HP 70K/HP 70000 Modular Measurement System Thread

[pquadrat]

Hi all
My name is Paul Bicknell and I live on the south coast in England

Although I am new to this site I have been playing with HP 70 K for a few years now
And I might know a few of you from the Groups IO site 

I am presently trying to decide on the replacement capacitors to rebuild the power supplies in
3 off 70900 A local oscillators that have failed

My next project is to modify a 70900 B local oscillators to have
The latest firmware and 512 K of memory upgrade
also the receiver personality could anyone please help me with the following

Dear PQUADRAT  Could I take you up on your offer of how you did your upgrade
Also could you please let me have the make and part numbers of the sockets you used
For your upgrade of the firmware memory ?
Also What equipment do I require to program the firmware / ROM chips for the 70900B ?

Could you also explain the memory upgrade hopefully a picture before and after the 512 K memory upgrade

I have a 8705A 512K memory card how can I find out what is on it  ?
Can anyone help me with putting the receiver personality onto the 8705A 512K memory card ?

Regards Paul   PS sorry about the long list

Hi Paul,

For the capacitors I use good quality Panasonic ones, working perfect.

All my picture of the upgrade are in this thread. I don't have more.

the RAM Chips are: TC551001BFL-70
The EPROMs are  Intel N27C010-150, AMD AM27C010-150, or Flash chips 28F010 also work.
ROM content is on the net, You will have it.

I did use sockets on the first one, PLCC28 sockets should fit. But I had more problems with the sockets, so I soldered the other two boards without sockets.

For the RAM Upgrade, You have to change one PAL. Type is PALCE16V8. Not many programmers can programmers can program it. File is attached.

Soldering the ROMs is not that easy, I had to improve my soldering skills. RAMs are easier.

-Peter

[pquadrat]

This is the PAL content for the 1MB Upgrade.
In the previous thread it was the version for the 256kB version.

[Paul B]

Hi Peter

Thank you for your return email unfortunately i am not that good with software and computers and dealing with the firmware
so i might require a bit of help so could we possibility exchange email addresses ? as i am also new to this site

Regarding memory up grades from HP documentation on 70900B withe date code 901008 and later
RAM memory is 128 K and 700K  with the Option 512 but you refer to 256 K and 1024 K could you please explain the difference 

Best Regards Paul

[pquadrat]

Paul: PM sent.

[Paul B]

Hi Peter
just a line to create a bit of traffic
regarding the Groups IO site and the HP 70000 group hopefully you would agree that the site holds more data on HP 70000 than any other site available

Regards Paul

[cncjerry]

Jealousy starts every time I see something about the MMS!

I got really close to purchasing one and then Covid hit, work was busy etc.  I am out of room and thought I could consolidate down to an MMS from an 8566B, 8568B with TG and 85685 preamp and an 8568A that has the upgrade.  I also have an R&S FSB and an Advantest R3131a with the TG.  I figure if I sell those five units I should get close to a 7k analyzer in price.  I had originally wanted the 7K for the spectrum analyzer and phase noise test set, but I have PN covered now and the phase noise setup on the 7k is pricey.

Though I don't read much about it, I see there is a 70703a scope module but it doesn't strike me as general purpose.  I have a gaggle of scopes but if I can get everything out and free up space, it would be great.

I would like to build out the spectrum analyzer and then add a tracking generator.  Can you build a network analyzer into an MMS?

Thanks

Jerry

[pquadrat]

I think the scope module is no replacement for a real scope.

>I would like to build out the spectrum analyzer and then add a tracking generator.
I did the same, that is what the 70k system can do best, replace the 8566B/8568B.

Be carefull when buying a system that the YIG of the 70900B is still good.

[Paul B]

Regarding up grading to a 70 K system
first it would be good to know your location as i might be able to help you . Personal i am south coast UK
it sounds like you have a good set up at present regarding tracking generator what frequency do you want to go to ?
units that go to  2.9 Ghz are easily available but the 2.7 to 18 ghz i think are few and fare

I personalty do not put all my eggs in one basket and would not recommend it so use the 70 K as an analyser & individual units for scope , power , frequency generator / counter
yes thy were designed to be able to build exclusive test set ups but that was when you had 10 systems to play with

now the big thing if you think you will reduce your equipment then ask those that run 70 K most will probably have several systems
as in a typical bench might have a spectrum analyser , optical analyser , transition analyser  each with there own display
but also a host of supplies possibly made into a second spectrum analyser system others have then gone for a dedicated computer for the 70 K
   Paul

[cncjerry]

I am in the US, west coast, San Francisco bay area.  I was just wondering about the scope, and after the comments I see, I'll forget that component as I have all the scopes I need.  I have the TG for my FSB and that goes to 5Ghz but I've yet to install it.

