Partner needed

[mrpackethead]

And on the other hand. This guy could be onto the next big thing. And you guys have just written off, and you'll never know what you might have written of, becuase his approach was a little non standard.

[miguelvp]

And on the other hand. This guy could be onto the next big thing. And you guys have just written off, and you'll never know what you might have written of, becuase his approach was a little non standard.

No chance, you'll need to know the trade to figure out new things. Just hoping you are right instead of knowing is not a good investment.
I would not subcontract Jules Verne to build a spaceship no more than Asimov to build a robot.

Imagination is one thing, you are free to run with it anywhere you want. Engineering, well, not so much. You are not only bound by the laws of physics, but by the engineering constrans that makes things work.

Engineering is applying Science in a practical way.

Case in point the UBeam thing. I'm just a thinker and innovator, throw me more money and I'll prove it, meh.

[MrSlack]

This. Shit's hard. Many many software startups I've seen total themselves because they have no idea of whether or not you can actually build what has been sold or even afford to build what you've sold.

[nctnico]

And on the other hand. This guy could be onto the next big thing. And you guys have just written off, and you'll never know what you might have written of, becuase his approach was a little non standard.

Following this reasoning you will be statistically better off by buying a lottery ticket!

[fcb]

Applebeam. Yes, people on this forum are going to be negative - mainly because we are veterans of the electronics industry and most of us have heard similar pitches (and indeed many of us have run with them in our early days).

The problem you are going have is chicken & egg:  No one is going to sign an NDA unless they understand the credibility of the concept and the people behind it, this will go for the Engineer as well as the VC/investor.  As for putting a limit on the latitude on the people you are prepared to work with - faintly ridiculous, you would be excluding some of the best product design companies in the UK, if not the world.

So how do you go forward???...
 
1. Google product designers, sub-contract electronic engineers, etc.. 
2. Make an appointment to see a couple of them.
3. Get their opinion on the feasibility of the product and a quick ball-park quote to run up a prototype.
4. Raise the money to get a prototype made (ask FFF - family, friends and fools).
5. Show your potential investors AND LISTEN TO THEM.

And BTW I run a small company that does exactly what you want - we don't do free and we are busy for the rest of 2016.

[rx8pilot]

And on the other hand. This guy could be onto the next big thing. And you guys have just written off, and you'll never know what you might have written of, becuase his approach was a little non standard.

If I followed everyone else's dreams, I would be dismissing my own. This may or may not be the next big thing, but statistically, it is a VERY long shot. Let's say it is the next big thing, how do I know that I will ever see any value? What is 10% even? Do I have access to the books and able to audit the value? Am I part of the negotiations to sell the business? At 10% ownership, I doubt it.

Now, I am left with someone that I don't know having total control over the financial outcome of this (likely) dubious effort. Like others here, I have dealt with all types of business people and the thing I learned is that you only trust those that have earned your trust. Blind trust is not how you get things done. With that said, the initial pitch is not worth any consideration since it requires trust as the first step followed by a totally unknown and proportionally small percentage.

I am not even close to being gods gift to engineering, but I can (and do) make a good living with only 10% of my ideas actually getting any business traction. This is similar to what VC's expect  - 10% of their investments make 100% of their returns. 90% fail completely as a total loss. With that as my business model, I am in a great spot. This offer is required to be 100% successful with a single idea. Just that on it's own is enough to move on. The OP may have great intentions, but I have no motivation to bother when I can do my own thing and have ZERO worry about anyone else that can sour the deal.

Now, if a savvy startup group came in and offered a roughed-in contract with a signing bonus and guaranteed R&D budget - plus 10% - I would at least listen. That would show that they have taken the time to build a plan/team/projections and have already taken real risk. Subtract all that and I want a starting offer of 50% just to get me to the table. I already know how to prosecute a variety of businesses from concept to sale - done it. I already know how to design, engineer, and manufacture a wide variety of products. I have done marketing, trade-shows, press releases, web-site,web store, etc. With all that on the table, this is still an uphill battle.

If the OP is looking for less experience, then the uphill battle starts to look like a vertical, jagged cliff, 3000ft high. For 10%, I would expect someone to step forward that has (maybe) one piece of a complex skill set needed to get from a napkin drawing to a store shelf. To get the whole project done you either need a team or you need one very widely skilled and experienced individual. Widely skilled and experienced individuals don't need this kind of offer. Their experience and skills offer much more and better opportunity.

The OP writes about how negative this bunch is......don't confuse negative people with realistic people. Take a look at your offer and your pitch technique. You are asking for high-end, offering low-end and doing it like an 8th grade science fair project. That is constructive criticism that you should at least consider. When you are asking for money, you better be a pro. Have data, details, risk assessments, payout scenarios - anything at all.

