don't understand it as well outside of using the site to push your own agenda. 

Thunderf00t is a huge and long time Youtubers with many overlaps to our community in terms of debunking and science. There is massive overlap in our audiences, and we have dedicated section on this forum for discussion of other video creators.
But I just noticed that the Thunderf00t thread is in the General Chat section, so I'll move it to the more appropriate Other Blogs section where it should have been.

Again, I don't understand people complaining about a subject that they have no interest in, just ignore the thread. Other people want to discuss another creators, and it's on-topic for this forum and the interests of many people on this forum.

[MK14]

I've enjoyed and learnt a lot from this thread, so far, thanks everyone, for sharing your views.  It has opened my eyes, to all the differing viewpoints and opinions, (a subset of) everyone on the forums perceptions.

A bit like a recent plane crash, where various videos, at different times and positions, get shown.  Perhaps some doorbell footage, of an initial huge explosion, another (possibly a mobile/cell phone), with lots of firetrucks and emergency workers, attending to a major incident, and potentially others, as well.

It saddens me, that what happens, on this forum, sometimes, causes upset, and people end up taking a break, or even not returning.

All these (my opinion) differing opinions, sheds further light on how hard moderating a forum is, in practice.

I guess, you can't keep everyone happy, all of the time.

[vk6zgo]

I think the issue is that the 'troll threads'  get quite extreme and you end up with two sides having very bad feelings about each other. That upsets other, technical, threads because it then becomes two hardline opponents looking to diss the other rather than a couple of techies shooting the breeze.

I pointed out years ago that it is perilously easy to make deadly enemies on the Internet.
Just try mentioning "electron flow" over on "AAC"----it brings the proponents of "Conventional current flow" out "loaded for bear".

Even on this Forum, a mild comment about someone's phrasing in an answer to a beginner was enough to start the "rage-foam" flowing from one of the "usual suspects".

Mostly, I just avoid those who I have had "run-ins" with, but over time, I have noticed that they seem to have become the majority, so I "second think" my postings a lot more.
With that along with the "TEA" blowout, I don't spend that much time here, anymore.

[wilfred]

Thunderf00t is a huge and long time Youtubers with many overlaps to our community in terms of debunking and science. There is massive overlap in our audiences, and we have dedicated section on this forum for discussion of other video creators.
But I just noticed that the Thunderf00t thread is in the General Chat section, so I'll move it to the more appropriate Other Blogs section where it should have been.

Again, I don't understand people complaining about a subject that they have no interest in, just ignore the thread. Other people want to discuss another creators, and it's on-topic for this forum and the interests of many people on this forum.

That would be the "General Technical Chat" section that you presumably had a reason to change and specify Technical some years ago. I am testing my memory here but maybe 8 years ago these sort of off-topic pseudo political threads would have 50% of posts made by the top 10 posters in the thread. You yourself could easily be 10%+ in some, perhaps most, cases. Based on numbers I collected back then I am going to dispute the claim that many people on this forum are all that interested. I think a tiny fraction of members are interested.

You clearly tolerate them and participating in them sends a very clear message to others.

[EEVblog]

Thunderf00t is a huge and long time Youtubers with many overlaps to our community in terms of debunking and science. There is massive overlap in our audiences, and we have dedicated section on this forum for discussion of other video creators.
But I just noticed that the Thunderf00t thread is in the General Chat section, so I'll move it to the more appropriate Other Blogs section where it should have been.

Again, I don't understand people complaining about a subject that they have no interest in, just ignore the thread. Other people want to discuss another creators, and it's on-topic for this forum and the interests of many people on this forum.

That would be the "General Technical Chat" section that you presumably had a reason to change and specify Technical some years ago. I am testing my memory here but maybe 8 years ago these sort of off-topic pseudo political threads would have 50% of posts made by the top 10 posters in the thread. You yourself could easily be 10%+ in some, perhaps most, cases. Based on numbers I collected back then I am going to dispute the claim that many people on this forum are all that interested. I think a tiny fraction of members are interested.

