Fume Extractor advice

[thm_w]

f thats why small ammount of activated alumina is added to high end soldering/printing fume extractors

Would the Hakko FA-430 qualify as a high end extractor?

I have been venting outside, but I get lazy in setting this up for quick soldering jobs. Ignoring the price, my concern is

1. How effective is FA-430
2. If effective, will the charcoal degrade over time without use, and to what degree.

Hobby use only so I won't use it a lot, so buying a really expensive replacement charcoal layer often is not really a great use of funds.

Its not so necessary unless you are dealing with a lot of fumes (solvents, melting plastic, etc.). The main HEPA filtration is where the value is for soldering.
That said, you can probably drop by a pet store and pick up a good amount of activated carbon for $20, worth it to me. It doesn't degrade over time, but it does get used up as chemicals/etc get trapped inside the carbon. https://smartairfilters.com/learn/smart-air-knowledge-base/how-know-change-carbon-filter/

Seems like FA-430 stock has no carbon, as they sell this special filter: https://hakkousa.com/999-245-carbon-odor-filter.html

[joeyjoejoe]

Wow, great find. In that case the Weller "Zero Smog" TL would be a much better value. Has an H13 filter and carbon filter for more or less the same price.

https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2148697.pdf

[thm_w]

I would still choose whatever you think is the better product, 10% carbon on a ~4kg filter is 400g which is less than $20 worth of material.

The weller has a remote switch which is nice, although slightly lower claimed flow rate. Noise levels hard to tell as they don't give full spec, just "<50dB". Hakko filters seem to be cheaper.

I was wrong about the Hakko as you can see a tiny bit of carbon foam on the bottom of this one: https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/A1586/Fume-Extraction/
Again, this is like $2 worth of material (breakdown), it won't be magic.

[mastershake]

i use ones that look like this unit (they sell them under a number of brand names) https://www.vevor.com/plasma-cutter-c_10061/vevor-filter-fume-extractor-pure-air-fume-extractor-150w-with-3-stage-filters-p_010418357277

[beanflying]

Still need to finally settle on a design for this but activated Carbon filtration is a bit of a must and it isn't that expensive. As to venting it to outside then that is another whole level of hassle IMO unless you are in a production or heavy use environment. This on is just a case of drop it on the bench near your work and plug it into 12V (in this case).

The Carbon filter just sits behind the front perimeter frame for easy swap out. Just checked the video and this is running around 6V on a 12V 3W fan

[Psi]

I found a second hand 2 port floor mounted air extractor system intended for a laser cutter and repurposed that. 

The advantage of having something really powerful is you can have the inlet further away from your work area and it will still pull fumes away from your face. Even when soldering close up.

I have a flexible rubber input tube zip-tied to the underside of the microscope at the back.
Works really well as I can move the microscope around as needed and the tube follows it.

The 2nd port i've not used yet and is sealed up, but i'll probably run it to the 3D printer when i can be bothered.

I also like the fact it has a filter so i'm not just pumping solder fumes around the room i'm actually removing them.

[joeyjoejoe]

i use ones that look like this unit (they sell them under a number of brand names) https://www.vevor.com/plasma-cutter-c_10061/vevor-filter-fume-extractor-pure-air-fume-extractor-150w-with-3-stage-filters-p_010418357277

Is the on/off function digital? I am wondering if I can control it remotely with a smart outlet. If it's digital, which it looks like, probably not.

My other concern with the typical import-grade units is the specifications. Is it actually HEPA, and what is the actual amount of carbon in this case. Also, are replacement filters available now, and will they be available in 5-10 years?

[knotlogic]

I'm currently looking at 2 fume extractors on Amazon and I'm torn. My basic use is soldering and desoldering. I do a lot of desoldering to salvage components, which can include vacuum gun, hot air, and hot plate. Hot plate desoldering of power boards can be especially bad, since it can produce an especially noxious acrid smoke (you probably know exactly what I mean). I live in an apartment and do not currently have a dedicated workspace, so I am looking for something desktop and portable. This also means venting to outside can be problematic. The specs on both units are similar:

BAOSHISHAN Fume Extractor Soldering 3 Stage Filters Desktop Smoke Absorber
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P1T4WV5/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1WF5PLAB10LN6&psc=1

So I recently bought a unit off AliExpress that looks like that BAOSHISHAN, and the suction is.... not great.

It works I suppose, just that I need to be careful about how I position the hose relative to the fume source.

The build quality was a little questionable, but nothing that couldn't be fixed.  It comes with a laptop brick style AC-DC power adapter which puts out 12V to a barrel jack.  On the unit itself there's a matching port for the barrel jack, and a sticker near it that says 'Input voltage: 230V'. 

Needless to say, I didn't trust the suspiciously light AC-DC brick either.  Not a problem since I have a good quality one lying around.  Only the DC socket on the unit doesn't actually seem to match any industry standard size.  Well, I wanted to open it up anyway to check what's inside...  (Which is a 12V 1A fan... good to know it's all low voltage DC in there.)

[thm_w]

Still need to finally settle on a design for this but activated Carbon filtration is a bit of a must and it isn't that expensive. As to venting it to outside then that is another whole level of hassle IMO unless you are in a production or heavy use environment. This on is just a case of drop it on the bench near your work and plug it into 12V (in this case).

The Carbon filter just sits behind the front perimeter frame for easy swap out. Just checked the video and this is running around 6V on a 12V 3W fan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSR3foSyaZg

If you just use the fan to move air away from you, thats fine. But the foam style carbon filter alone is near useless. You want HEPA, that is the priority here.

[beanflying]

Still need to finally settle on a design for this but activated Carbon filtration is a bit of a must and it isn't that expensive. As to venting it to outside then that is another whole level of hassle IMO unless you are in a production or heavy use environment. This on is just a case of drop it on the bench near your work and plug it into 12V (in this case).

The Carbon filter just sits behind the front perimeter frame for easy swap out. Just checked the video and this is running around 6V on a 12V 3W fan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSR3foSyaZg

If you just use the fan to move air away from you, thats fine. But the foam style carbon filter alone is near useless. You want HEPA, that is the priority here.

You need to understand what 'HEPA' is and is not. It is a term without specification when it comes to anything out of China for a start so because it has a badge on it like the "China Tick" doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean there isn't country specifications but apart from any major brand of filter you are guessing.

Activated Carbon on the other hand is much better at filtering out organics, solvents, gases/smoke etc than HEPA will ever be. Non woven (NOT FOAM) Carbon like I have used (5mm uncompressed) is typically down to 2-3 microns (generally they use '5' as a number but is a tortured path for the air) while proper Hepa gets you sub 1 but will load up quickly on the surface with Rosin in particular.

Best solution would be a layered approach so Carbon to take out the nasties and a Hepa sub micron layer in behind it. Easy to do and that housing has room for a second simple layer so Laser cutting it and or the Non woven is easy to play I guess.

[thm_w]

You need to understand what 'HEPA' is and is not. It is a term without specification when it comes to anything out of China for a start so because it has a badge on it like the "China Tick" doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean there isn't country specifications but apart from any major brand of filter you are guessing.

Activated Carbon on the other hand is much better at filtering out organics, solvents, gases/smoke etc than HEPA will ever be. Non woven (NOT FOAM) Carbon like I have used (5mm uncompressed) is typically down to 2-3 microns (generally they use '5' as a number but is a tortured path for the air) while proper Hepa gets you sub 1 but will load up quickly on the surface with Rosin in particular.

Best solution would be a layered approach so Carbon to take out the nasties and a Hepa sub micron layer in behind it. Easy to do and that housing has room for a second simple layer so Laser cutting it and or the Non woven is easy to play I guess.

I'm referring to certified HEPA filters (H13, H14), ones that have to pass actual standards for air filtration quality: https://www.air-quality-eng.com/air-cleaners/hepa-filters/
The 5mm woven activated carbon has no filtering performance or spec that it has to meet at all. Its not magically going to be better at filtering smoke, while still having next to no restriction to a low static pressure PC fan. The better a filter is, generally, the more restriction it creates.

Better off using granular/pelletized (as recommended above), if you want effective solvent filtration:
https://www.teqoya.com/activated-carbon-filter-a-few-basic-facts-to-sort-out-the-truth/
https://www.consumeranalysis.com/guides/air-purifiers/carbon-air-filter/

You can use a hydroponic grow filter for $40 if VOC/odor is a concern, not sure of the exact carbon weight but its probably a decent value: https://www.vivosun.com/vivosun-4-inch-air-carbon-filter-odor-control-p68320123310966090-v58820960379611906

[beanflying]

Except we are NOT trying to filter dust out here. An 'absolute' micron rating means squat to anything gaseous but it does however matter to 'dust and airborne particles'.

VOC's on the other hand like we get from Soldering or in heavier use cases like chemical production or use environments (Labs, Spray painting etc) then Activated Carbon is what is used and not any 'Hepa' anything as a stand alone solution.

Random Googling but it lays it out without a commercial bias fairly well https://molekule.com/blogs/all/best-air-purifier-for-volatile-organic-compounds-vocs#Can-HEPA-filters-remove-VOCs

Low static pressure fans are fine and even desirable here as more time for the Carbon to do the absorption thing, it only has to get the airflow thing done not suck the room into a wormhole.

[Georgy.Moshkin]

false sense of safety is what should be avoided here. I am familiar with affordable devices for measuring pm2.5, tvoc and formaldehydes, but haven't seen anything that may be useful in this case. you've probably already used some kind of ventilation, so keep it to be safe, maybe even upgrading it with powerful inline fan, and a second one for fresh air intake from outdoors. Moreover, people often forget about protecting their skin. Hands, neck and face skin should be protected from all those microsprayed splashes and droplets of solder and flux. I use an old long sleeve shirt, thin gloves, full face transparent cover (you can find it as face protection used for cooking/frying), 3m carbon face mask under this cover for anything escaped exhaust fan and sneaked under face cover

[tinfever]

When soldering, I absolutely see my PM2.5 measurement go up so I definitely think you'd want to filter the particulate matter from the smoke somehow. I'd guess the particulate matter is probably a higher priority than VOCs, since the particles are getting inhaled and presumably getting stuck in your lungs (I'm not a doctor though so what do I know) and the VOCs are just going to cause issues with exposure over a longer period of time? Like I think formaldehyde long term exposure increases cancer risk or something?

I'm sure somewhere there is research on the actual contents of soldering smoke and fumes. That would probably be helpful to know if debating about filtering methods.

It's true that trying to filter everything perfectly is probably a fool's errand, because you really do need to have outside air exchange somehow, if only to keep the room CO2 levels from breathing down.

[thm_w]

Except we are NOT trying to filter dust out here. An 'absolute' micron rating means squat to anything gaseous but it does however matter to 'dust and airborne particles'.

VOC's on the other hand like we get from Soldering or in heavier use cases like chemical production or use environments (Labs, Spray painting etc) then Activated Carbon is what is used and not any 'Hepa' anything as a stand alone solution.

Random Googling but it lays it out without a commercial bias fairly well https://molekule.com/blogs/all/best-air-purifier-for-volatile-organic-compounds-vocs#Can-HEPA-filters-remove-VOCs

Low static pressure fans are fine and even desirable here as more time for the Carbon to do the absorption thing, it only has to get the airflow thing done not suck the room into a wormhole.

This thread is about soldering and de-soldering, where the prime concern is smoke particles, not "heavier chemical production use environments".
Low static pressure fans are not desirable under any circumstance. You want high static pressure, to be able to use as fine a filter as possible, while maintaining high flow rates.
Or in the case of VOCs, pass through more total weight of carbon granules (so you don't need to constantly change the filter and circulate the air multiple times).

I bought into this carbon filter for soldering bullshit too originally. But its not science backed at all. Its deceptive and harmful to peoples health that think that all they need is a 5mm sheet of carbon and she'll be good (Hakko, Metcal, and others are still marketing this, call them out if you see it).


"Activated carbon filters in the form of foams, used with the simpler type of cleaner, had negligible filtration efficiency against either particulates or vapours and would, therefore, offer no protection against any hazardous component of the fume. The granular carbon filter in the tip-extraction system was an effective vapour filter."

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/42/8/511/148079
https://www.isiaq.org/docs/papers/940.pdf

[james_s]

false sense of safety is what should be avoided here. I am familiar with affordable devices for measuring pm2.5, tvoc and formaldehydes, but haven't seen anything that may be useful in this case. you've probably already used some kind of ventilation, so keep it to be safe, maybe even upgrading it with powerful inline fan, and a second one for fresh air intake from outdoors. Moreover, people often forget about protecting their skin. Hands, neck and face skin should be protected from all those microsprayed splashes and droplets of solder and flux. I use an old long sleeve shirt, thin gloves, full face transparent cover (you can find it as face protection used for cooking/frying), 3m carbon face mask under this cover for anything escaped exhaust fan and sneaked under face cover

I don't think safety is a major concern for typical hobbyist soldering. We're not talking production work with a room full of wave soldering machines or rows of people soldering, it's not painting with nasty organic solvent vapors. All you really need is something to keep the smoke out of your face, people soldered for decades with no protection at all, which does not prove that it's safe, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that it is particularly bad for you either.

[Georgy.Moshkin]

agree on hobby. With many desoldering I'd be more cautious. Smells can become really bad during heatup, especially when extracting components from burnt PCBs

[OriginalDan]

gonna throw my 2cents in here since i went down this road recently, i found it was best to exhaust out a window and it can be done fairly cheaply
your local home improvement store may sell inline fan kits in various sizes from 100mm or 4" and larger in the kitchen/shower diy sections should have various parts to customize this to your setup
the kits don't usually have an 'Inline Backdraft Damper' so id get one and have it at the window mount to stop backdrafts so you can still solder during the winter,
how you mount it to the window will be dependant on your window type, my house is from the 1950s and has those old school spring pull up windows so i got some wood, drilled a hole for the fan and the force from the window holds it firmly in place.

with hindsight i would've changed a few things with my setup as originally i bought a "Micron FUME Extractor Desk Swing Arm T1297" and thought running a tube from that to the window would be enough, in reality the fan was aweful and pushed bugger all air and i got a lot of backdraft so i had to rethink and ended up modding my setup with the inline fan which works way better and i wouldn't even need the micron fan except it already came with a 100mm duct mount on the back and the spring arm helps push/pull it toward or away from your workspace as needed

if i was to redo that part id used loc-line tubing or something like the exhuast with a hood on the aliexpress image9 below instead of the micron fan, the only issue being the largest size is 75mm so either you could get a 75mm inline fan and tubing for a more compact setup, or adapt 100mm to 75mm as 100mm inline fans are more common.

try to go with a mixflow inline fan as they should push more airflow than some cheaper ones, locally the cheapest inline fan was an axial type at 119 m3/hr noise of 40dB another i found on ebay was a mixflow and had two speed modes of 145m3/hr or 187m3/hr at 34dbA or quieter at lower speed and was only $20aud more than the cheaper axial type

Edit: another option for those not wanting to exhaust out a window and want a simpler setup, get a decent quality true HEPA air purifier and plonk it close to your soldering, personally i got an Arovec AV-P152PRO which has 250m3/hr on max, and was under $200aud on sale. at max fan speed it soaks up the fumes easily, the only downside of this method aside from being a bit bulky on the desk depending on the model you get, is you'll need to replace the air filters overtime which costs whereas a nice exhaust setup you don't need to worry about replacing filters

[Psi]

I recommend taking action to eliminate or mitigate the issue of fumes in the hobby soldering world as soon as you are doing any sort of mass production.  eg Where you will be sitting at a desk for an hour or so making 10,50,200 of something.

[lfldp]

f thats why small ammount of activated alumina is added to high end soldering/printing fume extractors

Would the Hakko FA-430 qualify as a high end extractor?

I have been venting outside, but I get lazy in setting this up for quick soldering jobs. Ignoring the price, my concern is

1. How effective is FA-430
2. If effective, will the charcoal degrade over time without use, and to what degree.

Hobby use only so I won't use it a lot, so buying a really expensive replacement charcoal layer often is not really a great use of funds.

i heard about this fume extractor use just crap activated carbon and dont remove formaldehyde fumes like others such as weller/bofa and chinese soldering fume extractors

[lfldp]

hi
everything is ok with this filter except gas stage filter you will never adsorb most harmfull soldering flux fumes by standalone activated carbon filter for this need to mix activated alumina impregnated by kmn04 with activated carbon then you get reall chemicall filter comparable to high-end soldering fume extractors , it is enough to mix 5kg of activated alumina with 1,2kg can filters activated carbon (lite version) to get excellent result for small air-flow 200m3/h - 300m3/h , activated alumina with kmn04 isnt cheap but at last whole cost for 5kg activated alumina + 1,2kg can-lite carbon + M5 prefilter + F8 prefilter + hepa h13 filter will cost you just half price of bofa or weller replacement filters and you propably get more better result with it , ive designed many soldering fume extractors in past and i getting stucked with gas stage filters still having a hope i create very big carbon filter (over 15kg of coconut activated carbon loadded to 4 cartridges and... ive never gets even 1/2 of gas adsorbtion result of formaldehyde and rest of flux stuff , activated carbon filter alone is complete waiste of money , activated alumina with kmn04 is also used in 3d printer fume extractors

That's very interesting. You mention never reaching 1/2 gas adsorption using activated carbon. Is that assuming a single pass through the filter? With enough passes, such as for a whole room air filter where the air would recirculate through the filter, would the adsorption increase significantly enough?

I'd also be interested to know more about the makeup of soldering smoke. I assume we have the particulate matter and various gasses. The particulate matter I think would be taken care of by a HEPA filter, leaving just the gasses like formaldehyde it sounds like?

today is very bad day i did some experiments again with gas filtering by using camfil activated alumina 8% and even if i loadded around of 10kg of activated alumina i never reaching same filtration result by comparing to 1,5kg activated carbon (whatever is this) cartridge - where is the pit-hole ?! this must be very effective and specialised activated carbon or chemical media and i am sure now similiar or even more effective media is used in bofa/weller gas cartridges the one in bofa/weller is for sure impregnated with kmn04 but its efficiency must be even 50 times higher than activated alumina 8% from camfil i think this camfil campure8 can be effective to use only in 3d printer fume extractors DIY i waiste alot of money for these experiments in last years and yes - with activated carbon you will never reach even 10% of formaldehyde gas removal even with alumina 8% you will need it alot much more than 10kg loaded to the filter   - with enough passes before it will pass few times over the filter you will inhale yourself 90% of this gas

[lfldp]

I would still choose whatever you think is the better product, 10% carbon on a ~4kg filter is 400g which is less than $20 worth of material.

The weller has a remote switch which is nice, although slightly lower claimed flow rate. Noise levels hard to tell as they don't give full spec, just "<50dB". Hakko filters seem to be cheaper.

I was wrong about the Hakko as you can see a tiny bit of carbon foam on the bottom of this one: https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/A1586/Fume-Extraction/
Again, this is like $2 worth of material (breakdown), it won't be magic.

the kg no really matter the matter is media filtration material it can have just 1,5kg of this media and can be 100 times more effective than 50kg of activated carbon against most irritant fumes generated while soldering - read my other posts

[lfldp]

You need to understand what 'HEPA' is and is not. It is a term without specification when it comes to anything out of China for a start so because it has a badge on it like the "China Tick" doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean there isn't country specifications but apart from any major brand of filter you are guessing.

Activated Carbon on the other hand is much better at filtering out organics, solvents, gases/smoke etc than HEPA will ever be. Non woven (NOT FOAM) Carbon like I have used (5mm uncompressed) is typically down to 2-3 microns (generally they use '5' as a number but is a tortured path for the air) while proper Hepa gets you sub 1 but will load up quickly on the surface with Rosin in particular.

Best solution would be a layered approach so Carbon to take out the nasties and a Hepa sub micron layer in behind it. Easy to do and that housing has room for a second simple layer so Laser cutting it and or the Non woven is easy to play I guess.

I'm referring to certified HEPA filters (H13, H14), ones that have to pass actual standards for air filtration quality: https://www.air-quality-eng.com/air-cleaners/hepa-filters/
The 5mm woven activated carbon has no filtering performance or spec that it has to meet at all. Its not magically going to be better at filtering smoke, while still having next to no restriction to a low static pressure PC fan. The better a filter is, generally, the more restriction it creates.

