Fume Extractor advice

[furnacemike]

I'm currently looking at 2 fume extractors on Amazon and I'm torn. My basic use is soldering and desoldering. I do a lot of desoldering to salvage components, which can include vacuum gun, hot air, and hot plate. Hot plate desoldering of power boards can be especially bad, since it can produce an especially noxious acrid smoke (you probably know exactly what I mean). I live in an apartment and do not currently have a dedicated workspace, so I am looking for something desktop and portable. This also means venting to outside can be problematic. The specs on both units are similar:

BAOSHISHAN Fume Extractor Soldering 3 Stage Filters Desktop Smoke Absorber
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P1T4WV5/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1WF5PLAB10LN6&psc=1

KOTTO Strong Suction Hose Fume Smoke Absorber for Soldering, Electric Iron Welding, 3d Printing Extractor Absorber Remover DIY Extractor Carbon or HEPA Filter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZHH5H7N/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

Both feature a combination HEPA/Carbon filter (though the KOTTO it is optional), and both use 40W fans. I've read the reviews and watched YouTube reviews on the KOTTO (non are to be found on the BAOSHISHAN), and the seem pretty favorable. The BAOSHISAN also features a "pre-filter". The BAOSHISAN is quite a bit more money than the KOTTO, though I am not deterred by that outright. Both feature flexible hoses with a snorkel head.

Overall, the BAOSHISAN seems to be a better quality build. The only hang up I have is the price of the filters. The filters for the BAOSHISAN are very expensive.

So my questions are:
Anyone have any experience with these units? Any thoughts?
Is the pre-filter really worth it?
Is it worth the extra expense in filters to go with the BAOSHISAN?

Thanks!

Mike, New Jersey, USA.

[--Oz--]

IMO neither are worth it.

I use a 12v brushless fan (120mm or 5") scavenged from a dead pc power supply, then run it at 6 to 10v (from a $2 dcdc buck converter). Here is the kicker, the fume extractors that have a funnel feeding the tube (shroud that feeds the fan) is killing the sucking (working area) distance, its like they have no clue what they are doing, then charge $80 or more. With my simple and free fan I can easily get 8~12" distance of fume extraction and the fan is on low, this also is low noise. Need more distance, just turn it up a little. If you want you can add the charcoal filters to the front for a couple bucks. Also, after some hot air rework I set my board behind the fan to cool down quicker if I am in a hurry.

[thm_w]

IMO neither are worth it.

I use a 12v brushless fan (120mm or 5") scavenged from a dead pc power supply, then run it at 6 to 10v (from a $2 dcdc buck converter). Here is the kicker, the fume extractors that have a funnel feeding the tube (shroud that feeds the fan) is killing the sucking (working area) distance, its like they have no clue what they are doing, then charge $80 or more. With my simple and free fan I can easily get 8~12" distance of fume extraction and the fan is on low, this also is low noise. Need more distance, just turn it up a little. If you want you can add the charcoal filters to the front for a couple bucks. Also, after some hot air rework I set my board behind the fan to cool down quicker if I am in a hurry.

"Charcoal filters" for a couple of dollars are going to be worse than the ones the OP linked, and close to useless.
Get proper branded HEPA filters (Levoit, Honeywell, etc.), which will be <$30 if you keep an eye out on amazon.

[jpanhalt]

Let me check what I have.  I am a retired chemist and over the years saved a lot lot of stuff from the dumpster.  Since you are in the USA, I may have something of interest, but it is 42 miles away at my second home.  Nothing has any ducting.  They are just fans in boxes.  If interested, let me know.  Cost is actual shipping cost.

[Keri Szafir]

I just use a centrifugal fan, no filters whatsoever. It's there for drawing fumes away from my face and mixing them with the surrounding air, reducing the concentration to safe levels.

[Gyro]

I just use a centrifugal fan, no filters whatsoever. It's there for drawing fumes away from my face and mixing them with the surrounding air, reducing the concentration to safe levels.

If you're simply looking to disperse the fumes away from your face, a small quiet axial fan blowing sideways across your work area is very effective. You can get away with a lot less fan noise.

