Author Topic: Components you wish existed.  (Read 60461 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4137
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #125 on: May 24, 2017, 07:26:05 am »
Regarding voice output for multimeters, is there enough physical/electrical/data commonality between multimeter data outputs to be able to make a generic product, or would it need to be customised for each model? My Bryman multimeter has an optical interface but I don't know how common or interchangeable this is.

Kickstarter anyone? I would buy one for sure.

I'd guess the physical interface is a fairly minor thing, AFAIK they're all serial out over some interface so a bunch of interface 'modules' feeding a speech box that 'talks' the various protocols?

I'm in for the kickstarter too, I like the idea even if I've not got a regular use for it.
 

Offline e100

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 558
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #126 on: May 24, 2017, 07:59:24 am »
Regarding voice output for multimeters, is there enough physical/electrical/data commonality between multimeter data outputs to be able to make a generic product, or would it need to be customised for each model? My Bryman multimeter has an optical interface but I don't know how common or interchangeable this is.

Kickstarter anyone? I would buy one for sure.
I'd guess the physical interface is a fairly minor thing..

Based on the only one I've seen, if you don't already have a cable kit from the manufacturer, it's going to need a custom 3d printed or injection molded part that slots into the body of the multimeter so that the Tx Rx LEDs line up.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jLoAAOxyUgtTJ-YS/s-l1600.jpg

I have no idea if there is a de facto standard for this sort of thing.

Alternatively to save cost it could just have a DB9 or USB connector, leaving the customer to supply the correct interface cable.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:56:07 am by e100 »
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4137
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #127 on: May 24, 2017, 10:14:47 am »
Regarding voice output for multimeters, is there enough physical/electrical/data commonality between multimeter data outputs to be able to make a generic product, or would it need to be customised for each model? My Bryman multimeter has an optical interface but I don't know how common or interchangeable this is.

Kickstarter anyone? I would buy one for sure.
I'd guess the physical interface is a fairly minor thing..

Based on the only one I've seen, if you don't already have a cable kit from the manufacturer, it's going to need a custom 3 printed or injection molded part that slots into the body of the multimeter so that the Tx Rx LEDs line up.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jLoAAOxyUgtTJ-YS/s-l1600.jpg

I have no idea if there is a de facto standard for this sort of thing.

Alternatively to save cost it could just have a DB9 or USB connector, leaving to the customer to supply the correct interface cable.

Bad wording on my part, I was meaning the transport (as in PHY, the physical layer) will be IR, RF, Serial, USB or some variant of such and fairly trivial to interface but I'd not expect the mechanical attachment across brands to be standard.

It may well be possible to 3D print clones and I'd take that route at least at first though I doubt it'd be mass market enough to warrant having molds made if the connector wasn't 'off the shelf'.

 

Offline uwezi

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Country: se
    • GreenPhotons
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #128 on: May 24, 2017, 02:24:45 pm »
regarding the 4-pin PWM-device: something like an ATtiny5/6/9? it comes in a 6-pin SOT23 package, compelet with 8-bit ADC and 16-bit PWM  :)
 

Offline alanambrose

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 377
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #129 on: May 24, 2017, 09:04:09 pm »
Ummm, diode, mosfet, & MLCCs (say just 100nF to begin with) in x4 and x8 arrays.

Alan
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"
 

Offline ZaneKaminski

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 30
  • Country: us
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #130 on: May 25, 2017, 02:40:51 am »
A digital scope with waveform update rate constrained only by the sample rate of the scope, i.e. no dead time between acquisitions. Therefore the scope could capture every single trigger-worthy event occurring and combine into a single intensity-graded waveform picture.

Large-value (~10 uF) *medium* ESR ceramic capacitors. Most existing ones have frustratingly low ESR for bypassing applications.

BJT-type device with tightly controlled gain factor between individual devices, over a wide temperature range, etc. Also for there to exist common values for gain.
 

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3630
  • Country: us
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #131 on: May 25, 2017, 04:35:28 am »
Large-value (~10 uF) *medium* ESR ceramic capacitors. Most existing ones have frustratingly low ESR for bypassing applications.
Is there any reason that simply adding a resistor in series won't work?
 

Offline uwezi

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
  • Country: se
    • GreenPhotons
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #132 on: May 25, 2017, 08:58:50 am »
Regarding the multimeter with voice output - those were around already in the mid 1990s - a friend had one and it was just annoying, like everything with a voice output which would babble around all the time, unasked for...

Most of my modern multimeters have "auto-power-off" which is equally annoying!
 

Offline PointyOintment

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 327
  • Country: ca
  • ↑ I scanned my face
I refuse to use AD's LTspice or any other "free" software whose license agreement prohibits benchmarking it (which implies it's really bad) or publicly disclosing the existence of the agreement. Fortunately, I haven't agreed to that one, and those terms are public already.
 