Better off using granular/pelletized (as recommended above), if you want effective solvent filtration:
https://www.teqoya.com/activated-carbon-filter-a-few-basic-facts-to-sort-out-the-truth/
https://www.consumeranalysis.com/guides/air-purifiers/carbon-air-filter/

You can use a hydroponic grow filter for $40 if VOC/odor is a concern, not sure of the exact carbon weight but its probably a decent value: https://www.vivosun.com/vivosun-4-inch-air-carbon-filter-odor-control-p68320123310966090-v58820960379611906

you will never achieve same gas filtration results on carbons like that - the commerciall competitors uses speciallised impregnated carbons or activated alumina for chemisorbtion - the chemiosrbent you need to filter and remove whorst harmfull and smallest gas particles generated trought soldering and via 3d printing - any of these carbons from yours link would never adsorb all of this particles even if you load 50kg tape with this carbon for small gas particles (whorst one) you need chemical media filter not standard carbon filter instead - even if you load 200kg of carbon maybe it will works but you will contaminate it more faster than 1,5kg weller/bofa chemical media filter and you pay 30 - 50 times higher price for this carbon which you loaded to the filters than paying for 1,5kg bofa/weller media instead - now you understand where is main problem ?

[lfldp]

Except we are NOT trying to filter dust out here. An 'absolute' micron rating means squat to anything gaseous but it does however matter to 'dust and airborne particles'.

VOC's on the other hand like we get from Soldering or in heavier use cases like chemical production or use environments (Labs, Spray painting etc) then Activated Carbon is what is used and not any 'Hepa' anything as a stand alone solution.

Random Googling but it lays it out without a commercial bias fairly well https://molekule.com/blogs/all/best-air-purifier-for-volatile-organic-compounds-vocs#Can-HEPA-filters-remove-VOCs

Low static pressure fans are fine and even desirable here as more time for the Carbon to do the absorption thing, it only has to get the airflow thing done not suck the room into a wormhole.

you will never ever clean air from soldering fumes by using activated carbon even coconut activated carbon unless you load 200kg of this carbon to yours filter 200kg of carbon vs 1,5kg chemical media maybe will works same - chemical media specialised impregnated activated carbon or mixed with activated alumina impregnated with kmn04 chemical agent this is what you need to clean air from 3d printer gas fumes or soldering fumes because they generate alot of smalles gas particles the activated carbon can catch just few % of these fumes it can be used for filtering air but not if you wanna filter formaldehydes and similiar particles man

[lfldp]

Except we are NOT trying to filter dust out here. An 'absolute' micron rating means squat to anything gaseous but it does however matter to 'dust and airborne particles'.

VOC's on the other hand like we get from Soldering or in heavier use cases like chemical production or use environments (Labs, Spray painting etc) then Activated Carbon is what is used and not any 'Hepa' anything as a stand alone solution.

Random Googling but it lays it out without a commercial bias fairly well https://molekule.com/blogs/all/best-air-purifier-for-volatile-organic-compounds-vocs#Can-HEPA-filters-remove-VOCs

Low static pressure fans are fine and even desirable here as more time for the Carbon to do the absorption thing, it only has to get the airflow thing done not suck the room into a wormhole.

read my other posts from this forum and you should understand all ill repeat there something in short - activated carbon cant catch smalles gas particles itself because its pores not match to angstrom diametres so if you wanna catch gas from soldering fumes small workplace you will need maybe 200kg ammount of activated carbon to catch all these fumes , now what is implemented in high end fume extractors is called the chemicall media they use activated alumina balls impregnated with kmn04 chemicall agent mixed with usuall activated carbon or they use speciallised activated carbon impregnated with kmn04 now about how it works - the smallest gas particles from soldering fumes or 3d printering hitting kmn04 oxidizer and this kmn04 potassium-permagnate by its chemicall properties convert all small particles to largest one after they going larger they sit on activated carbon and being easily absorbed ! thats why this commerciall filters are very small and can absorb all of chemicall fumes without loading 200kg of activated carbon this technique is used in high-end commerciall soldering and house fume extractors also 3d printer filters and what is more whorse they are more effective than 10kg of activated alumina mixed with activated carbon for example campure 8% from camfil because i tryin this i buyed camfil media and i never getting better result than even chinese fume extractors does -  in china soldering fume extractors they dont use kmn04 they use some kind of industrial coconut activated carbon instead with very high activity