[NiHaoMike]

I live in an apartment and do not currently have a dedicated workspace, so I am looking for something desktop and portable. This also means venting to outside can be problematic.

Have you considered venting out the window or into the bathroom with the exhaust fan running?

[tinfever]

Clearly you need a three stage overhead air filtration system.
MERV 11 prefilter > 12" Activated Carbon Filter > 24" x 24" 12" HEPA filter

Don't ask how long it took me to build or how much it cost. I don't want to think about it.

[thm_w]

lol

overkill taken to a new level.
Next project for you is to convert the whole room into a laminar flow hood.

[tinfever]

There ain't no kill like overkill! 

Next project might actually be to add an ERV (energy recovery ventilator) to get some outside air circulation without too much energy loss. No amount of air filtration will take care of high CO2 levels and I've decided to draw the line at an algae CO2 scrubber system.

[lfldp]

hi
everything is ok with this filter except gas stage filter you will never adsorb most harmfull soldering flux fumes by standalone activated carbon filter for this need to mix activated alumina impregnated by kmn04 with activated carbon then you get reall chemicall filter comparable to high-end soldering fume extractors , it is enough to mix 5kg of activated alumina with 1,2kg can filters activated carbon (lite version) to get excellent result for small air-flow 200m3/h - 300m3/h , activated alumina with kmn04 isnt cheap but at last whole cost for 5kg activated alumina + 1,2kg can-lite carbon + M5 prefilter + F8 prefilter + hepa h13 filter will cost you just half price of bofa or weller replacement filters and you propably get more better result with it , ive designed many soldering fume extractors in past and i getting stucked with gas stage filters still having a hope i create very big carbon filter (over 15kg of coconut activated carbon loadded to 4 cartridges and... ive never gets even 1/2 of gas adsorbtion result of formaldehyde and rest of flux stuff , activated carbon filter alone is complete waiste of money , activated alumina with kmn04 is also used in 3d printer fume extractors

[tatel]

Could you give any links to purchase that activated alumina with kmn04 thing?

I could use it while printing ABS

[JDubU]

I've been using the KOTTO one for several years and, for soldering, it actually works surprisingly well.

[james_s]

I have the Kotto, I bought it a few years ago. It's a bit noisy on the higher speeds but aside from that it works very well. You do have to screw the hose in pretty hard to get it all to stay together though. Keeps the smoke out of your face and really makes a big difference in the smell, it has an activated charcoal filter in it. I'd buy it again.

[lfldp]

Could you give any links to purchase that activated alumina with kmn04 thing?

I could use it while printing ABS

well you have few options there , can buy directly from camfil activated alumina with kmn04 - 8% 20kg bag (this is best and cheaper option by buying directly from manufacture company) , other option you may try activated alumina made from china but it usually have less effectivity than camfil or purafil just 4 - 6% of kmn04 but from my experiments 5kg load of 6% is enough for small ariflow another thing you may to consider - when alumina is mixed with pelletised carbon you would propably inhale chemicall smell outgoing from filter itself (this is usually happend in air cleaners like IQAIR HEALTHPRO) - some people notice dirty chemicall odour outgoing from filters itself , solution for this is to mix activated alumina with high quality granulated carbon (not pelletised) like for example can-lite activated carbon 50% to 50% of alumina will give you result 5kg of alumina with 1,2kg of can carbon

[lfldp]

Could you give any links to purchase that activated alumina with kmn04 thing?

I could use it while printing ABS

ABS and soldering flux fumes - have very small gas size counted in molecular weight while odours have large , activated carbon is mainly effective against large gas particles thats why for smallest you need activated alumina + kmn04 impregnation which doubling its efficiency , for example you will maybe achieve same filtering result 5kg of activated alumina kmn04 8% < > over 50kg of activated carbon itself thats why small ammount of activated alumina is added to high end soldering/printing fume extractors

[tatel]

That would be the link?

https://www.camfil.com/pl-pl/produkty/filtracja-molekularna/media-adsorpcyjne/activated-alumina

It doesn't seem like they are selling bags of raw material

Probably I'll be getting filters for respiratory equipement...