Offline e100

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 558
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #134 on: May 25, 2017, 10:41:42 am »
Regarding the multimeter with voice output - those were around already in the mid 1990s - a friend had one and it was just annoying, like everything with a voice output which would babble around all the time, unasked for...

The trick is to make it speak at the right time. For bench use, a simple momentary foot switch would do the job.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 10:49:58 am by e100 »
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10576
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #135 on: May 25, 2017, 10:44:25 am »
Large-value (~10 uF) *medium* ESR ceramic capacitors. Most existing ones have frustratingly low ESR for bypassing applications.

Not if your control loop is properly designed. There are tons of LDO/SMPS controllers that can operate at nearly zero ESR, as long as they're designed properly.

What's that got to do with the price of fish? There are plenty of places one needs some bypassing (with the damping of moderate ESR) that are nowhere near a PSU or its control loop, or a control loop of any kind.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4527
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #136 on: May 25, 2017, 11:20:05 am »
Primary and rechargeable batteries, at reasonable cost, which are guaranteed (and really) never leak.

Electrolytic Capacitors (i.e. low cost, relatively high capacitance value) which DON'T leak and/or significantly deteriorate, over a large number of years.

Ammo roll component strips/reels, which can peel apart by hand, and leave NO residue (similar to post it notes adhesive, or compressed paper friction holding them WITHOUT glue). Which saves having to cut them out (but hence shorter leads), to avoid dealing with sticky residues, or use components NOT in strips (i.e. boxed loose).

More distinctive/standardized ways of indicating polarity on LEDs.

UV ink printing on smaller surface mount components, so more information (such as values, type etc) can be gleamed from them (with a UV torch or similar) when repairing/inspecting, hand prototyping etc.

Linear voltage regulators designed and guaranteed to almost always fail open circuit, at regular prices.

Put in some kind of anti-fake technology, so that fake components can readily be identified, and rejected/replaced.
E.g. Holograms, encrypted info built into chips, security numbers, micro-dot technology, etc etc.
Something really cheap, easy (and low cost) to check for fakes and yet highly difficult/expensive to defeat.
Include manufactured date (via the encryption/hologram etc, as labels could be over-written), so that reused/used components (from scrapped goods) can also be detected.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 11:22:51 am by MK14 »
 
The following users thanked this post: PointyOintment

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3630
  • Country: us
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #137 on: May 25, 2017, 02:57:37 pm »
Electrolytic Capacitors (i.e. low cost, relatively high capacitance value) which DON'T leak and/or significantly deteriorate, over a large number of years.
Tantalum and aluminum capacitors with solid polymer electrolyte are available. Well known types include Sanyo OS-CON and others.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16512
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #138 on: May 25, 2017, 05:50:20 pm »
Electrolytic Capacitors (i.e. low cost, relatively high capacitance value) which DON'T leak and/or significantly deteriorate, over a large number of years.

Tantalum and aluminum capacitors with solid polymer electrolyte are available. Well known types include Sanyo OS-CON and others.

Solid polymer electrolytic capacitors have their own wearout mechanism; the polymer degrades following the usual Arrhenius equation halving their operating lifetime for every 10C temperature rise.  Their big advantage is lower ESR yielding lower power dissipation and operating temperature.

The closest thing to an electrolytic capacitor which does not wear out is a solid or wet tantalum capacitor (1) but these have their own issues and high price.  In practice an almost arbitrarily long operating life can be gained using normal aluminum electrolytic or polymer electrolytic capacitors with suitable derating.

(1) And niobium oxide capacitors?
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4206
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #139 on: May 25, 2017, 09:12:19 pm »
I used niobium oxide caps some years ago... from what I recall they were only available with low-ish voltage ratings. Maybe that's changed now?

(To those who aren't familiar with them, they look like tantalum caps but orange instead of yellow. Functionally they're similar, but with less of a tendency to catch fire when abused).

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16512
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #140 on: May 26, 2017, 12:40:26 am »
I used niobium oxide caps some years ago... from what I recall they were only available with low-ish voltage ratings. Maybe that's changed now?

That is still the case.  10 volts at 100 microfarads is the largest available and they are only available in surface mount.  Dissipation and leakage are about twice as bad as equivalent solid tantalum capacitors and solid tantalum capacitors can have much lower ESR.  Price is only about 10% better for the same ESR.
 

Offline Cicada

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • Country: za
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #141 on: May 26, 2017, 07:56:43 am »
Great question.

I am looking forward to reading all the posts on this thread.
 

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4527
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2017, 01:39:43 am »
Electrolytic Capacitors (i.e. low cost, relatively high capacitance value) which DON'T leak and/or significantly deteriorate, over a large number of years.
Tantalum and aluminum capacitors with solid polymer electrolyte are available. Well known types include Sanyo OS-CON and others.

