concerning TEquipment

[Kappes Buur]

Maybe I am expecting too much, but ......

So, some time ago, I bought a Rigol DS2072A  from TEquipment.NET. No doubt about it, they were very friendly and accommodating.

But somehow I feel that their attitude has changed quite a bit after the sale was completed. Since then I have received numerous emails detailing what else they would like to sell me, but absolutely nothing, not a single word, about after market support giving a hint that a new firmware is available or where I might be able to download it. Obviously they do have my email address.

Reading some replys by fellow eevblog members, when they contacted Rigol about firmware updates they were referred to TEquipment as the appropriate agent for North America.

How much could it possibly take for TEquipment to contact their customers about important updates for equipment they had bought. After all, they already have a database with all email addresses and what item each customer had purchased.

Well, as I said, maybe I just expect too much in the way of aftermarket support.

What do you think about this ?

[FrankenPC]

Their prices are pretty competitive.  Slicing the profit margin does imply less in your face coddling.  I'm OK with that.  In fact, I prefer it.  I don't want someone randomly calling and kissing my butt to try get me to buy something (I'm looking at you Tektronix) 

As for their responsiveness, just last week I ordered something that was out of stock (the item was only $200...not something major).  They called me up and offered to ship me a demo unit to hold on to until the permanent one arrived.  THAT is SERVICE.  I love Tequipment.net. 

DISCLAIMER:  I am NOT affiliated with Tequipment.net...

[nanofrog]

How old/long ago were people told that TEquipment.net was the source for firmware in NA?

I ask, as now Rigol has an office in the US, and a NA website (rigolna.com). Firmware is done via requests (here). So there may be some confusion due to the shift. 

[lpc32]

Why aren't updates available directly for download?

[John Coloccia]

Well, as I said, maybe I just expect too much in the way of aftermarket support.

What do you think about this ?

I do think you're maybe expecting too much.  If they do it, great, but I think it would take an awful lot of effort to do this with every product.  Normally, you register with the manufacturer and they would update you as they're in the best position to know what's applicable and important to you.  Like everyone else, I've also have nothing but good experiences with TEquipment.  Janel is great too.  Really, they've all been pleasant to deal with....MCMElectronics, Techni-Tool, etc.

I'm also confused why updates aren't just available online.  Maybe there's just such a jumble of different versions of product and firmware that the only way to get the right firmware is to talk to someone knowledgable and have them figure it out?

[lpc32]

Even if there was a variety of sub-variants (I don't think that's the case), it's easy enough to have a reference table and ask the user to check the exact model number or serial number. Or have an update mechanism that applies the right firmware out of a collection, or just indicates if it's the wrong update. I don't see any problem with firmware updates in PC gear, audio gear, TVs...

[nowlan]

Normally you would register a product, and get put on a mailing list. I wouldnt expect a store to contact me, unless there was a recall of the product.

[tequipment]

The way firmware is issued has changed with Rigol.  Rigol in the US often dosent get good release notes.

In the next 1-2 months there will be a formal program for firmware.  This is a worldwide complaint that is being addressed now.

Thanks
Evan Cirelli
TEquipment.NET

[tequipment]

One more note.  Often firmware upgrades are for small issues that dont affect most people.  I user can brick a piece of equipment if they do it wrong or skip steps.  Usually the firmware releases are not pushed out for this reason.  Again though a more formal program from Rigol is coming soon. I was just in China and talked to the product managers about this.

Thanks
Evan Cirelli

TEquipment.NET

[vopt]

I ordered a scope yesterday from Tequipment, and should get it on Monday. I found it amusing that I got my first spam email from them today. I'm not really annoyed, but that's a bit aggressive. Bad timing I guess.

Dave

[Wuerstchenhund]

I user can brick a piece of equipment if they do it wrong or skip steps.

