REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol

[marmad]

Well oke, no problem,  then we differ from opinion about that.......

It's not opinion, my friend - I don't think you understand how it's supposed to work. As mentioned in the text I copied and pasted, the trigger's purpose is to allow you to set two threshold voltages - creating a "window" in-between - and then have the DSO trigger if the signal enters OR exits (OR either) that "window". In the given example, monitoring a 5V power supply for positive and/or negative excursions outside the range of 4.5 and 5.5 volts.

This is exactly what the Rigol's Windows trigger can do -  albeit hopefully with some changed names in a later FW

[Wim13]

Well oke, no problem,  then we differ from opinion about that.......

It's not opinion, my friend - I don't think you understand how it's supposed to work. As mentioned in the text I copied and pasted, the trigger's purpose is to allow you to set two threshold voltages - creating a "window" in-between - and then have the DSO trigger if the signal enters OR exits (OR either) that "window". In the given example, monitoring a 5V power supply for positive and/or negative excursions outside the range of 4.5 and 5.5 volts.

This is exactly what the Rigol's Windows trigger can do -  albeit hopefully with some changed names in a later FW

As far i read all the info, it has to be T2 AND T1, but your interpretation is T1 OR T2, oke that makes this topic more simple

see if i can find more on it.

[Wim13]

The folowing test, to see where i am wrong,

Picture 1, T1 and T2 above, no trigger possible
Picture 2, T1 and T2 low, perfect trigger

( rise and exit on. )

Why is there no trigger possible in picture 1.......

[marmad]

As far i read all the info, it has to be T2 AND T1, but your interpretation is T1 OR T2, oke that makes this topic more simple

see if i can find more on it.

Why would it be T1 AND T2? How would that help in the given example of looking for power supply fluctuations? It has to fluctuate both up AND down? It makes no sense.

[marmad]

( rise and exit on. )

Why is there no trigger possible in picture 1.......

There is no real "RISE" - it's TOP WINDOW - and your signal is never exiting the top window.

[marmad]

Set T1 to 5.5V and T2 to 4.5V - then ENTER and EITHER (Rising and Falling Arrows) - and you will replicate the trigger description here. As I've mentioned a million times already Rigol uses a TWO window definition with a deadband; I personally would prefer a SINGLE window definition - but then they would have to reverse the ENTER/EXIT functions.

[Pasky]

Sorry to steer off topic, but is there a link to your latest VISA software Marmad?  I don't remember what thread I found it in, but the last time I downloaded it was roughly this summer.

[Galaxyrise]

When changing the vertical scale on the channel, I find it extremely annoying turning the position knob to find my signal again.  When I want to look at a 5V dc signal, and have it set to 50mV, I find myself turning the vertical positioning knob for what seems like forever. 

Try changing the VerticalExp setting: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg311883/#msg311883

[marmad]

Question on the usage of the DS2072.  I've found one thing extremely annoying issue, but perhaps there's a course/fine setting for the position knob that I'm unaware of.  When changing the vertical scale on the channel, I find it extremely annoying turning the position knob to find my signal again.  When I want to look at a 5V dc signal, and have it set to 50mV, I find myself turning the vertical positioning knob for what seems like forever.  Is there any way to do this faster?  I know you can press the knob button to get to 0V, but even that can take forever going from 0V to 5V in such tiny increments.  Thanks.

@Pasky: While thinking back on your question, it dawned on me that I didn't think to ask you exactly what you're trying to do. Forgive me if the following is obvious to you, but if you're looking for disturbances in a 5V DC signal, using AC coupling will center the signal at 0V (screen center) but also pass glitches and other disturbances you can zoom in on. If you're trying to "zoom in" on the upper edge of a 0 to 5V waveform, it's not going to work because you're going to overdrive the input amp - and whatever edge you see will end up being distorted anyway.

Sorry to steer off topic, but is there a link to your latest VISA software Marmad?  I don't remember what thread I found it in, but the last time I downloaded it was roughly this summer.

I'm hard at work on a major new version now - and haven't uploaded any versions since last February (a year of house renovations later). So I think you must have the latest

[marmad]

Try changing the VerticalExp setting: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg311883/#msg311883

Damn!! I thought that was somewhere in the settings - but couldn't find it today when looking. It really should be in the Channel Menus!

(And ideally stored and remembered for each channel.)

[Galaxyrise]

Why is there no trigger possible in picture 1.......

The trigger is set to fire when the signal enters the top window, but the signal never enters the top window. 

The icon for the trigger kind of indicates that the point is a transition between "middle" and "not middle" areas, and then you configure which transitions are interesting (middle-top, middle-bottom, or both; etc.)

And yes, based on our current understanding of the trigger, a "top" trigger does nothing with the lower trigger threshold.

[marmad]

The trigger is set to fire when the signal enters the top window, but the signal never enters the top window.  The legend for the trigger (upper left) is actually clearer than the text. 

I'm not sure there's anything clear about Rigol's legends and names for this (and some other) triggers   They also seem to have skimped on storage space for the different trigger icons used at the top, which rarely change due to conditions you set for the trigger (they only change for Edge, Pulse, and Slope).

The icon you posted stays the same regardless of conditions. And the delta icon and level doesn't make sense if you think of the area as 2 windows. They only use it because they don't devote enough screen real estate for two distinct voltage levels.

I wrote software for displaying extended trigger information in RUU because, for the complex triggers, the amount of info Rigol displays is pathetic. Take a look at one of my screen images posted from RUU (with Trigger Level indicators turned ON) and decide if it or the DSO provides better insight into what the Windows trigger is doing

[Galaxyrise]

The icon you posted stays the same regardless of conditions. And the delta icon and level doesn't make sense if you think of the area as 2 windows. They only use it because they don't devote enough screen real estate for two distinct voltage levels.