Thanks. That is good to know.
They seem to be popular, on better quality motherboards.
At the very least, they get rid of the possibility of the liquid electrolyte leaking, since it would then be solid.

I guess there tendency to have lower max working voltages is fine for usually low voltage motherboard applications, which appreciate the better life expectancy and other characteristic improvements.
 

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4527
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #143 on: May 27, 2017, 01:47:24 am »
Electrolytic Capacitors (i.e. low cost, relatively high capacitance value) which DON'T leak and/or significantly deteriorate, over a large number of years.

Tantalum and aluminum capacitors with solid polymer electrolyte are available. Well known types include Sanyo OS-CON and others.

Solid polymer electrolytic capacitors have their own wearout mechanism; the polymer degrades following the usual Arrhenius equation halving their operating lifetime for every 10C temperature rise.  Their big advantage is lower ESR yielding lower power dissipation and operating temperature.

The closest thing to an electrolytic capacitor which does not wear out is a solid or wet tantalum capacitor (1) but these have their own issues and high price.  In practice an almost arbitrarily long operating life can be gained using normal aluminum electrolytic or polymer electrolytic capacitors with suitable derating.

(1) And niobium oxide capacitors?

Thanks. Improving the life expectancy by suitably derating the component, is a very useful tip.
(If I remember correctly) suitable derating can mean Tantulums (especially modern ones, WITHOUT the possibility of them overheating and maybe catching on fire), can last virtually forever. But they tend to be pricey.

It's a pity that unlike resistors, which can often just be specified in terms of value, tolerance, max working voltage and power rating (for the bulk of applications). Capacitors came in a large number of varieties and choosing the right one, is not always that easy.

I wonder if in 10 or 50 years time, we will see super capacitors, replace rechargeable batteries, in most applications.
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16512
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #144 on: May 27, 2017, 01:50:44 am »
Electrolytic Capacitors (i.e. low cost, relatively high capacitance value) which DON'T leak and/or significantly deteriorate, over a large number of years.

Tantalum and aluminum capacitors with solid polymer electrolyte are available. Well known types include Sanyo OS-CON and others.

They seem to be popular, on better quality motherboards.
At the very least, they get rid of the possibility of the liquid electrolyte leaking, since it would then be solid.

The only reason they use them is for their low ESR yielding a high ripple current rating at a given cost.  It became impractical to fit enough aluminum electrolytic capacitors in the area needed to get a low enough ESR and ceramic capacitors would be more expensive.

They are great capacitors but the motherboard makers use them because they are the least expensive solution.
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16512
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #145 on: May 27, 2017, 02:09:33 am »
Thanks. Improving the life expectancy by suitably derating the component, is a very useful tip.
(If I remember correctly) suitable derating can mean Tantulums (especially modern ones, WITHOUT the possibility of them overheating and maybe catching on fire), can last virtually forever. But they tend to be pricey.

Voltage derating would have made a difference with old solid tantalum capacitors but they were initially marketed as not requiring voltage derating unlike aluminum electrolytic capacitors.  In practice voltage derating them to between 1/2 and 2/3rds can reduce the failure rate to essentially zero excluding surge related failures and voltage derating helps with those also.

Quote
It's a pity that unlike resistors, which can often just be specified in terms of value, tolerance, max working voltage and power rating (for the bulk of applications). Capacitors came in a large number of varieties and choosing the right one, is not always that easy.

ESR and ripple current rating of capacitors were ignored for a long time simply because they were irrelevant in most applications.  That changed when switching power supplies became common.

In a linear or non-active power factor switching regulator, once you have enough input capacitance after the bridge rectifier, you have way more than enough ripple current rating.  The same goes for the output capacitor of a linear regulator.  But the output capacitor or coupling capacitor in a switching regulator is an entirely different matter; there, the ESR and ripple current rating is what matters and the capacitance is usually irrelevant.

Quote
I wonder if in 10 or 50 years time, we will see super capacitors, replace rechargeable batteries, in most applications.

Chemical storage simply has the advantage of much higher energy density than electrostatic storage so I doubt it.  Supercapacitors have their place but it is not in replacing batteries except where power density is more important than energy density.

Another severe disadvantage of capacitors compared to batteries in energy storage applications is that their voltage is proportional to the square root of the energy remaining so the circuits have to deal with a wildly varying voltage which in practice means that only a fraction of the capacitor's energy is available.
 

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4527
  • Country: gb
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #146 on: May 27, 2017, 02:13:49 am »

They seem to be popular, on better quality motherboards.
At the very least, they get rid of the possibility of the liquid electrolyte leaking, since it would then be solid.

The only reason they use them is for their low ESR yielding a high ripple current rating at a given cost.  It became impractical to fit enough aluminum electrolytic capacitors in the area needed to get a low enough ESR and ceramic capacitors would be more expensive.