You clearly tolerate them and participating in them sends a very clear message to others.

The Thunderf00t thread is completely on topic for this forum.
He's a fellow Youtube creator and debunker, and I guess I'd call him a friend as well, so of course I'm going to contribute as I have an interest in it.
If you don't like it, don't read threads like that, it's in the title, not hard to avoid.

As for other topics, they usually start out innocently enough, but thread (even completely on-topic technical ones) often drift into other areas, that's just going to happen on a community forum like this where people like to hang around and essentially chat.
This forum has been operating just fine for almost 15 years based on the moderation we do here. Sometimes threads drift a bit off-topic and that's generally ok, and the thread usually drift back on-topic.
This forum is what YOU make it. If you see a thread drifting off-topic in way you don't like, YOU have the power to pull it back on topic by, surprise, posting on-topic replies.

Maybe start your reply with a gentle hint like "Bringing this thread back onto topic, I think that resistor R18 might be the culprit..."
That can provide a subtle hint to others that the drift off-topic wasn't appreciated. It's not just moderators that have the power to influence the direction of a thread.

[MK14]

I agree with BD139's initial statement about the lower signal to noise levels here.   I don't see how allowing, and in some cases contributing, to these non-technical discussions helps.   To me, when owner/mods partake in a non-technical discussion it just adds to my confusion. 

My understanding, is that what often happens, is that one or more 'Report to moderator', reports has been created, for that thread.

So, member(s) of the moderation team, have joined the thread.  Indicating to people who have reported it, that the moderators are now watching it, and to keep an eye on it, and if necessary intervene, such as by locking the thread, if it goes out of hand.

I was planning, to also say (as EEVblog's David has already said in this thread), that thunderf00t, has in the past, done many technical, relevant to this forum, videos.  Sometimes similar, to what appears in our Dodgy Technology, sub-forum.

[vk6zgo]

I have the suspicion that some members have learned/decided to "weaponise" the mod's limited time and attention. The basic technique is to be sufficiently objectionable that other members become intemperate, then report a post to the mods. The mods look at that post and (understandably) don't have the time/effort/inclination to understand the entire thread, so delete that post.

I have suspected that as well after noticing a pattern with certain members.   I've only reported one member over the years that I can think of. 

If they took a hard stance to temp ban anyone commenting on politics, religion, race, sexual preference.   I don't see that ever happening.

I don't spend a lot of time on the forum these days, firstly after the whole TEA bust up, secondly because I have better things to do with my time and thirdly because it's turned into a cesspit of fucking morons.

It's all blackjack and hookers....

On the other hand, bashing hams is OK, ---because?

[EEVblog]

I was planning, to also say (as EEVblog's David has already said in this thread), that thunderf00t, has in the past, done many technical, relevant to this forum, videos.  Sometimes similar, to what appears in our Dodgy Technology, sub-forum.

There is literally a forum section that has, and I quote:

Other Blogs
Got your own blog/youtube channel? Want to post someone else's content and talk about it? You can do that here.

In this case the OP posted it in the wrong General Chat section. I have since moved it.

[Shock]

What happened in the Tea thread, did buying get too intense or something?

[vk6zgo]

I have the suspicion that some members have learned/decided to "weaponise" the mod's limited time and attention. The basic technique is to be sufficiently objectionable that other members become intemperate, then report a post to the mods. The mods look at that post and (understandably) don't have the time/effort/inclination to understand the entire thread, so delete that post.

I agree. I have spotted this tactic as well even leading to banning members.

This is "standard operating procedure" on "Whirlpool"---post something that is demonstrably incorrect, prompting another poster to describe exactly why it is wrong.

For their pains, the second poster has their posting deleted as "off topic".

Try to make factual rebuttals to barefaced lies enough time & you will be banned.
That forum seems to want to keep discussion to the level of "Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!-----Yer mother wears army boots!"

To add insult to injury, after permanently banning me from the "politics" section, they had the audacity to say "you can still participate" in the other forum sections!
I respectfully declined!

[tggzzz]

This forum has been operating just fine for almost 15 years based on the moderation we do here. Sometimes threads drift a bit off-topic and that's generally ok, and the thread usually drift back on-topic.

Yes.

That is a necessary part of the forum's success, but it isn't sufficient. We also need high quality posts.

Several people have noted that it feels like there are fewer high quality posts, and that there are more inane (my definition, which I'm not sharing!) posts.

The world is becoming horribly polarised into black-and-white Them and Us, where Us is favoured and They are beneath contempt and to be nuked. That is, unsurprisingly, spilling over into the forum. 

How is it spilling over? Often by the use of "keywords" that are used to stir up hatred and division. Even though such keywords are overtly political in nature, they are tolerated and even applied with abandon.

That's a crying shame, and - as with society in general - doesn't bode well for the future.

[EEVblog]

What happened in the Tea thread, did buying get too intense or something?

Something, something, something, a moderator deleted a post, all hell broke loose, something, something, something, were offered their own section and moderator but they declined, then a handful of regular people left and started their own TEA forum which only lasted a few months, some returned I think, and I think they are now on Discord.

[EEVblog]

This forum has been operating just fine for almost 15 years based on the moderation we do here. Sometimes threads drift a bit off-topic and that's generally ok, and the thread usually drift back on-topic.

Yes.

That is a necessary part of the forum's success, but it isn't sufficient. We also need high quality posts.

Several people have noted that it feels like there are fewer high quality posts, and that there are more inane (my definition, which I'm not sharing!) posts.

Not in my experience.
And as I said, the forum is what YOU make it. Want high quality posts?, thn only post high quality posts, set the example.

Sorry, but any "community" based forum is ultimately going to morph into more of a social chat thing, it's just human nature. Trying to "sterilise" this into a 100% technical and every single other post micro-moderated and deleted, is doomed to failure.

[joeqsmith]

...What I don't understand is, if the interpretation given above is correct and that's the MO for the site, then why are some of these threads allowed to exist? I'm not in favour of heavy handed micro-moderation but, to take the case in recent point, to my mind the Thunderf00t thread has absolutely no relevancy or value to the topic of EE, the EE industry or EE education....

Agree and I don't understand it as well outside of using the site to push your own agenda. 

Thunderf00t is a huge and long time Youtubers with many overlaps to our community in terms of debunking and science. There is massive overlap in our audiences, and we have dedicated section on this forum for discussion of other video creators.
But I just noticed that the Thunderf00t thread is in the General Chat section, so I'll move it to the more appropriate Other Blogs section where it should have been.

Again, I don't understand people complaining about a subject that they have no interest in, just ignore the thread. Other people want to discuss another creators, and it's on-topic for this forum and the interests of many people on this forum.

As BD139 stated: 

Compared to 5 years ago we have now is endless tolerated troll threads and sick and disgusting behaviour by a lot of your forum members.

The very first post of that thread you mention is political.  It was meant to troll and it was allowed to stay up.  As usual, other posters get caught up and are reprimanded.  The OP, which is the root cause, gets nothing.  Same old song and dance.   

I doubt I contributed to that thread as I don't come to EEVBLOG to discuss politics.  I am interested in how the forum is operated and tend to agree with BD139's OP.

[EEVblog]

I doubt I contributed to that thread as I don't come to EEVBLOG to discuss politics.  I am interested in how the forum is operated and tend to agree with BD139's OP.

You agree with BD139's original post where he called this forum a "cesspit of fucking morons" and "corpus of assholes in an echo chamber. When I say assholes, this is interchangeable with fascists"?

By many accounts here it seems, it's BD139 that should have been banned for that, right? 