I have to make space before I do anything.  There are a lot of modules available locally, just never know what is good.  I'm putting in another workbench and was hoping to have the MMS on there.  I just wish all this stuff wasn't so heavy because every time I move one my back is sore for a month.

[Paul B]

I stayed away from the 70K equipment beaus i did not know how to confider it but a bought a working system to start with
if you are going to start then best advise is to get a 70004 display and then a local oscillator and test it for errors in the  70004 display then
depending on the firmware level get an IF and an RF section so you can make a system all inside the 70004 display
once you have a working system it will put a smile on your face    Paul B

regarding heavy equipment make the bench so you can eater work behind it or twist it around to configure the rear connections after you have installed the 70K modules

[cncjerry]

I plan to put a flat caster setup under whatever I put on the new bench that is heavy.  I saw one the other day and cant find it now that was sort of triangular and had somewhat flat wheels.  Thanks for the advice on how to get started.  It makes sense and just what I was looking for.

[cncjerry]

with regards to the caster comment above, of course the wheels weren't flat... I guess I meant low.  That's one of the reasons I dont have my 8568b / 85685b   stack working - I can't get behind it.

I started looking for a 70004 and it seems like they jumped up in price compared to the last time I looked.  Usually in the bay area you can find almost anything with local pickup for a reasonable price.

[Paul B]

I have bought 70004 display units from traders for £150  / $200 but i would expect to pay up to $ 400 and no more
The  70900A is prone to more problems than the B version  but we think a capacitor replacement might raper the faulty A versions

I am just setting up to try to raper 3 off 70900 A units
I think a reasonable price for a working A version is $300 and $500 for a working B version the common fault is unable to lock VCO 
but this might not be a problem if testing the system with power meter modules  that are actually the cheapest modual available at less than $100 each

a 70 k stack consisting of a 70004 and a 70001 rack can be twisted around on a bench to reveal the back  without to much effort it is only fractionally taller and heaver than the 8568b / 85685b   stack

If you want i can direct you to a site i have populated with manuals and has more information on HP 70 K than any other site in the would about 100 free manuals plus more
Regards  Paul B

[cncjerry]

Paul, send me the site via PM or post if you like.  I'll keep looking for a good price on the 70004 and build from there.  I'll probably start clearing out the analyzers in the meantime.

[Paul B]

Hi you say (I'll probably start clearing out the analyzers in the meantime.)
hopefully not any HP 70 K
Paul B

[Paul B]

High Peter
Sorry for the long delay and any questions I might repeat
I have recently gon through COVID not a problem but I think I now get out of breath quicker

You refer to a link in your past Email but unfortunately I cannot open it can you please advise me
As I want to recap 3 off 70900 local oscillators  hopefully  return them back to good working order

Failing that has anyone found a replacement yig for the 70900 units
Regards Paul B     paul@bicknells.f2s.com     cell    + 44 (0) 7719 208 048

[TerraHertz]

Possibly, I may have caught the HP 70000 MMS bug. Catching covid in March wasn't a problem, but I think the MMS bug may be quite harmful. Myo-wallet-itis, or even SADS. (Sudden Affordability Death Syndroms)

Just arrived: a 70001A Mainframe with 70841B Pattern Generator and 70311A 3.3GHz Clock Source.
Heavy thing, 70lb.  Naturally the US seller's packing was laughably inadequate and it got some dinged corners in the USA leg of its journey. After it reached the reshipper in LA I had it repacked in foam-in-place, so no more damage on the way to Sydney.

Most physical damage is minor and already fixed, except for one thing. The modules are held in place by diecast metal screw retainers. Some box-drop impact sheared one of these retainers in half.

These have an 8mm hex socket on the front and some unidentified thread internally. The mating screws are 5.8mm OD, 24 teeth/inch.   Thanks HP, for not using a standard thread like M6 or 1/4" Whit.

Well where am I going to find a replacement retainer? Any ideas?

If someone has a broken HP 70000 system module they'd sell for spares, please let me know.

Meanwhile it will be a while before I can test this thing. I have some manuals, more to find. I got the Artek CLIP packages for the 70001A and 70004A mainframes.  In taking this mainframe apart to fix the metalwork I notice the power supply board has multiple RIFA caps in the mains input section. Those have to be replaced before I even turn it on. I have some HP 9000 systems but all still need work such as adding mass storage.

[tautech]

Any chance you had the manuals for these before purchasing one ? 

