Well, you could start by reading the standards they test to.
Unfortunately I can't do that. If caught I could lose membership in the anti-safety league.
All seriousness aside, I am more interested in the actual meter you used and the equipment for the test. Obviously more of a science experiment and not something the average arduinotard hobbyist would encounter but still interesting. Kinda like the equipment in that Fluke "public service" video ( http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=821.0 ). Maybe a photo or at least more info on that meter and test setup.
Well for your information we ban people like you here. So which is it going to be ?
I never initiate personal attacks. Ever. But when dudes like you and Lightage start I do enjoy playing. Please continue. But I do think you can do better than that. Maybe slightly less lame next time.
Please show me where I made a personal attack on you, and not and attack on your actions or assertions. If you show me a personal attack I will apologize. I can show you where you have made personal attacks if you really care.
I really would like to see if these meters that are being offered as "safe" really are able to not break down.
The Internet would be all over it if even the cheapest Fluke broke down or didn't meet the rating printed on the front.
Uni-T? It seems like a crap-shoot. Dave's covered an unsafe Uni-T that cost him
$180 of his own money:
And BTW I do know the difference. Exactly $36 USD. And with some element of "Lamborghini Syndrome" and touch of FUD.
Please be sure to hold the meter in your hand the next time you connect one to mains in the "Ohms" or "Amps" range. Trail the wires across your arm. Let's see if you think $36 is worth it or not.
Please show me where I made a personal attack on you, and not and attack on your actions or assertions. If you show me a personal attack I will apologize.
you thread crap with rantings about elitists and your encouraging people to believe that parts of a circuit board should be relied upon for safety.
...
Believe what you want, but understand your BS will get called.
Calling somebody a crapper and bullshitter is pretty mild as insults go, certainly not on a par with Shockie, but so was my response. And I didn't say I never engage in personal attacks, I just don't INITIATE them.
Anyway I got a PM threat so looks like some comments made in the other forum about dannyf may have awakened sleeping giants. Probably a good idea to close this thread before I end up like him. Truth and justice not always a high priority but I think a few of the "silent majority" may have reason to rethink prevailing belief systems.
One thing to keep in mind:
When it comes to safety standards like 61010, 60079, CSA 22.2, NFPA 70 (The NEC in the U.S.), along with all the others out there, a significant percentage of the sections in those standards come about because someone got hurt, something caught on fire, or something blew up.
I never initiate personal attacks. Ever...
Why did you quote my message to the OP in the other thread and write the below?
LOL. The naysayer brigade has arrived !!!
It's absolutely amazing how quickly these old wives tales catch on. And how they do persist. Ignorance and superstition reign supreme. Do NOT forget to check under the bed for those wolves. You could lose an... ummmm... ANKLE!
All I did was offer the original poster advice, I wasn't talking to you at all. Looks pretty personal and directed to me paulie. Then you started this thread with:
BTW this is a continuation of the discussion in another thread which was totally hijacked starting on second page
Ironic since the hijacking was done by you. The moderators aren't dumb, you can't hide behind the playground "I didn't start it". They can read with their own eyes and determine if you were being a dickhead. Which apparently you were since you admit you were trolling.
Are you kidding me? I LOVE hearing this stuff. Getting guys like you going is one of the main reasons to keep coming back here. Hooking borderline personalities is every trolls dream. Actually it's better than just trolling for me... more like shooting the fish in a barrel.... no tackle or lines required. LOL. I never initiate personal attacks. Ever. But when dudes like you and Lightage start I do enjoy playing. Please continue. But I do think you can do better than that. Maybe slightly less lame next time.
Not as much fun as seeing Trolls get banned.
Probably a good idea to close this thread before I end up like him. Truth and justice not always a high priority but I think a few of the "silent majority" may have reason to rethink prevailing belief systems...
Keep waiving the flag on this sinking ship captain she's going down with a crew of one!
Uni-T? It seems like a crap-shoot. Dave's covered an unsafe Uni-T that cost him $180 of his own money:
Actually if Dave had just searched his own forums he would seen all the same complaints he raised already documented in detail. The first one was my post about this meter in 2010.
Please show me where I made a personal attack on you, and not and attack on your actions or assertions. If you show me a personal attack I will apologize.
you thread crap with rantings about elitists and your encouraging people to believe that parts of a circuit board should be relied upon for safety.
...
Believe what you want, but understand your BS will get called.
Calling somebody a crapper and bullshitter is pretty mild as insults go, certainly not on a par with Shockie, but so was my response. And I didn't say I never engage in personal attacks, I just don't INITIATE them.
And where did I attack you? So you can't show I attacked you, only that I attacked your actions and assertions but that still counts as a personal attack. Yes, you do have more fun with your wild assertion and accusations just like you said. Perhaps you got up on the wrong side of the bed when you started these rounds of attacks, but to continue them does show your agenda and you have even said that you are trolling here. So I will stop responding to self admitted trolls. My apologies to everyone else for feeding him.
