At last, Siglent's SDS5054X touchscreen DSO...

[Mr Nutts]

Yep, wavesurfer are always the "light version" of the waverunners, in every case.

That's true but not what I meant. What I was saying is that to my knowledge the WS400 is different from any other Lecroy X-Stream scope including later Wavesurfers. The WS400 was particularly simple unlike any other X-Stream scope, so it's not surprising it lacks most of the functionality in the LT. But a lot of that functionality is found in the successor model which I believe is Wavesurfer Xs

[Martin72]

Ah ok, nevertheless, the tracking gate function was gone with the elder Waverunner models and wasn´t implemented anymore.
Every brand does have it today, only lecroy not.
So I´ll suggest the siglent to buy for our testfield.

[Performa01]

Siglent scopes have always supported gated measurements and there is a mode to position the measurement gate without altering the gate width (Gate A-B):


SDS5104X_Gate_Ampl

It should be noted that Siglent offers dedicated gate cursors, whereas the regular cursors are still available for manual measurements:


SDS5104X_V_Cursor_XY_Track_M1

The screenshot above shows the M1 display mode with a compact box showing all the measurement results from the (tracking in this example) cursor pair, like we’re used to it from other Siglent scopes. On the SDS5000X, this box is movable though, hence can be positioned freely.

Alternatively, we also get the M2 display mode, where the measurement results are displayed next to the cursors:


SDS5104X_V_Cursor_XY_Track_M2

[jemangedeslolos]

Hello everyone,

Im looking to move on a more advanced scope ( I have a SDS2204x ).
There is some competitor at this price range and it seems that R&S will introduce promotion for their RTB and RTM series....
The price difference will be not that high between a full loaded SDS5000x and a R&S scope so it will be difficult to choose even if there are high end feature on the Siglent.
Do you know if the analog frontend is different between the 350Mhz and the 1Ghz model ?
It seems that yan can only upgrade to 500Mhz from the 350Mhz version  ?

Thank you

[0xdeadbeef]

At least you can only update the 500MHz model to 1GHz. So this could mean that the 350MHz version has a different frontend than the 500MHz and 1Ghz models.

[tv84]

Anyone has a 350MHz version?

[Performa01]

Do you know if the analog frontend is different between the 350Mhz and the 1Ghz model ?
It seems that yan can only upgrade to 500Mhz from the 350Mhz version  ?

The 350MHz model has a different (500MHz) frontend. It can be upgraded to 500MHz by software, but such an upgraded scope is still not identical to the genuine 500MHz model.

The 500MHz model has the higher end (1GHz) frontend and if upgraded to 1GHz there will be no difference to the genuine 1GHz model.

Anyone has a 350MHz version?

I think member JPortici has got one.

[jemangedeslolos]

Hello Performa01,

Thank you for the info. There is a huge gap between the 350Mhz price and the 500 Mhz 

Around 5000€, there will be some competitor like R&S promo....It will be difficult to choose 

[0xdeadbeef]

Not really. Letting aside that the 500MHz version is around 6k€ with VAT, there is not much in this price range from competitors. The 4ch RTM3000 with 500MHz is around 12k€ (with VAT, 10k€ without). Also the promotion will be only for all options (1GHz MSO with all decoders and AWG). My guess is that it will will reduced from 20k€ to 12k€-14k€ [Edit: actually 10.2k€ with VAT, 8.6k€ without]. So not really the 5k€ range.

[2N3055]

Hello Performa01,

Thank you for the info. There is a huge gap between the 350Mhz price and the 500 Mhz 

Around 5000€, there will be some competitor like R&S promo....It will be difficult to choose 

No it won't. Promo is nice for fully loaded 350 MHz RTB2000 at 3200 € that is a nice scope but has many limitations compared to SDS50000X.

One that SDS50000X should be compared to is RTM3000K, but on that one promo is only for a fully loaded 1GHz one for 8600€.
Which is a good deal actually if you need 1GHz. Despite fact that on RTM3000K they don't even have search on basic protocols and segments so large memory they are promoting so much is pretty much useless...