The "intention" of the original post on the TF thread was a legitiment topic for discussion though, i.e. has TF's content changed and how he focusses on one thing now. Was it somewhat a "political" post, yeah, but it was still on topic. And ZERO people reported it.
Again, if you dodn't like the thread you didn't have to read it.
But unfortunately the thread literally devolved into discussion of nazi's before it was reported and delt with.

'Oh but it wouldn't have devolved into nazi's if you had deleted it then and there' : I've seen 100% technical threads devolve into nazi discussions, it's so common there is literally a term for it, Godwin's law.
I can't go around locking/deleting every single thread with a hint that it might devolve into Godwin's Law.

[joeqsmith]

On the other hand, bashing hams is OK, ---because?

I can't speak for BD139 but having dealt with enough of them over the past few years, they certainly have earned a special place. 

[nctnico]

What happened in the Tea thread, did buying get too intense or something?

Something, something, something, a moderator deleted a post, all hell broke loose, something, something, something, were offered their own section and moderator but they declined, then a handful of regular people left and started their own TEA forum which only lasted a few months, some returned I think, and I think they are now on Discord.

Drama queens galore 

[EEVblog]

It should be noted that the TEA group that left have these rules on their forum:

In addition to the Groups.io rules of conduct, TEA does not permit discussions of contentious topics which include, but are not limited to, politics, religion, race, sensitive current events, etc. In other words, we're all here to enjoy camaraderie based on test equipment and electronics, not to start conflicts. To that end, off-topic discussions are to be expected, but don't derail the main subject of someone else's topic. Just create a new one for the desired discussion and use the #TEAngents tag, if the subject matter doesn't fit any other one.

Literally exactly the same system we operate under here. But apprently the devil is in the minute detail of how it's micro-moderated.
Yet somewhow the moderators here are expected to be absolutely perfect and meet every single persons desires of how a forum should be moderated

[joeqsmith]

I doubt I contributed to that thread as I don't come to EEVBLOG to discuss politics.  I am interested in how the forum is operated and tend to agree with BD139's OP.

You agree with BD139's original post where he called this forum a "cesspit of fucking morons" and "corpus of assholes in an echo chamber. When I say assholes, this is interchangeable with fascists"?

By many accounts here it seems, it's BD139 that should have been banned for that, right? 

The "intention" of the original post on the TF thread was a legitiment topic for discussion though, i.e. has TF's content changed and how he focusses on one thing now. Was it somewhat a "political" post, yeah, but it was still on topic. And ZERO people reported it.
Again, if you dodn't like the thread you didn't have to read it.

I did quote their statement that I agree with but you chose to ignore that for what ever reason.   

I don't think I have ever reported any post beyond the recent free energy scammer.   If he hadn't been polluting that particular thread, I wouldn't have cared.   Don't take my lack of reporting as an indication of my acceptance.   Like BD139, I always figured once the noise level got high enough, I would just bow out.  Similar to why I have not watched television in a few decades.    No drama.   

[MK14]

Drama queens galore 

A big Electronics Forum, with a vibrant, diverse range of users.  Can be a very useful place, for appropriate electronics discussions.

It would be better, to try and understand and help, other users, if they are very unhappy with any moderation, rather than simply give them a somewhat rude label.

Rather than them ending up quitting, en-masse.

EDIT: Just because one of more users, have over these 15 years (I think has been said), not fully agreed with the moderation team, doesn't mean there is necessarily anything wrong with the moderation team, who have a (at times), very difficult job to do.

[EEVblog]

I did quote their statement that I agree with but you chose to ignore that for what ever reason.   

You literally said this, which I quoted:
"I am interested in how the forum is operated and tend to agree with BD139's OP."
That means this entire OP, not one section of it.
I was just pointing out that he said stuff in that OP that most people would agree is ban worthy, right?
Worse than the original Thunderf00t OP, would you not agree?