Are you kidding me? I LOVE hearing this stuff. Getting guys like you going is one of the main reasons to keep coming back here. Hooking borderline personalities is every trolls dream. Actually it's better than just trolling for me... more like shooting the fish in a barrel.... no tackle or lines required. LOL
And that's how you get yourself banned on a forum
BTW, heads up, Paulie uses many different IP addresses to post so he could sneak back in under another name.
Uni-T? It seems like a crap-shoot.
That pretty much sums up Uni-T.
They do make a couple of reasonably well made meters for the price, it's shame they have ruin it with a whole bunch of crap moels.
It doesn't help when their model numbering system is confusing. e.g. a UT-61D is completely different to a UT-61E
Honestly, I'm surprised that BK Precision meters don't get more love around here. IMHO,unless you really need the durability of a Fluke, they seem to hit a great price/performance point...usable continuity test, fast auto-ranging, decent probes, good build quality, reasonable input protection, generally good performance. I've used a lot of the cheaper meters, and I have an Extech kicking around, but dollar for dollar, I still like BK best out of the lower priced meters.
Honestly, I'm surprised that BK Precision meters don't get more love around here. IMHO,unless you really need the durability of a Fluke, they seem to hit a great price/performance point...usable continuity test, fast auto-ranging, decent probes, good build quality, reasonable input protection, generally good performance. I've used a lot of the cheaper meters, and I have an Extech kicking around, but dollar for dollar, I still like BK best out of the lower priced meters.
BK 393 looks pretty interesting I must say. Not sure why they aren't more popular.
Joe, how did you kill the BK in the first place?
A simple answer to the OP question and linked discussion is that the risk of explosion, or injury to the operator for other reasons such as burns or electric shock, rises with the CAT conditions the DMM is applied too.
As a rule, the safety capacity of a DMM should be tied to its maximum measurement capability because a user may use a DMM up to those limits, under
any CAT conditions, despite the CAT rating being written on the DMM.
Unless the DMM is 3rd party certified by a NRTL rated safety organization, like UL or ETL, a buyer cannot know if the printed CAT limit is correct.
Finally, the build quality could cause the meter to malfunction at a random period later in its life without warning. This could be anywhere from simply drifting off calibration to a full failure, so if you use a tool for high reliability, you are best getting multiple DMMs or/and a model with a reputation for reliability.
I would slightly modify as follows:
"The ONLY correct advice in online forums IMHO is to tell people to do things correctly. Don't poke multimeters into mains sockets UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING."
Dave's video says the multimeter exploded in his hand. I'm sure Dave knows what he's doing.
Maybe we can agree on: "Don't poke multimeters into mains sockets UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING and bought a Fluke."
(Yes, there are other brands out there apart from Fluke but this is 'general advice for Joe Public' and how many non EEVBLOG-readers would know where to buy a Brymen/Gossen/Agilent/whatever?)
Well, even a Fluke can almost explode. My electrician colleague had his fluke voltage tester T90 (not a multi-meter but voltage tester) measure 3 phase (400V) then boom, the top part of the tester, i.e. the red probe split opened and you could see the burnt stuff inside. Anyway he still only trusts Fluke but now only buys any higher version than the T90.
I would slightly modify as follows:
"The ONLY correct advice in online forums IMHO is to tell people to do things correctly. Don't poke multimeters into mains sockets UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING."
Dave's video says the multimeter exploded in his hand. I'm sure Dave knows what he's doing.
Maybe we can agree on: "Don't poke multimeters into mains sockets UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING and bought a Fluke."
(Yes, there are other brands out there apart from Fluke but this is 'general advice for Joe Public' and how many non EEVBLOG-readers would know where to buy a Brymen/Gossen/Agilent/whatever?)
Well, even a Fluke can almost explode. My electrician colleague had his fluke voltage tester T90 (not a multi-meter but voltage tester) measure 3 phase (400V) then boom, the top part of the tester, i.e. the red probe split opened and you could see the burnt stuff inside. Anyway he still only trusts Fluke but now only buys any higher version than the T90.
Any device can fail under extreme circumstances or as a result of manufacturing defect, the difference is that some don't even attempt to avoid failure!
Joe, how did you kill the BK in the first place?
I blew the IC back on page 3. You can see the waveform there as well. I was actually surprised this killed it.
The original damage was maybe 3 or so years ago. Meter was well over 10 years old by that time. I was looking at a HV DC supply with it but was well below the limit of the meter. Then the meter's readings started to become erratic. Changed the battery and it was still doing it. Then it self healed.
While doing this, the current on the supply was not changing so it was not like something was breaking down.
What is interesting is that the meter had not been turned on for the last several years. I put a battery in it and swept the input to 1KV like it did with the other low cost meters and saw no problems. Maybe the selector switch had started to wear out.
BK 393 looks pretty interesting I must say. Not sure why they aren't more popular.
I would like to try one myself.
I like Fluke's intrinsically safe meters. I had seen a youtube video on it and it look very well protected. Potted fuse, etc. If I were going for what I would consider safe, this is where I would start.
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/auen/solutions/intrinsically-safe/
Damn so I go on holiday for a bit and the place has gone crazy