RTM3000 with basic protocols (optional) and 500 MHz  bandwidth will set you back 8100€ +2500 € for app bundle (+VAT).
Which is also part of the good news from R&S. Namely, while you can get 1GHz for what is not a bad price in their new promotion, in the same new promotion app bundle for RTM3000 is back to full price of 2500€ + VAT.
So their new promotion makes all of the scopes with lower bandwidth more expensive if you want options. Which you do, because NOTHING worth having is built in. NO segmented memory (which you really want and is standard with every single manufacturer except them), NO very nice spectrum display mode (which would be nice advantage to other scopes), no basic protocols (SPI, I2C and UART trigger and decoding is as common as edge trigger and rise time measurement nowadays). etc etc..

So if you want pretty advanced 500MHz scope, that will get even better in coming months with all the upgrades Siglent is planning, than SDS5000X has no competition whatsoever in current R&S product line. And with Rigol upcoming 1GHz scope, and necessary price adjustments because Siglent is getting ahead, it is going to get pretty interesting pretty soon.
That is exact reason why R&S is doing promotions so they can attract customers in that segment so they don't get any ideas with Siglent and Rigol.

[nctnico]

On the R&S RTM3000 the 'protocol' item in the search menu is greyed out (with version 1.4) so that is probably something R&S is still working on.

[2N3055]

On the R&S RTM3000 the 'protocol' item in the search menu is greyed out (with version 1.4) so that is probably something R&S is still working on.

And I asked and they said that officially that's not something they gonna promise.
It's been more than a year since introduction.
That is basic functionality. Sorry.

But hey it's so cool it has kindergarten crayon style finger painting... That is more important than search 

So I gave up and bought Keysight 3000T.

If SDS5000X was available then I would have taken it into consideration, over RTM3000.

it is simple. 350MHz scope is pretty much enough for 99% of time. For the price of 100 MHz RTM3004 with no options whatsoever, you can get 350MHz MSO with segments, huge memory, basic protocols, histograms, basically low cost LeCroy..
To me, for a general purpose mainstream scope, choice is obvious.

If you need more than that you need to go up the food chain anyway..

[nctnico]

Either way it would be nice to put the Siglent SDS5000 and the R&S RTM3000 head to head once the  firmware for the SDS5000 reaches version 1.x .

[Martin72]

it is simple. 350MHz scope is pretty much enough for 99% of time. For the price of 100 MHz RTM3004 with no options whatsoever, you can get 350MHz MSO with segments, huge memory, basic protocols, histograms, basically low cost LeCroy..
To me, for a general purpose mainstream scope, choice is obvious.

For me too, for our departement spoken.
It seems that the siglent 350Mhz model is more than enough to fullfil our daily needs, they also offers pretty good current-clamps which are, surprise surprise, equal to the ones Lecroy offers ( and Rigol by the way).
I would also recommend a Rigol MSO5000 when it would be clear, that all Bugs would be fixed in the near future - But this is not clear and additional to this, a big point was open:
What about the support.....
Not only Rigol concerning, also Siglent.
From Lecroy I am used to become a quick help what problems concerning.
I´ve told my departement manager about the siglent SDS5000 series and he replied, well let us invite a representative to show the benefits of an SDS 5000 - And me : ehhhh…...
This seperate the pro´s from the amateurs, when siglent is seriously interesting to be a player in the family of pro-outfitter, they must be more present in this cases than actual.

[rf-loop]

Either way it would be nice to put the Siglent SDS5000 and the R&S RTM3000 head to head once the  firmware for the SDS5000 reaches version 1.x .

2.x

(you perhaps know this "De ja vu")

[nctnico]

Either way it would be nice to put the Siglent SDS5000 and the R&S RTM3000 head to head once the  firmware for the SDS5000 reaches version 1.x .

2.x

(you perhaps know this "De ja vu")

According to my sources the SDS5000 firmware is currently at version 0.8-ish.

[Performa01]

Hello Performa01,

Thank you for the info. There is a huge gap between the 350Mhz price and the 500 Mhz 

Around 5000€, there will be some competitor like R&S promo....It will be difficult to choose 

When comparing the SDS5000X to a competing product, you should compare specifications and have a clear idea what is really important for you. If you think you need 10bit, then the R&S is the only option quite obviously. But let me express my honest opinion on this: 8bit is enough for the majority of tasks and should you ever need high resolution in a scope, chances are that 10bit won't cut it either. You'd want at least 12 bit, but then we're talking about LeCroy HDO series. If you don't need high bandwidth, then Picoscope 4000/5000 series could serve as a complement for the special tasks where you really need high physical resolution (that's the way how I personally handle it).

In any case you should also be aware that:

•   The SDS5000X comes as a fairly complete package; none of the essential features are optional (except for the digital channels, but then not everyone needs them, so it's okay to be an option).
•   If you actually need more than what comes as standard, options are quite reasonabl priced on the SDS5000X IMHO.
•   The SDS5000X series is far from feature complete yet. Siglent’s to-do list is much longer than what you’d possibly imagine. Some of these topics will be options, like additional decoders or analysis packages, but the majority will just improve/complement the standard functionality.

One that SDS50000X should be compared to is RTM3000K, but on that one promo is only for a fully loaded 1GHz one for 8600€.
Which is a good deal actually if you need 1GHz. Despite fact that on RTM3000K they don't even have search on basic protocols and segments so large memory they are promoting so much is pretty much useless...

I should point out that the SDS5000X cannot do a search for serial triggers right now. But I have requested this quite some time ago and it's on Siglent's to-do list.

Search across segments on the other hand – yet another request from me – has already been implemented in the latest firmware. Search is also reasonably fast, even with full 250MPts memory (<400ms per search) as I think I was able to demonstrate in an earlier post.

[Performa01]

What about the support.....
Not only Rigol concerning, also Siglent.
From Lecroy I am used to become a quick help what problems concerning.
I´ve told my departement manager about the siglent SDS5000 series and he replied, well let us invite a representative to show the benefits of an SDS 5000 - And me : ehhhh…...
This seperate the pro´s from the amateurs, when siglent is seriously interesting to be a player in the family of pro-outfitter, they must be more present in this cases than actual.

Since there is an increasing offer on midrange gear from Siglent, that's a valid request. At least in Europe I know about solid plans to improve product presentation/service to customers – despite the fact that Siglent is a rather small company with limited human resources. Because of that and the fact that Siglent don’t sell any gear directly, I guess this will most likely end up in tight partnerships with selected (competent and trustworthy) distributors.

Apart from that, you have two options:

1.)   You can wait until LeCroy includes the SDS5000X into their "Teledyne Test Tools" series. You'll pay a premium, but you'll get the support you're used to.

2.)   Right now you can just contact Siglent Europe headquarter, either via the contact form on their web page  https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/ or just send an email to info-eu@siglent.com (you can use German language!) and they will arrange something.

[0xdeadbeef]

1.)   You can wait until LeCroy includes the SDS5000X into their "Teledyne Test Tools" series. You'll pay a premium, but you'll get the support you're used to.

I somewhat doubt this will ever happen. LeCroy's current strategy seems to be to relabel only models "below" the WS3000Z (and yes, I know, the WS3000Z is the result of a cooperation with Siglent, but it's not a rebrand). But letting aside the reduced bandwidth in the low voltage ranges and a slightly lower specified update rate, the SDS5000X has better specs than a WS3000Z in important aspects like sample rate and memory depth. So it will be hard to place the SD5000X as low cost option below the WS3000X and placing it next to the WS3000X or even slightly above doesn't seem to make much sense from LeCroy's perspective. At least it would be hard to explain why someone should pay much more for the WS3000X. I.e. the SDS5034X with VAT costs ~3.4k€ while the WaveSurfer 3034Z with VAT costs ~7.9k€, so even if LeCroy would double the price for the SDS5034X rebrand and remove the decoders, it would still be cheaper than the WS3034Z.

[EEVblog]

Test post due to consistent 500 error. 
Reported for admins to investigate.

No other reports.
Testing...
EDIT: Hmm, a small PNG (different to below) took ages to load and then failed.

[0xdeadbeef]

For the record: Dave uses his SDS5104X in the "sinc" video ... and seems to have stumbled over a bug in this short demonstration.

[tv84]

According to my sources the SDS5000 firmware is currently at version 0.8-ish.

The one I looked into had FW v4.6.0.8.0R1B5.

[0xdeadbeef]

Looked into? Already gave it back? No "investigation" going on?

[nctnico]

According to my sources the SDS5000 firmware is currently at version 0.8-ish.

The one I looked into had FW v4.6.0.8.0R1B5.

Then it is a) weird people talk about .8-ish and b) not in Beta stage like I assumed? Or does B5 indicate it is a Beta version?

[tv84]

Looked into? Already gave it back? No "investigation" going on?

Yep. "Investigation" ended successfully.