I don't think I have ever reported any post beyond the recent free energy scammer.   If he hadn't been polluting that particular thread, I wouldn't have cared.   Don't take my lack of reporting as an indication of my acceptance.   Like BD139, I always figured once the noise level got high enough, I would just bow out.  Similar to why I have not watched television in a few decades.    No drama.

It's not hard to avoid drama on a forum, just stick to threads you create or threads that iterest you, and ignore threads like, I don't know, have the title like "Thunderf00t has lost last of his marbles and remaining bits of credibility" perhaps?
Reading that title before you click it's OBVIOUS that thread is going to contain some heated personal opinion. No one was tricked into viewing the thread, or having had the thread suddly change topic on you from some innocent technical subject.

As I said, such a thread is obviously on topic for this forum. But if it was "MrBeast has lost last of his marbles and remaining bits of credibility" it would have been deleted or locked right away as being off topic. And that happens quite a bit when people posts off topic youtube videos.

[joeqsmith]

I did quote their statement that I agree with but you chose to ignore that for what ever reason.   

You literally said this, which I quoted:
"I am interested in how the forum is operated and tend to agree with BD139's OP."
That means this entire OP, not one section of it.
I was just pointing out that he said stuff in that OP that most people would agree is ban worthy, right?
Worse than the original Thunderf00t OP, would you not agree?

I don't think I have ever reported any post beyond the recent free energy scammer.   If he hadn't been polluting that particular thread, I wouldn't have cared.   Don't take my lack of reporting as an indication of my acceptance.   Like BD139, I always figured once the noise level got high enough, I would just bow out.  Similar to why I have not watched television in a few decades.    No drama.

It's not hard to avoid drama on a forum, just stick to threads you create or threads that iterest you, and ignore threads like, I don't know, have the title like "Thunderf00t has lost last of his marbles and remaining bits of credibility" perhaps?
Reading that title before you click it's OBVIOUS that thread is going to contain some heated personal opinion. No one was tricked into viewing the thread, or having had the thread suddly change topic on you from some innocent technical subject.

As I said, such a thread is obviously on topic for this forum. But if it was "MrBeast has lost last of his marbles and remaining bits of credibility" it would have been deleted or locked right away as being off topic. And that happens quite a bit when people posts off topic youtube videos.

Again, I quoted the BD139's text and explained I quoted it.  Yet you once again ignore that. 

There are a few who often start and/or join in off-topic threads about politics, religion, sexual preference...  that I would certainly ban if that's all they bring to the table.  But again, your forum to do with as you like.  This includes banning those you see fit. 

If you are asking if I would ban BD139 for calling out this problem in a colorful manor,  then the answer is no.   I would think that would have been clear when I stated I agreed with them.  So maybe a twofer?  Your call. 

Sure, I can and do ignore most of the threads.  That's not a problem.  I'm just surprised by the amount of non-technical traffic allowed and seemingly promoted. 

[MK14]

If anyone is not familiar with what had happened, with the TEA thread, as I didn't know as much as I'd like to.  Here is what appears to be a 21 page discussion about it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/

EDIT: A somewhat quick glance at it.  Seems to show that there was disagreement between members, as to who wanted some off-topic posts, in it, or not, and concerns over its moderation.
I think forum rules were being broken, by things (off-topic) such as quick fire-arms discussions, IIRC.

[EEVblog]

Sure, I can and do ignore most of the threads.  That's not a problem.  I'm just surprised by the amount of non-technical traffic allowed and seemingly promoted.

Nothing here is not "promoted" (apart from pinned threads). Threads live or die (very quickly) by participation.
The moderators job is to stop the wheels from falling off the billy cart, not to construct a billy cart so safe that it can't possibly hurt or offend anyone.

[EEVblog]

EDIT: A somewhat quick glance at it.  Seems to show that there was disagreement between members, as to who wanted some off-topic posts, in it, or not, and concerns over its moderation.

How ironic.
The literal thing Joeqsmith wants (heavier moderation of off-topic posts) caused the exodus of some of the biggest users in the biggest thread on the forum.