Also, keep in mind, a forum like this is like any social gathering. We are all standing around have various conversations and this random, unknown person walks in and dives right into a pitch. In a real life social situation, this would get many blank stares, followed by "Who is this guy?". Don't start with the pitch. You look, sound, and feel like a pitchman. No one likes to be ambushed by a pitchman regardless of what is being pitched.

[KJDS]

@Rx8pilot, whilst I agree with much of what you say, every VC I've known has worked on a 10, 80, 10 rule.

10% of investments are great
80% just about show a return, but hardly worth the effort, but at least the initial investment comes back with a measly rate of interest.
10% get written off, quite often rather quickly.

and if you do have a Mazda RX8, you have my sympathies.

[rx8pilot]

@Rx8pilot, whilst I agree with much of what you say, every VC I've known has worked on a 10, 80, 10 rule.

10% of investments are great
80% just about show a return, but hardly worth the effort, but at least the initial investment comes back with a measly rate of interest.
10% get written off, quite often rather quickly.

and if you do have a Mazda RX8, you have my sympathies.

I did have an RX8 along with bunch of other rotary Mazda's. They were a lot of fun. I built an RX7 into a race car too. The only real problem with the RX8 was that it was under-powered by 100hp. It needed a turbo or a wildly modified normally aspirated engine to deal with its weight. A bit of a dog, but had great driving qualities for a 4 door car. I nearly tore it apart to install a 4 rotor turbo (600hp), but spent the money on an airplane which is FAR more fun than a temperamental machine that gets you killed or your licence suspended.

You are right about the VC formula, I should not have said a 'total loss on 90%'. Emotionally I feel that a product that a break-even is a total loss from the perspective of time. In reality, a total financial loss is truly a double whammy loss of both time and money. I can usually do a pilot run of a marginal product and sell enough to cover development before abandoning the idea. I have to work hard to separate the emotional and hard business of it all. Emotions make poor business insight.

[mrpackethead]

I was trying to be kind and not completely kill the guy.

[Corporate666]

And on the other hand. This guy could be onto the next big thing. And you guys have just written off, and you'll never know what you might have written of, becuase his approach was a little non standard.

That would be true if there were equal odds that his idea may be one of the 10% that work or the 90% that fail... but it's not equal odds.  There are many ways to narrow down potential investments and increase your chances of success.  This guy's pitch is missing any of those attributes, but puts it in the lottery ticket category.  I don't generally play the lottery, but if I do it's a few bucks.  Not thousands or tens of thousands worth of my time for a potential 10% of an unknown future payoff that might happen if this guy manages to make something happen possibly in the future.

There's a word for that sort of thing... it's called a sucker bet.

[EEVblog]

And on the other hand. This guy could be onto the next big thing. And you guys have just written off, and you'll never know what you might have written of, becuase his approach was a little non standard.

That would be true if there were equal odds that his idea may be one of the 10% that work or the 90% that fail... but it's not equal odds.  There are many ways to narrow down potential investments and increase your chances of success.  This guy's pitch is missing any of those attributes, but puts it in the lottery ticket category.

Yes, and that's the problem and the reason for the generally negative commentary here.
The OP has admitted it's a simple idea that is simply a twist on existing stuff that everyone is doing.

We'll be building a simple analog switch using something like a Force-sensing resistor to enable someone to switch on/off a set of small LED lights (or similar). The device would be put in someone's trainers and the lights will be on the outside of the trainers. This has been done lots before but as I said, I have a unique twist on this idea.

I think it's understandable that people would put it in the blue sky 1% shot category.

[mrpackethead]

I think it's understandable that people would put it in the blue sky 1% shot category.

Yes, but it could be the 1% that's worth a qua-zillon...    Lucky i'm kinda busy.

[EEVblog]

I think it's understandable that people would put it in the blue sky 1% shot category.

Yes, but it could be the 1% that's worth a qua-zillon...    Lucky i'm kinda busy.

Sure, but so could any one of the 10's of thousands of other people who have similar "just a little bit different" ideas that they are just as sure will change the world. And most of them ultimately amount to nothing.
1% is very generous, it's more like 0.01% or something chance of it amounting to anything.
It's about statistics, that's what people are arguing here.

[miguelvp]

1% chance to win a jackpot that is worth more than 100 times what it takes to play? I'll be gambling like a fool

Even 0.1% if the return is worth more than 1000 times. Further than that I won't live that long

Edit: for projects that take at least a month to figure out if it works or not.  Because it will be past 80 some years.

[cobbler]

Depending on the definition of the word shoe... if the shoe contains a "battery cavity" you're gonna have to pay hella royalties to Celona, et al.    And probably Sketchers too 











 
IlluminatI shoe








 

[miguelvp]

Depending on the definition of the word shoe... if the shoe contains a "battery cavity" you're gonna have to pay hella royalties to Celona, et al.    And probably Sketchers too 

Insert shoe in helmet

Nothing to do with shoes on that patent, other than the foot in mouth

[cobbler]

Insert shoe in helmet

Nothing to do with shoes on that patent, other than the foot in mouth

lol upon further review, it appears on Dec 1, 2015 the USPTO awarded a patent to a "battery holding device", pretty sure prior art exists from the year 1800 AD.

[Fungus]

1% chance to win a jackpot that is worth more than 100 times what it takes to play? I'll be gambling like a fool

Sure, but if each play takes a couple of years off your life .... you'd be a fool to gamble.

[miguelvp]

1% chance to win a jackpot that is worth more than 100 times what it takes to play? I'll be gambling like a fool

Sure, but if each play takes a couple of years off your life .... you'd be a fool to gamble.

Yup, that's why I added:

Edit: for projects that take at least a month to figure out if it works or not.  Because it will be past 80 some years

[station240]

I agree that ideas are easy and implementation is hard. But there is something harder than both, that is putting your own money into something. 10% is the amount offered because you will probably work for a month and spend no money.

I hate your kind of people.
1 month of power, food, rent, components to built a working prototype is not nothing.!

If you believe in your idea, go visit a bank to borrow the money so you can pay someone.

[timb]

Those of us who we're alive when Vanilla Ice hit it big, Hammer Pants were in style and Saddam was getting his ass kicked (the first time) will remember this: LA Gear Sneakers

The heels *lit up* when you walked! With LED lights! It's like my 10 year old feet were powered by Cylons! At school, during recess, we used to sneak into the old gym (the school was using it for storage) and play hide and seek and tag in the pitch black darkness. Of course, if you didn't have cool light up shoes you couldn't play.

Mine lasted about 9 months before the batteries finally went, but I needed bigger shoes by then anyway. Still, 9 months is pretty good battery life. I wonder what kind of cells they used?

Holy shit, I just checked and LA Gear still exists and they still sell L.A. Lights sneakers! I... I might have to buy a pair...

[rx8pilot]

I hate your kind of people.
1 month of power, food, rent, components to built a working prototype is not nothing.!

To be fair, 10% is not nothing either. The OP is looking for someone with some entrepreneurial interest that can also design a product. I will not fault the concept, only the execution of the concept. It never hurts to ask, and as for the audience we can say 'YES' or 'NO' along with some feedback about why.

Hopefully the OP will figure out that when you say that you are looking for someone that is absolutely critical to the success of a business, you have to follow that with offering something interesting. With no cash on the table, a percentage is all that is left. 10% probably won't attract any real talent, the idea will remain on a napkin and it hurts no one. If the OP really believes in it, he must sweeten the offering substantially with either cash, percentage, or both.

As someone that has started a number of businesses, I hold the 'idea people' is high regard but only if they are good idea people. I have worked with numerous engineers that are implementors of good ideas but could never come up with their own idea that could fit in a business. They were good and talented people, but were not financially viable on their own. On the flip side, I have also worked with engineers that are very good at creating the ideas and concepts that drive a new product. Those engineers happen to be the ones that are the most sought after and paid the most. Engineering for the sake of engineering is academic and benefits no one. Engineering for a the purpose of solving a problem has real value.

I would not think for a millisecond on taking this offer, but it could be an interesting opportunity for a young player to go through a design cycle and get some experience. I would not count on any payout at all whatsoever, but the lessons learned are lesson kept forever. It can always be negotiated too. Hating 'those kind of people' seems strong. I just see the OP as naive, but not someone to hate. I doubt I could count how many times I was overly optimistic in my younger years.

To the OP:
Pull it together and and analyze why the response you got was largely negative.  Try again. Keep trying until you learn how to make an idea a reality. Persistence in the face of adversity is why I am surrounded by an infrastructure and skills to make anything I can think of. I have gone down many dead ends and just kept going - creating a new path along the way.

[mrpackethead]

To the OP:
Pull it together and and analyze why the response you got was largely negative.  Try again. Keep trying until you learn how to make an idea a reality. Persistence in the face of adversity is why I am surrounded by an infrastructure and skills to make anything I can think of. I have gone down many dead ends and just kept going - creating a new path along the way.

Yes, and never give up. Refine, review, respin and have another go. Eventually you'll make it, if you try for long enough.    None of us acehived anything valueable without makign a few clangers on the way.

[Tomorokoshi]

To put it another way, most of the people here have experienced the world of Dilbert in real life.

[John_ITIC]

To put it another way, most of the people here have experienced the world of Dilbert in real life.

Also known as the crab mentality...
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=crab+mentality

But I agree with most responses; the effort put in must be rewarded or else the effort will not be put in. The question always boils down to how do the numbers work out...