If that's the case then the update process is shit and needs to be fixed, period. In this day and age users can reasonably expect that all they need to do is to put the firmware file on a flash drive, plug this into the device and press a button, and that the device then checks if this is the correct update file (and if not stops the update process) and CRC it, and if that's successful then flashes it. For the (extremely rare) case of a power outage during the flash process there should be an emergency loader in a ROM which allows re-flashing the firmware if it went unsuccessful.

Firmware updates work fine for PCs, cellphones, TVs, tablets, routers and many other consumer gear and and don't result in people bricking their devices. And most of the people using these devices are probably less technically skilled than the average Oscilloscope or T&M user.

If you can brick a Rigol by applying the wrong firmware update or skipping steps then Rigol has skimped on putting in basic checks in their firmware process, and they should go and fix that.

[marmad]

If you can brick a Rigol by applying the wrong firmware update or skipping steps then Rigol has skimped on putting in basic checks in their firmware process, and they should go and fix that.

This is certainly not true of their new gear - I haven't seen a single report of this happening with their UltraVision DSOs (which all have built-in bootloaders). And I think it only happened with hacked firmware on their older gear.

The standard response from Rigol that "A user can brick a piece of equipment if they do it wrong or skip steps.  Usually the firmware releases are not pushed out for this reason." is total nonsense. The reason firmware is not pushed out is because of the rampant hacking of their firmware to enable higher-end models or costly features - everybody already knows this. Rigol just has to bite the bullet and realize that this is going to happen regardless of their silly attempts to limit availability - and join the rest of the companies in the 21st century that just post their updates online.

[mjkuwp]

Regarding the 'spam'

If you do business with Tequipment and they send you a marketing email - that is not spam.  Spam is unsolicited email sent indiscriminately by strangers(criminals) to nobody (everybody) in particular.

There should be a little link at the bottom of emails that will allow you to unsubscribe.  This will work - at least in the USA.  Otherwise, simply contact them and ask to be removed from mailing lists.

hopefully not too far off topic - I maintain a rather complicated system of email addresses using a unique one for nearly all companies.  I have never received spam on those addresses.  The spam came from the email used for my wife's facebook account - the one I give to family members - and the one I registered with Google - but I simply changed that one to cut off the spam.  In other words, it is not companies that lose email addresses to spammers - it is regular folks that probably have malware or viruses on their computer... sorry tiny bit off topic.

I like Tequipment.  I have purchased at least 3 things from them so far - the last being a Rigol MSO2000 series scope.  They have been good to work with.

fwiw, i would not expect Tequipment to keep track of firmware updates.  After getting the scope from them in working order - don't need them anymore.

[miguelvp]

I never get any spam from tequipment at all but I usually uncheck the send e-mails so if they did have one I'm sure I did uncheck it.

[Terabyte2007]

As other posts have stated, TEquipment is very competitive in their pricing, could be the reason for the lack of full service. I have had positive transactions with them for all of my purchases and mostly rely on the MFG for support and updates. Agilent is very diligent with their updates and support, Rigol has been good also, mainly dealing with the US office. I look at TEquipment more of a box sale company rather than a full service company, maybe that's why I have a different opinion.

[nctnico]

I never get any spam from tequipment at all but I usually uncheck the send e-mails so if they did have one I'm sure I did uncheck it.

Still IMHO it is pretty lame you have to take action not to receive unsollicited e-mails.

[Marco]

I user can brick a piece of equipment if they do it wrong or skip steps.

Please tell them that memory is far too cheap to have this be a problem and to stop doing it wrong.

[DanielS]

Please tell them that memory is far too cheap to have this be a problem and to stop doing it wrong.

A much bigger issue with bricking would be CPUs and microcontrollers having only one or two possible boot addresses so all the memory in the world is not going to save you if that address has garbled data in it due to a failed update.

In theory, bricking should not happen on microcontrollers with a bootloader block but every now and then, you might want to update the bootloader itself and if something goes wrong there, ISP might be the only way to recover.

Sure, you could have a watchdog circuit cycle through multiple chip-enables on separate firmware chips in case the instrument fails to boot but that is a ton of extra complexity for something that will likely never be needed by 99% of people.

[tequipment]

Hello everyone.  Yes if you unsubscribe it kills the name of of our database.  If you PM me I can make sure you are removed. As for the firmware this comes from Rigol.  They are currently upgrading their firmware release system to better inform customers.  If you PM I can give you the correct contact.

We value our customers and have an excellent reputation.  Thanks for the business.

Evan Cirelli

Vice President and Founding Member
TEquipment.NET

[Marco]

A much bigger issue with bricking would be CPUs and microcontrollers having only one or two possible boot addresses so all the memory in the world is not going to save you if that address has garbled data in it due to a failed update.

If you just do do a double buffered update,  updating the address change after completion it's almost impossible to screw up the process. We're talking about something you could handle in the time between the plug being pulled and the power supply capacitor going low enough to cause problems.

If you're that paranoid though you can always start with a tiny bootstrap bootloader which goes to the factory default bootloader/firmware if a button is pressed.

[DrJoe]

My 2 cents - I've been very happy with TEquipment, good prices and fast shipping. I like their occasional solicitations - just ordered a Fluke 289 that I was on the fence about, when they had their "1-Day-Only 5% off everything" sale. I'm sure they have an unsubscribe button on the emails that they will honor if you don't want the emails.

I do find the request for reviews on purchased equipment a bit annoying as they ask too soon after the equipment ships. I don't have a strong enough feel for the item to write a review a week after I receive it, heck, sometimes I haven't even opened it the first week!  They should send out the review request after a couple months, not the first 5 days...

[Mark_O]

My 2 cents - I've been very happy with TEquipment, good prices and fast shipping. I like their occasional solicitations - just ordered a Fluke 289 that I was on the fence about, when they had their "1-Day-Only 5% off everything" sale. I'm sure they have an unsubscribe button on the emails that they will honor if you don't want the emails.

I'd agree with that assessment.  Tequipment is one of the best companies around, in my book.  They do a very professional job.  And if you don't find their periodic emails useful, opting out takes a few seconds.  No clue what all the griping here is about.  That takes more time and effort than opting out does.

I do find the request for reviews on purchased equipment a bit annoying as they ask too soon after the equipment ships. I don't have a strong enough feel for the item to write a review a week after I receive it, heck, sometimes I haven't even opened it the first week!  They should send out the review request after a couple months, not the first 5 days...

I share your opinion on that as well.  Perhaps a suggestion to Evan that scheduling review requests for somewhere in a 4-8 week window would be more productive.  I'm sure it's automated, so the current 7-day (or whatever) could easily be revised to something more appropriate.

[Psi]

i agree, if you can brick a device by simply killing the power during the flashing process then the device was designed badly.

If cosmic rays flip a bit in flash and that bricks it then ok sure, that's random and unpredictable.

Flashmem is cheap, having a backup copy of the firmware is a no-brainer.

[Mark_O]

I do find the request for reviews on purchased equipment a bit annoying as they ask too soon after the equipment ships. I don't have a strong enough feel for the item to write a review a week after I receive it, heck, sometimes I haven't even opened it the first week!  They should send out the review request after a couple months, not the first 5 days...

I share your opinion on that as well.  Perhaps a suggestion to Evan that scheduling review requests for somewhere in a 4-8 week window would be more productive.  I'm sure it's automated, so the current 7-day (or whatever) could easily be revised to something more appropriate.

And to clarify a bit, I really wouldn't say I find it "annoying", so much as useless.  I.e., when I get those, I say "Huh?", since it's obviously too soon for me to have formed an opinion.  So I just delete them. 

Which doesn't help Tequipment (or their customers) either, since I'm sure they would get more reviews, if the requests were timed more appropriately.

[LabSpokane]

Tequipment is a good, reputable company. They are serving the budget market and doing so well.

If one wants premium service, there is the option to buy a premium product. There's not much margin in a scope that costs the same as an ipad.   And that's not a dig against Rigol.  You're getting more than one has a right to expect for $800 and change.

(Edited to correct $)