Magnova oscilloscope

[moerm]

You are one precarious fellow.. you talk like your literally think you're the center of the conversation, you ain't, the Magnova scope is.. you just arrived.
What people wanna bring up, depending on what they value.. you don't decide.

Wrong, provably.
Let me help you out with a relevant quote:

I personally - and I accept and respect if your view is very different - think it's (... whatever)

Actually, it rather seems that you, and quite a few of your "thankers", simply don't like my way of thinking and/or talking, and/or "disturbing" the way of discussing you're used to and like.

But whatever, as you, for an exception, correctly stated, this thread is not about me but rather about the Magnova - which unlike your post, actually was the topic of my post.

So, no offense taken from an empty shell, have a nice week

Earth to Magnova fans

If there are already "fans", then it happened pretty quickly.
And "Made in Germany" is a cost factor that you have to take into account if you want to get to the bottom of the price instead of dismissing it as "far too expensive".
It's quite possible that nobody will want to pay for it later and you'll have to switch to cheaper production.
Only time will tell.
I also can't imagine that it was a bunch of fools who developed the Scope, in other words, they must have had something in mind when doing it this way and not otherwise.
So there will also be a reason why the sample rate is not soaring to breathtaking heights, but is rather at the bottom with (usually) still sufficient reserve for the maximum bandwidth.
Let's just wait until more information is available instead of talking about "fans" and far too expensive right now.

Sounds quite reasonable. I largely agree.
And yes, I admit it, my "earth to Magnova fans" sentence was but a, easily mistaken it seems, attempt to lead/invite back to reality, feet on the ground.

As user Andre77 already told us the ADC it's a TI ADC12QJ1600.

In the datasheet I've found  :

...
SNR (dB) : 57.4 (100MHz), ENOB (bit): 9.1 (100MHz)

A miracle, look mom, a miracle! (probably another failing attempt of me trying to put it in a funny way)

So ADC can do 4 x 1.6GSPS. 1GSPS can be a power dissipation limitation or a limited processing power of FPGA (Ultrascale+ MPSoC from Xilinx)

... or, my benevolent positive guess, Batronix engineers wanting to stay reasonably honest and not go below 8.5 bits ENOB ...

All in all, I like what the Magnova promise us. I like the display, the passive heat dissipation, the included FFT implementation and Bode option.
For me it's an optimal mix between SDS3000X HD and Misg MHO3.

Let't hope it's not a vaporware.

So, there seem to be some potential customers for Batronix (which pleases me).

"vaporware" seems to be too harsh a word to use, I don't think that Batronix is basically spreading lies or making empty wet-dream promises. My guess is that they still have a bit ironing to do to make the bride as beautiful as possible. Plus, I guess, they are still doing quite some testing, gathering production or at least early pre-production unit data and nailing down final public specs, etc, well, the usual.

vaporware or similar, I'm willing to bet, is not to be expected from Batronix.

[ebastler]

In those long years where you have only been reading the forum and were not registered to post yet, a lot of words have been penned up. It must be a relief to finally let them go.

[core]

@moerm
I'm sure you're a fun conversationalist in real life 

[moerm]

Friendly reminder: The topic of this thread is the new Magnova

[core]

As for the powerhorse, we know that the Rigol DHO1000/4000 uses Artix-7 XC7A100T and Rockchip RK3399, but Rigol usually wastes resources.
The Siglent SDS1000X HD uses only a Zynq UltraScale+ XCZU2CG, which is somewhat similar to the XC7A100T, but manages to offer a lot more features than the DHO. We know that Siglent uses the resources provided by the hardware very efficiently. We still have no information about the components used in the SDS3000X HD.

Magnova, which can simultaneously process 4-channel FFT spectrum analysis with up to 8 million data points each and display the results on a 1920 x 1080 pixel resolution screen, should have a significantly faster FPGA than the SDS1000.

[Sariel]

An advertisal article published on the Magnova.
Maybe more information can be squeezed from it.

https://www.elektronikpraxis.de/batronix-praesentiert-magnova-selbst-entwickeltes-oszilloskop-a-2d5ab023879cf33f27b763001ead47be/?cmp=beleg-mail&pt=662218d0bd964

[DaneLaw]

The quite common Xilinx Ultrascale+ MPSoC
https://docs.amd.com/v/u/en-US/zynq-ultrascale-plus-product-selection-guide

Any info on how it's powered and if it relies on a separate AC to DC power brick with modern powering protocols?

_From the event vid, it looks like it's AC with AC to DC in-house..
The standard IEC-power connector with a case-inserted handle in the center.

[Darkover]

Maybe more information can be squeezed from it.

They claim a very good usability with the encoder on the right side and connecting the probes on the right side.
So it is only made for right handed people? I am 101% left handed and can not imagine to use
this scope because my arm will hide the text at the encoder and the probe cable is to short when it is
connected to right side.

Olaf

[Ranayna]

Maybe more information can be squeezed from it.

They claim a very good usability with the encoder on the right side and connecting the probes on the right side.
So it is only made for right handed people? I am 101% left handed and can not imagine to use
this scope because my arm will hide the text at the encoder and the probe cable is to short when it is
connected to right side.

Olaf

Since the scope does not have any other buttons, it should not be too difficult to enable simple screen rotation. At worst the channel numbering is then upside down, but i would think you should be able to re-order them in software as well.

[Antonio90]

Maybe more information can be squeezed from it.

They claim a very good usability with the encoder on the right side and connecting the probes on the right side.
So it is only made for right handed people? I am 101% left handed and can not imagine to use
this scope because my arm will hide the text at the encoder and the probe cable is to short when it is
connected to right side.