Aww, such a missed opportunity! Firmware update suggestion   Ok, I'll redact my post.

[marmad]

Aww, such a missed opportunity! Firmware update suggestion   Ok, I'll redact my post.

Absolutely! If they just got creative with their icons at the top, they could provide a lot more information than they do

[Pasky]

Question on the usage of the DS2072.  I've found one thing extremely annoying issue, but perhaps there's a course/fine setting for the position knob that I'm unaware of.  When changing the vertical scale on the channel, I find it extremely annoying turning the position knob to find my signal again.  When I want to look at a 5V dc signal, and have it set to 50mV, I find myself turning the vertical positioning knob for what seems like forever.  Is there any way to do this faster?  I know you can press the knob button to get to 0V, but even that can take forever going from 0V to 5V in such tiny increments.  Thanks.

@Pasky: While thinking back on your question, it dawned on me that I didn't think to ask you exactly what you're trying to do. Forgive me if the following is obvious to you, but if you're looking for disturbances in a 5V DC signal, using AC coupling will center the signal at 0V (screen center) but also pass glitches and other disturbances you can zoom in on. If you're trying to "zoom in" on the upper edge of a 0 to 5V waveform, it's not going to work because you're going to overdrive the input amp - and whatever edge you see will end up being distorted anyway.

Oh sorry, that was just an example off the top of my head to, I'm not really doing anything in particular, I just found it extremely annoying to zoom in on any wave form in the lower mV divisions.

Also thanks that VerticalEx setting did the trick

[marmad]

Also thanks that VerticalEx setting did the trick

Yeah! It was great that Galaxyrise posted that info: I was sure that function existed on the DS2000 when you first posted the question, but I couldn't find it in any of the menus or docs I looked in - so then I thought I must have confused it with another DSO (since I owned 3 other ones in a span of about 2 months).

[m-joy]

Hello,

can someone explain me how to use the self cal feature?
The manual says i should connect the trigger out on the back with CH1, CH2 and Extern trigger.
Does that mean, i have to connect all at once? What is the best way to connect one BNC to all 3 inputs?
Do i have to calibrate or is it calibrated on delivery?

[Altemir]

Hello,

can someone explain me how to use the self cal feature?
The manual says i should connect the trigger out on the back with CH1, CH2 and Extern trigger.
Does that mean, i have to connect all at once? What is the best way to connect one BNC to all 3 inputs?
Do i have to calibrate or is it calibrated on delivery?

From Rigol's site:

Does the DS2000 Scope require external connections for self calibration? 
ANSWER: The DS2000 series self calibration routine specifies no connections to the inputs on the front panel. Early versions of the User's Manual are incorrect.

But I did not find new versions of UM, where this is has corrected

I saw special cables and simpe board for DS4000 calibration, and for DS6000 is document: http://www.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Documents/Rigol/DS6102/ds6102_doc_7.pdf

[marmad]

The manual says i should connect the trigger out on the back with CH1, CH2 and Extern trigger.
Does that mean, i have to connect all at once? What is the best way to connect one BNC to all 3 inputs?

That's a mistake copied from the DS4000 manual - you should have no connections to front BNCs when you do a self-calibration.

Do i have to calibrate or is it calibrated on delivery?

It's been factory calibrated - but it's not a bad idea to do a self-calibration occasionally to optimize the signal path for maximum measurement accuracy. You can run the routine at any time but should always run it if the ambient temperature changes by 5°C or more. Just make sure it has been powered on for at least 30 minutes before running the self-cal.

[AndersAnd]

From Rigol's site:

Does the DS2000 Scope require external connections for self calibration? 
ANSWER: The DS2000 series self calibration routine specifies no connections to the inputs on the front panel. Early versions of the User's Manual are incorrect.

But I did not find new versions of UM, where this is has corrected

Here you are, both the old DS2000 and the much newer DS2000A User's Guide say "Disconnect all the input channel connections".

DS2000 User's Guide 2012-09-21
http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/User_guide/DS2000_UserGuide_EN.pdf

DS2000A User's Guide 2013-12-02 (same as DS2000 + 50 ohm input option)
http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/User_guide/DS2000A_UserGuide_EN.pdf
Page 14:

Self-calibration

The self-calibration program can quickly make the oscilloscope reach the best working state to get the most precise measurement values. You can perform self-calibration at any time especially when the change of the environment temperature is up to or more than 5 ?. Make sure that the oscilloscope has been warmed up or operated for more than 30 minutes before the self-calibration.
 
Disconnect all the input channel connections, and then press Utility -> Self-Cal and the self-calibration interface as shown in the figure below is displayed.
 
Press Start and the oscilloscope will start to execute the self-calibration program.
Press Exit to give up the self-calibration operation at any time and return to the previous menu.
 
Note: Most of the keys are disabled during the self-calibration.

[marmad]

Now if someone just answers him a fourth time, I think he might finally understand.

[pascal_sweden]

Has it been confirmed already that the HW design is identical between DS2072A and DS2302A?

I know that it has been confirmed between DS2072 and DS2202, but not for the A series AFAIK, and especially not for the new 300 MHz variant.

[Altemir]

Here you are, both the old DS2000 and the much newer DS2000A User's Guide say "Disconnect all the input channel connections".

Wow, You found a last UM! Thanks. I saw on www.rigolna.com, there is old versions.

[marmad]

Has it been confirmed already that the HW design is identical between DS2072A and DS2302A?

No, but I'm pretty sure your question has been answered before. It's highly unlikely Rigol would produce one hardware variant of an entire series for one model - but no one (here) owns a DS2302A and with published hacks all over the net, it's unlikely many people will buy them.

[Carrington]

Hi guys.
Anyone know how much memory uses the DS2072 to estimate the FFT?
Thanks.