They are great capacitors but the motherboard makers use them because they are the least expensive solution.

With the trend on motherboards, to need ever increasingly higher currents at ever lower voltages (for the cpu, especially). The low ESR makes a lot of sense.

After so many bad caps were produced, a number of years back (rumored to be caused by the Chinese stealing technical details on how to make good capacitors from the Japanese. But who mistakenly got the chemical mixture wrong, so they tended to not last long, before leaking/breaking). Motherboard manufacture's seem to commonly advertise that they have good quality (solid) capacitors, to avoid or minimize that problem.
 

Offline David Hess

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16512
  • Country: us
  • DavidH
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #147 on: May 27, 2017, 02:39:08 am »
With the trend on motherboards, to need ever increasingly higher currents at ever lower voltages (for the cpu, especially). The low ESR makes a lot of sense.

In other designs, the ratio of voltage to current (resistance) of a CPU's power pins would be considered a short circuit.

Quote
After so many bad caps were produced, a number of years back (rumored to be caused by the Chinese stealing technical details on how to make good capacitors from the Japanese. But who mistakenly got the chemical mixture wrong, so they tended to not last long, before leaking/breaking).

Even the good capacitors would fail eventually and solid polymer electrolytic will also eventually fail although not so visibly.  I replaced the capacitors on my Abit BX6 revision 2 system and it works great.  They were not bad; they just eventually wore out.

I think my Intel GX6 server motherboard uses ceramic capacitors on the CPU voltage regulators but that was a cost is no object design.  They might fail but they will not wear out.

Quote
Motherboard manufacture's seem to commonly advertise that they have good quality (solid) capacitors, to avoid or minimize that problem.

That is just good marketing.  What we produce now is new and improved (while what were were producing before is old and inferior) so upgrade now!
 

Offline ali_asadzadeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1896
  • Country: ca
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #148 on: May 27, 2017, 05:35:30 am »
A MCU with integrated true bipolar ADC inputs, say +-10V and 16Bit plus and 500KSPS+ of course single supply device say 3.3V
A MCU with integrated RS485 PHY, with integrated  CAN PHY
A MCU with integrated Audio Codec
An ARM Cortex A with integrated  DRAM (more than 1GB) and from a know good brand not bullisht parts from Allwinner with out the real good support
A real good and easy to use OS for the Cortex A, and with easy to learn and ready to go mindset, most of us hate to learn Linux or there is not at least a good,easy to use and solid linux tutorial
A FPGA with lots of resources and affordable prices-- in this world they really need to make it affordable.
A good and reliable China part distributor like Arrow or digikey with price similar to Alibaba :)
A way or a machine to be able to cheaply produce plastic injection molds (under 1500$ or 1000$ )
And finally a real good Image sensor manufacturer without the bullisht  DNA and available parts and datasheets-- everybody know those bastards





« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:37:11 am by ali_asadzadeh »
ASiDesigner, Stands for Application specific intelligent devices
I'm a Digital Expert from 8-bits to 64-bits
 

Offline technix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3507
  • Country: cn
  • From Shanghai With Love
    • My Untitled Blog
Re: Components you wish existed.
« Reply #149 on: May 27, 2017, 06:16:43 am »
A MCU with integrated true bipolar ADC inputs, say +-10V and 16Bit plus and 500KSPS+ of course single supply device say 3.3V
STM32F373? Not true bipolar though sadly.
A MCU with integrated RS485 PHY, with integrated  CAN PHY
I have never heard of this.
A MCU with integrated Audio Codec
WCH CH563should fot this bill. p.s. That chip also have built-in Ethernet PHY and comes with a pre-assigned MAC.
An ARM Cortex A with integrated  DRAM (more than 1GB) and from a know good brand not bullisht parts from Allwinner with out the real good support
Octavo have some AM335x-based SIP that fits the bill. If you have problems with BGA, you can use AT91SAM9260 which comes in QFP208 and can use SDR SDRAM, which comes in TSOP packages.
A real good and easy to use OS for the Cortex A, and with easy to learn and ready to go mindset, most of us hate to learn Linux or there is not at least a good,easy to use and solid linux tutorial
Most vendors default to one flavor of Linux or another now (especially Android) since that is where the app developers are. Maybe it is time to embrace Linux on Cortex-A. Or contribute to this and this to clone Apple iOS. Or you can cook up your own OS.
A FPGA with lots of resources and affordable prices-- in this world they really need to make it affordable.
Cyclone IV?
A good and reliable China part distributor like Arrow or digikey with price similar to Alibaba :)
There isn't. Even natives have to navigate the complexity of Alibaba.
A way or a machine to be able to cheaply produce plastic injection molds (under 1500$ or 1000$ )
3D printing.
And finally a real good Image sensor manufacturer without the bullisht  DNA and available parts and datasheets-- everybody know those bastards
Ditto for display modules.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf