Recommended 3D printer for printing knobs & buttons etc.

[Rax]

I just had an "elephant in the room" moment, or maybe better said an epiphany, and realized I should get into the game of printing my own "missing knobs," as I'm doing quite a good amount of restorations of all kinds.

So, a huge new world for me, that I can barely begin to attempt to wrap my mind around... Have no idea what's there.
So:

• what type of 3D printer am I even looking for? Resin, etc. For instance,  my first project may be these small buttons for an HP 3582A. What's an appropriate "ink" for this?
• everything else I need to know, please, every single thing: lay it on me!

Thank you all!

[byte]

I've done a lot of 3d printing in the past couple of decades (I even ran a 3d printing firm with Stratasys FDM machines before all the hobby-grade printing took off)... so I hope I can help you with this one.

If you are new to 3d printing, I suggest starting with fused filament fabrication (reprap/makerbot & clones etc.). But beware that no 3D printing technology is simple point and click. And FFF can be very finicky especially if you get a cheapo machine (<$300 IMHO). DLP resin sounds easier, but in practice it's can be very messy and print failures still happen - and IMHO a good starting entry price for resin is much higher.

However, if you want the best surface finish, then resin may be the way to go for you. But FFF can do fairly good print surfaces depending on your needs and expectations. The nice thing about FFF is that there are way more print materials and upgrade options for the printers. For example, you can get tiny 0.1mm nozzles for finer details/smoother finish, and for another print swap it out for 1.0mm to print larger/faster parts. That's why I suggest FFF to start, because if you don't yet know what you want to do, FFF gives you the most flexibility.

If you do get a FFF machine, make sure it has a rigid frame. You don't have to have a heated enclosure, but IMHO avoid the open frame and cantilever systems (unless you need to print large parts). The reason is that the stiffness of the frame makes a big difference in part quality - ringing in the belts and sympathetic vibrations in the frame will cause the print head to print less accurately. My first "hobby grade" 3d printer was a Qidi Tech X One 2 that I bought for around $300-$400 several years ago. I was very happy with that machine for what it could do, (and this is coming from my experience with high-end Stratasys machines).

If you are unfamiliar with the type of parts that come out of these processes or the type of materials used, I suggest going to one of the online 3d print houses (there are many affordable ones out there) to get sample parts before you spend money on a printer or materials.

Last suggestion: Just keep realistic expectations with 3d printing. At least at first, you'll be spending way more time tuning any kind of setup you get, and tweaking your design in CAD, than actually printing useable parts.

Edit: Grammar

[Rax]

byte - thank you for the detailed input.

Just from a pricing standpoint, it seems the resin printers seem to be a gateway of sorts... Not sure about later - I can't yet imagine how useful this can be for all sorts of projects - but, again, in immediate term printing knobs and buttons seems to be the use for me.
For instance, I have this HP 3582A which is in excellent shape (including 2015 calibration sticker) but is missing all 5040-8832 buttons (I enclose some pics harvested online and a snip from the service manual). I have no idea which printer would do a good job at this, but from all my preliminary research.... resin?

Thanks again!

[james_s]

A couple of my friends have been playing with filament based 3D printers for several years now. So far I have not been all that impressed, they have their uses but mostly they seem to be good for printing trinkets for their kids and quick prototype stuff. I've never seen output that I would consider good enough to replace a missing knob, they're always a bit sloppy and the surface finish is not great. A resin based printer might do an acceptable job once you get it all dialed in. The guys I know spend more time tinkering and tweaking the process than producing useful parts.

[Rax]

...as I research this, may come back here with questions. For instance, some seem to use "ABS plastic," which sounds to me like a particularly good fit for what I'm looking for. But I'm not yet sure if that's even different from a "resin using printer," and what exact type the one able to plot "ABS plastic objects" would be.

[MarkF]

I bought a Creality CR-10 Mini a few years back and have no regrets.  I'm always finding similar uses for it.  Small parts and even a new bottom to replace a rusted one on my coffee maker.  I just broke the front flip feet off my Rigol scope and printed new ones.  There are always going to be small ridges between each layer.  So, having smooth buttons like you show for your scope is not possible unless you sand them smooth.

Printing in ABS is very hard.  It takes high temperature and usually an enclosure.  You will most likely start with PLA or PETG and maybe the Creality Ender 3 Pro.  PETG prints at a higher temperature for those heat sensitive applications (240^oC for PETG vs 205^oC for PLA).  There is a small learning curve but mostly it takes attention to detail when assembling and calibrating the printer.

Here's some small parts I've made (Directly from the printer.  No cleanup):

   

and a CAD image of the scope feet:

   

Edit:  Also for the flexible/soft filaments, you would probably need a direct drive instead of bodwen tube extruder.

[hagster]

You could just use shapeways/materialise or other 3d print bureau to produce the parts for you with SLA. If you are only making small numbers it will likely be much cheaper. If you design a set of buttons on a sprue so it's effectively a single part, it would be even cheaper.

Owning your own 3D printer is still cool though and great for rapid design iteration.

[Rax]

You could just use shapeways/materialise or other 3d print bureau to produce the parts for you with SLA. If you are only making small numbers it will likely be much cheaper. If you design a set of buttons on a sprue so it's effectively a single part, it would be even cheaper.

Owning your own 3D printer is still cool though and great for rapid design iteration.

I think my own printer is probably the better route right now, as I expect lots of mistakes as I'm learning this, and also the speed of return w/ no shipping costs is an important factor. I am facing a bit of free/hobby time while shipping will be relatively slow with all the days off (these two last aspects are quite antagonistic), so... I am considering an affordable printer for small plastic parts such as button, caps and knobs. I just don't know what I'm looking for.

[Le_Bassiste]

if you have the design file (either done by yourself, which i would assume here, or done by somebody else), you can throw it at whatever production house or your own slicer-printer combo to get the best possible result. then, there's the question of color matching, which isn't easy to come by by simply "glossing it over", as most paints are simply not up to the wear of daily usage. taking your printed master sample and making a cast with duplicating silicone and pigmented resin may probably get you a close to perfect match to the original item then. also, would require surface finishing just on the master, rather than on all the copies individually, giving a much more uniform appearance.

[MarkF]

You might like this:
At least pay attention to key features he describes.

[Rax]

You might like this:

I've been focusing on the LD-002R, mostly for the compact form and - pretty important - the encapsulation is has. Doing this in the house, would like to keep fumes etc. to a minimum.

But would love to hear any thoughts on the model above.

[MarkF]

I would be cautious about getting something too small.  My CR-10 Mini has a bed size of approx 8"x10" (220 x 300 mm to be exact) and there have been a couple occasions where it is a little small.  You will find all kinds of uses for it after a while.  The smallest print I've done are clips for the bowden tube fittings (appox. 3/8" diameter and 1/16" thick).

As for fumes, that depends on the filament type and not the printer size.  Printing in PLA and PETG, I have not noticed any fumes even after 10 to 15 hour prints.  I have mine in a small bedroom.  ABS and some others are a different issue.

_______________________
I just looked a little closer at the printer you mentioned.  A resin printer is a totally different animal than what I have and shown above.  You are really limited in print size and flexibility IMHO.

[Rax]

I just looked a little closer at the printer you mentioned.  A resin printer is a totally different animal than what I have and shown above.  You are really limited in print size and flexibility IMHO.

I guess my immediate use for this is very small stuff. That said, it is more critical I can produce knobs and buttons that are at least fairly good for displaying on the face of a unit. So questions I have:

• Is resin always translucid?
• Which printers can do ABS? (assuming ABS is a particularly good fit for my needs)

I am planning a trip to Microcenter tomorrow and will likely grab what y'all will advise me is best for my current purposes. To think I could hit the jackpot and figure my need for this 6-12 or 24 months out would be great, but really, very wishful I think.

[MarkF]

• Is resin always translucid?
• Which printers can do ABS? (assuming ABS is a particularly good fit for my needs)

You have a BIG BIG choice to make then.
Resin printers and PLA/PETG/ABS printers are NOT interchangeable.  Not even close.

____________________
I have not used a resin printer.  It looks like you are limited to very small parts and can possibly achieve very smooth surfaces.  It looks like the printers form the part inside a tray filled with resin???
____________________
3D filament printers will have problems with very small parts.  But with fine layer heights, the prints will have a little texture to them.  They will not be smooth as glass.  Not without sanding and polishing.  IMHO, they would be more flexible.  A printer to do ABS melts the filament an squeezes it out of a nozzle onto a flat (glass in my case) bed.  Like piping icing on top of a cake.

An example roll of filament:

[MarkF]

This is the smallest thing I've printed (about 3/8" diameter).

[xrunner]

I've done a lot of very small prints with my Ender Pro for my model railroad. It's amazing how small you can get if you set up the printer correctly. Shown are propane tanks and a ladder side-by-side with one you have to pay for.

[MarkF]

Filament comparison:
   https://stampomatica.com/pla-vs-abs-vs-petg-vs-tpu/

[rs20]

+1 that you need to clearly discern and understand the broads types of printer:

• SLA/DLP ("resin") printing -- using a projector/laser to solidify photosensitive liquid resin
• FDM printing -- (the most common cheap hobbyist one, i.e., the default if no particular technology is mentioned) - melting a reel of PLA/PETG/ABS and squirting it out onto a build plate
• (and more than aren't really suitable for home use (SLS etc))

I guess my immediate use for this is very small stuff. That said, it is more critical I can produce knobs and buttons that are at least fairly good for displaying on the face of a unit. So questions I have:

• Is resin always translucid?

Resin is not always translucent; but the marketing for such printers often showcase their translucent resins because that is, after all, one of the unique capabilities of resin printers (specifically, resin printers can print truly solid parts rather than the rough/air-pocket-filled interiors of FDM parts). If you prefer strength over translucency, there's a (generally grey) resin for that. Here's a bunch of example resins: https://formlabs.com/asia/materials/ . IMHO, you want to choose resin based on structural properties, not colour.

It's worth noting that switching between resins is a messy and wasteful process in SLA (resin) printing, and resin is expensive, so you'd be much better off choosing one resin and using paint to set colour.

• Which printers can do ABS? (assuming ABS is a particularly good fit for my needs)

Pretty much any FDM printer, right? (I'm more familiar with resin than FDM so this is just an assumption on my part.)

Basically, SLA will give you an outstanding finish in a colour that you don't have much choice in. Probably more expensive than FDM.
Whereas FDM will give you a terrible-to-maybe-passable finish in a colour that you do want.

Whether you're happy with one of those compromises, or would want to paint the SLA resin part for colour, or want to sand and/or paint the FDM part to improve its finish, depends on whether you want your restorations to be just functional or like, indistinguishable from the original.

[Mr.B]

I have both resin and FDM printers.
I use the one that best suits the application at the time.

For your HP buttons I personally would choose resin because they are so small and the desired finish and clearances will be achievable.
That said, I have an AnyCubic Photon Mono X, which has a 4K resolution. This can achieve very good detail and smooth surfaces.
Regarding resins: I only stock clear and solid white. I can colour the resins with inks and pigments that are designed for use with resin. However, as @rs20 says, changing colours is a messy and wasteful process.

I have had great success painting the parts with an airbrush and enamel paints, the type you would find at a model hobby shop.

Further to what others have said about FDM: You can get pretty good results on small items if you have your machine set up correctly.
I mainly use my FDM printers for bigger items such as electronics project enclosures.

After much research I chose the AnyCubic brand as the reviews were good and especially mentioned the structural rigidity of the frames. The FDM frames are very rigid indeed.
I typically use the FDM printers with PLA, PETG and ABS. ABS is very smelly. The picture below shows my homemade fume cupboard so that I can print with ABS. Two of the sliding front doors removed for the photo.

[Karl_S]

I've been using a RepRap printer for years.
 First thought it was more of a teenager's toy than actual tool,....but boy, was I wrong. I've been printing hundreds of items over the years and in fact had to replace the linear bearings on it due to all the use it had. Also added various parts at the beginning like a able chain, filament guide, casing for power supply,.....just to suit my needs and they way I use it.

As others have mentioned already, the initial setup, configuration and learning how to use a suitable CAD program is the most time consuming part. Once you get the hang of it you can create and print objects in a reasonable short time.
I like also the options of all type of different plastic / filament types as this allows you use appropriate material for job. I.e. PLA can be used for items getting in contact with food, whilst ABS is much more tolerant to acids and alkaline solutions. And of course if producing any items for outdoor use those should be done with a material that is UV stabilised.

From experience my recommendation would be the get a 3D printer with auto bed-levelling function as this reduces manual setup time. Other than that entirely up to you and your desired projects.

[m k]

I should get into the game of printing my own "missing knobs,"

You should add some Fluke 8500 series module guides.

[byte]

I guess my immediate use for this is very small stuff. That said, it is more critical I can produce knobs and buttons that are at least fairly good for displaying on the face of a unit. So questions I have:

• Is resin always translucid?
• Which printers can do ABS? (assuming ABS is a particularly good fit for my needs)

Resin is not always translucent, but not all resin printers can print in all types of resin. One thing about resin too, is because it's UV cured, it's not always UV stable. Meaning some resins will discolor over time or even degrade in full sunlight.

I don't recommend ABS at all. It's a pain to work with, has noxious fumes, and there are other plastics that perform just as well. For knobs on test gear, PLA will be just fine. PLA softens at low temps, so you wouldn't want to use PLA for knobs on a car stereo for example. But indoor equipment shouldn't be any issue. After PLA, I would go with PETG - it's a bit harder to print with (but still easier than ABS), and has great mechanical properties (but won't be a noticeable difference for knobs.)

It's just my 2 cents, but I've printed plenty of tiny knobs (5-10mm in diameter) with FFF containing tactile indentations and markers and unless you look at it closely you wouldn't tell much of a difference. So while yes, may people's FFF prints come out poorly, it's all about the machine, the tuning, the materials, and setup/slicing.

Someone else mentioned color matching, and that's a great point too. It's going to be near impossible to match the color, so you may want to consider 3d printing all the knobs and do a complete knob replacement if color is important to you.

[xrunner]

A couple of my friends have been playing with filament based 3D printers for several years now. So far I have not been all that impressed, they have their uses but mostly they seem to be good for printing trinkets for their kids and quick prototype stuff. I've never seen output that I would consider good enough to replace a missing knob, they're always a bit sloppy and the surface finish is not great. A resin based printer might do an acceptable job once you get it all dialed in. The guys I know spend more time tinkering and tweaking the process than producing useful parts.

Well ... I had to come back to your post james_s. I don't know the guys you know but they sure aren't using the filament 3D printers the way I and others are using them. Which is to make things I need for real projects.

As you can see in the pics, I use mine all the time to make useful parts and tools. All the tools on the desk are useful and are not "trinkets" or "prototypes". They are useful tools. Yes there really is a 3D printed torque wrench there and it's pretty damn close to what it's supposed to be (1.5 Nm).

In the garage I have many 3D printed tools for woodworking. You can see several templates I use for marking up wood for birdhouses and for assembly. I made my own design in Fusion 360 and printed a very strong miter gauge fence to make life easier on the table saw. It's extremely strong and plenty accurate.

And yet another design for the ends of dipole antennas. I printed them in PLA just to see how long they would last outside (as a test). However, they have been under stress for 3 years in the rain, sun (UV), and winds and show no signs of failing, so I just left them up!

So 3D filament printing is not just for trinkets and quick prototype stuff as you stated. 

[MarkF]

To follow xrunner's coments, I too primarily print useful parts.  Some replacements for broken items and some new items for the electronics workbench.  See CAD drawings of some which I've printed (They are shy and don't like their picture taken    ).  In addition, I've made several webcam mounts and various knobs and a printer base to reduce noise for my CR-10 Mini.

All were designed with FreeCAD.

The only toys I've actually made are the cat and dog I've shown here earlier.


Edit:  Added picture of my CR-10 Mini

[Rax]

Thank you all, great stuff in your insights.

The more I read, ponder on your thoughts and look at options, the more I lean on the filament route. Or, I should say, at this point resin/filament is about a 50/50.

I am not crazy about perfect color matching (there's a range of colors on the buttons of the HP 3582A, and as I'm missing all of those of that type, I think a color that's a bit off would only be remarked by someone very familiar with this particular unit), not for very smooth surface. I think I'd be more cranky about peeling paint than I'd be about a solid but a little "textury" surface. So that's why filament is gaining ground in my calculations.

Also, less mess and more material options, plus a wider range of applications are also other pretty big pluses.

Thanks a bunch to y'all! Please keep on posting here, I'm sure there's tons of other newbies like me reading this with huge interest.