[SoundTech-LG]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9PgAAOSwsNxi5qfq/s-l1600.jpg




https://www.ebay.com/itm/334518729652?hash=item4de2debbb4:g:9PgAAOSwsNxi5qfq&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoIdnrID8wtr4whBb44jJidLvKHV%2FAITKiZsMPpsnftHXtQfk4vPE0wYq4e0%2Fq7rigspPbCojtfW8Ay%2F41huus1hiy8qqjn%2B6tdl%2BedjSJQ8FGjSo%2B7z64LvWXG2XZw4obTyCUBP6xUBJMw2oCnZojQJ9snHtlDoP9LL6gfylM0ION0k0UbygG0qdp17jEwY%2Fht4hUs1aiqGmrfljgKjjym0%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4CjxJ3gYA

[TerraHertz]

Any chance you had the manuals for these before purchasing one ? 

Some of them. More an exercise in checking out the availability of 70000-series manuals in general, and seeing what kind they are. A: well past the era when HP produced useful service manuals. Whether I can find CLIPs for these modules, don't know yet.

Most of my time lately has been going into something else. Old mum's health declined, taken to hospital then moved to nursing home, bedridden and declining rapidly. Me being the only one to clear out her house urgently and arrange the house sale. Now my place is stuffed full of multiple generations of family relics, with the job of culling it down still remaining. That was the house I mostly grew up in too. Sad times recently.

That mountain of manuals in the USA are still there, still mine. But I need to go there to handle the work myself, and a certain entity demands something before granting a visa, that I'm certainly not willing to accept. So just have to wait till something changes.  Which comes first - nuclear WWIII, Neuremburg II trials, total economic collapse, civil war, or I scrape in and rescue the manuals, who knows.


Added:
SoundTech-LG, brilliant, thank you. Bought. I'm a bit overwhelmed with worries lately. That's my excuse for not thinking of that. I hope they are the same as the heavy metal module ones. It would seem sensible that they would be, but with HP... fingers crossed.

[tautech]

Any chance you had the manuals for these before purchasing one ? 

Some of them. More an exercise in checking out the availability of 70000-series manuals in general, and seeing what kind they are. A: well past the era when HP produced useful service manuals. Whether I can find CLIPs for these modules, don't know yet.

Most of my time lately has been going into something else. Old mum's health declined, taken to hospital then moved to nursing home, bedridden and declining rapidly. Me being the only one to clear out her house urgently and arrange the house sale. Now my place is stuffed full of multiple generations of family relics, with the job of culling it down still remaining. That was the house I mostly grew up in too. Sad times recently.

That mountain of manuals in the USA are still there, still mine. But I need to go there to handle the work myself, and a certain entity demands something before granting a visa, that I'm certainly not willing to accept. So just have to wait till something changes.  Which comes first - nuclear WWIII, Neuremburg II trials, total economic collapse, civil war, or I scrape in and rescue the manuals, who knows.


Added:
SoundTech-LG, brilliant, thank you. Bought. I'm a bit overwhelmed with worries lately. That's my excuse for not thinking of that. I hope they are the same as the heavy metal module ones. It would seem sensible that they would be, but with HP... fingers crossed.

Oh hell, yes there are times in our lives when it seems you just can’t get a break ! 
Fingers crossed everything thing works out for the best for you.

[SoundTech-LG]

What would be brilliant, is if I could lose a 70000a Mainframe, a 70009 Display, and a lot of other stuff I'm not using...

[gabor.dani]

Hi,

Is there anyone who could post a video on youtube about HP 70004A with one of the spectrum analyzer modules (preferably 70908A, but no problem if other) installed and working in the following configuration:
Cal signal connected, center 300 Mhz, span 1Mhz

Reason for this:
Amazingly, there is currently no video of 70004a in SA configuration anywhere and it would be nice to see how fast it sweeps.

The only similar video is about 70206A graphics display:


I would like to compare them before buying any of them.

Thanks,

[dxl]

Reason for this:
Amazingly, there is currently no video of 70004a in SA configuration anywhere and it would be nice to see how fast it sweeps.

I can't say how fast it would sweep at 1MHz span, but max sweep speed depends on the LO used: the 70900A had a minimum of 50ms, the 70900B had 10ms.

[cncjerry]

I'm back.  Locally there is a 70k Spectrum Analyzer config with a 70100A power meter & probe, 70310A precision frequency reference, 70902A IF section, 70900B local oscillator, 70908A RF section, 70300A tracking generator and the 70001A mainframe.  It has the 70004 color display and manuals.  I committed to it last night but haven't heard back this morning...I hope I didn't miss it by a few hours, ha!  Price is $1,000 and that seems like a deal.  All the cables are there and it operates.  I was surprised that he has the manuals.

I'll add the wider 70903A IF module and go from there.  So now I am going to sell my 8568b with 85685a, my R&S FSB and I'm kicking around selling my 8566B but note, and reason for my post, that to get the MMS to 22Gig, you have to spend a fair amount of money.  What modules do I need to take it to 22Gig?

Thanks,

Jerry