[lfldp]

That would be the link?

https://www.camfil.com/pl-pl/produkty/filtracja-molekularna/media-adsorpcyjne/activated-alumina

It doesn't seem like they are selling bags of raw material

Probably I'll be getting filters for respiratory equipement...

they selling can sell 20kg bag of activated alumina kmn04 8% it called campure 8 ill include part of my invoice there

[lfldp]

That would be the link?

https://www.camfil.com/pl-pl/produkty/filtracja-molekularna/media-adsorpcyjne/activated-alumina

It doesn't seem like they are selling bags of raw material

Probably I'll be getting filters for respiratory equipement...

campure 8 will cost you around of 10 euro per 1kg so is cheaper than chinese alumina available in small quantities and more effective becoz it has 8% of kmn04 impregnation but however you must pay at last for 20kg bag

[lfldp]

That would be the link?

https://www.camfil.com/pl-pl/produkty/filtracja-molekularna/media-adsorpcyjne/activated-alumina

It doesn't seem like they are selling bags of raw material

Probably I'll be getting filters for respiratory equipement...

also depending all for your needs , for 3d printer fumes is enough to mix alumina 4% with activated carbon , but for soldering fumes better is to use 8% there is also 12% alumina but it is very expensiff and used only in this shit commerciall soldering fume extractors (12% is used there where you want to have very small filter and achieve similiar efficiency to larger filter) so for example you will need 2,5kg of activated alumina 12% to get similiar result to 5kg of 8% alumina

[tatel]

Thank you very much for this information

[joeyjoejoe]

f thats why small ammount of activated alumina is added to high end soldering/printing fume extractors

Would the Hakko FA-430 qualify as a high end extractor?

I have been venting outside, but I get lazy in setting this up for quick soldering jobs. Ignoring the price, my concern is

1. How effective is FA-430
2. If effective, will the charcoal degrade over time without use, and to what degree.

Hobby use only so I won't use it a lot, so buying a really expensive replacement charcoal layer often is not really a great use of funds.

[EE4all]

I made a setup using a "Tjernlund M-6 Inline Duct Booster Fan," along with appropriate hoses, splitter, reducers, and open cone ends. The exhaust goes through a wall bulkhead I installed out the attic to a soffit vent. It's a bit wasteful of inside HVAC air sure, but it's nice for any accidental magic smoke releases, that I can turn it up to high and clear it out quickly.

[joeyjoejoe]

That's my current setup, but via a window, so open/close and put the panel in as needed. I have found myself not doing that, notably when it is colder then -20 outside.

[tinfever]

hi
everything is ok with this filter except gas stage filter you will never adsorb most harmfull soldering flux fumes by standalone activated carbon filter for this need to mix activated alumina impregnated by kmn04 with activated carbon then you get reall chemicall filter comparable to high-end soldering fume extractors , it is enough to mix 5kg of activated alumina with 1,2kg can filters activated carbon (lite version) to get excellent result for small air-flow 200m3/h - 300m3/h , activated alumina with kmn04 isnt cheap but at last whole cost for 5kg activated alumina + 1,2kg can-lite carbon + M5 prefilter + F8 prefilter + hepa h13 filter will cost you just half price of bofa or weller replacement filters and you propably get more better result with it , ive designed many soldering fume extractors in past and i getting stucked with gas stage filters still having a hope i create very big carbon filter (over 15kg of coconut activated carbon loadded to 4 cartridges and... ive never gets even 1/2 of gas adsorbtion result of formaldehyde and rest of flux stuff , activated carbon filter alone is complete waiste of money , activated alumina with kmn04 is also used in 3d printer fume extractors

That's very interesting. You mention never reaching 1/2 gas adsorption using activated carbon. Is that assuming a single pass through the filter? With enough passes, such as for a whole room air filter where the air would recirculate through the filter, would the adsorption increase significantly enough?

I'd also be interested to know more about the makeup of soldering smoke. I assume we have the particulate matter and various gasses. The particulate matter I think would be taken care of by a HEPA filter, leaving just the gasses like formaldehyde it sounds like?