Olaf

Since the scope does not have any other buttons, it should not be too difficult to enable simple screen rotation. At worst the channel numbering is then upside down, but i would think you should be able to re-order them in software as well.

The probes on the right side can indeed be a problem for left handed people. Right handed too, if you have to move them to the left to measure something. I'm not a fan TBH, and I don't think BNCs are on the bottom for nothing, it's actually better for usability, and what we find on Magnova, some Micsigs, and all(?) handhelds is a compromise of the form factor. (For bench use)

As for the encoder and touch, I'm not sure. I have test equipment on the left side of my bench which I often use with the left hand without problem. Pushing buttons/screens or rotating encoders is not really hard work for the offhand IMO.

Rotating the screen would mean removing and reattaching the stand. We don't know if that is supported, and I doubt it. For starters, the handle is integrated in the case and would likely block the procedure. Cooling is passive too, and convection does play a fundamental role, as opposed to forced ventilation. I don't know if putting it upside-down would affect the thermal design, though.

[Njk]

Rotating the screen would mean removing and reattaching the stand. We don't know if that is supported, and I doubt it. For starters, the handle is integrated in the case and would likely block the procedure. Cooling is passive too, and convection does play a fundamental role, as opposed to forced ventilation. I don't know if putting it upside-down would affect the thermal design, though.

So they're experimenting with unusual exterior forms, where the input connectors are located at the side of the instrument. That disposition can be handy in certain use cases. But it will not be unusual for a user to find that the side is wrong and the other side would be better, and the solution is to rotate the scope by 180 degrees. So obvious. Any provision for that?

[Ranayna]

You have good points... The integrated handle and convection cooling make rotating the scope awkward at best, and impossible at worst.
It looks a lot like a tablet scope, but it isn't one after all.

Both things would not be impossible to account for, but way too late now for the first revision.

[KungFuJosh]

Both things would not be impossible to account for, but way too late now for the first revision.

Unless they already accounted for it, but we don't know since we're all just speculating. 🤷

[joeqsmith]

Interesting idea to rotate the scope.  Personally, having the connections all on one side, left or right, I can't see causing a problem outside burning up more width on the desk.  My current scope has the USB and Ethernet ports on the side.  The cooling fans are also on both sides.  So this area isn't usable anyway. 

I normally would be working right in front of the scope.  One concern I would have is not paying attention and putting any tension on cables.   Now we have a tight 90 degree bend rather than straight. 

[Antonio90]

Mi concern was more about partialy obstructing the screen view when crossing the probes over. But maybe it isn't a problem.

[vk6zgo]

Mi concern was more about partialy obstructing the screen view when crossing the probes over. But maybe it isn't a problem.

Why not place the 'scope to the left of the DUT?
That would mean the leads wouldn't obstruct the screen.

The downside is that if you want to use your left hand to adjust the DUT, you will have to swing your head back & forth, or have a swivel chair.
A number of analog 'scopes have the coax sockets on one side, & the controls on all CROs vary, but at least on the more compact ones, area mostly on the left side, & people of both "handedness" used both styles without problems.

Most left or right handed people can quite effectively use the other hand to do things, otherwise, we would all be pretty much disabled.

[nctnico]

Yokogawa has / had a whole bunch of scopes which have the input & controls under the screen. So the casing is narrow & high.



Since the Magnova is basically a tablet with 4 encoders and 2 push-buttons, allowing to use a rotated screen (0 - 90 - 180 degrees) is only a matter of supporting this in software. From the description is sounds like there is a fan inside so use in a rotated position shouldn't pose a problem cooling wise.

[Antonio90]

They said it is passively cooled.
Rotating it 180 probably isn't a problem, 90° probably is.

In any case, the stand doesn't look reversible. Maybe with a VESA mount, if available.

[nctnico]

They said it is passively cooled.
Rotating it 180 probably isn't a problem, 90° probably is.

No. From the description: Therefore a fan is unnecessary in normal operation and the Magnova can run silently. This clearly says the Magnova oscilloscope does have a fan. Just that is may not be on all the time depending on use & environment temperature.

[Martin72]

That's right, that's what it says.
But what would be abnormal operation...

[KungFuJosh]

More implies than clearly says, but I wonder how much more speculating we'll do before they drop some more info on us. 😉

[Martin72]

Yes, there could be more to come.

[DaneLaw]

Magnova

New development. New paths.
Rethought. New concept

Silent operation. Enjoy the silence. The passive cooling concept ensures that you no longer have to be disturbed by fan noise. With the Magnova, the largest heat sources (processor, FPGA, RAM) are thermally connected directly to the metal case. This means that most of the heat is dissipated directly outside the case. Therefore a fan is unnecessary in normal operation and the Magnova can run silently.

I do get the impression it's a passive cooling concept, but the wording " unnecessary in normal operation" do make you wonder, as what is normal versus non-normal usecases with an oscilloscope.

[KungFuJosh]

non-normal usecases with an oscilloscope.

Watching youtube probably counts. 🤷

[core]

I wonder why they announced this oscilloscope, but after almost a month there was no news.
Maybe they just wanted to see how interested users would be. But this method might backfire on them, as it creates unrealistic expectations. Does that "Damn Good Software" exist?
It seems that nowadays rushing might become a habit.

On the other hand, Rigol came out with the new series all of a sudden, in a total surprise. What we know for sure with them is that we are subsequently left with what we originally got. Very little chance of major improvements in firmware.