Magnova oscilloscope

[LoneWolf6912]

Or "The Signal Path" for in-depth analysis, including software implementation.

Unlikely to happen I guess.

I liked to watch his videos. A lot. But since quite a few months I'm under the impression that his videos mostly are about stuff light years beyond a hobbyists reach, 20 Ghz and higher. In fact, he himself seems to have noticed that he is losing the mere mortal audience and made a weird video about why he does the kind of videos he does now.
I respect the man for his profound knowledge and have learned a lot from him (well, from watching his videos) and am grateful for that, but sorry Shariar, nowadays I do not even look at TSP from time to time anymore.

So, for what little weight my vote carries, it clearly goes to Dave. While I have some (mild) reservations re. Dave's reviews (Siglent = rust, Agilent hurray, and his enthusiasm about the (back then) new Tek 2 toy (to put it politely)  scope, reminded me that, oh well, humans are humans and not really unbiased and objective) a Dave review *is* worth watching and would be very welcome, especially if combined with a teardown.

Dave is in Australia, not sure at this point of Batronix can send the Magnova oversea.

Maybe there's a reflexion to have for proposing a review by Great Scott or Marco Reps (if we want more in deep review)

[KungFuJosh]

So, for what little weight my vote carries, it clearly goes to Dave. While I have some (mild) reservations re. Dave's reviews (Siglent = rust, Agilent hurray, and his enthusiasm about the (back then) new Tek 2 toy (to put it politely)  scope, reminded me that, oh well, humans are humans and not really unbiased and objective) a Dave review *is* worth watching and would be very welcome, especially if combined with a teardown.

Dave could do a fine review of it if he was contractually obligated to RTFM and spec sheet. Its operation does not appear standard, and Dave's videos are typically run without any reading, and hopes that things are at least somewhat standard.

[Martin72]

A review of this scope requires a somewhat more in-depth examination.
At first glance, it appears to be like many others, but I am sure that this is not the case and this needs to be addressed.
Besides, I can't imagine that Batronix would like it if the thing were to be unscrewed.

[core]

Maybe even Andre77 will get the permission to put some photos here.

It would be very interesting to see the internal solution for the placement of the heat dissipation components.

But it's possible that the final solution is still being worked on.
The external part of the heatsink looks quite small from what I saw. Or maybe the whole back panel is actually a heatsink.

[ebastler]

Maybe even Andre77 will get the permission to put some photos here.

Andre77 might struggle to find someone who can give him permission to publish...
He's André Bauer, the "Ba" in "Batronix", I think.

[2N3055]

It's a bit cheeky to ask someone who just spent lots of time to engineer something nicely to reverse engineer it for you.... My opinion.

[core]

Seeing a few photos of the interior is not reverse engineering. I think you're going too far.
I want to buy it, not make it.

[2N3055]

Seeing a few photos of the interior is not reverse engineering. I think you're going too far.
I want to buy it, not make it.

What does it mean to you? What would it serve?
I'm not saying you have "bad intentions". But what is the purpose of that?
And no matter that your intentions personally are not "bad", public release releases it to everybody, even those they don't want to.

Did you ask manufacturer to open engine of your car and show you inside before you bought it?
Or TV? Or washing machine?
Or anything really?

[ebastler]

Well, users here are interested in electronics engineering, and an oscilloscope is not only a tool for that, but also an interesting piece of engineering in itself. So I can understand the interest to get a glimpse "under the hood".

I would also be curious to get a better idea on how Batronix implemented the passive cooling, for example: Can they actually get rid of 50W or so without excessive temperatures on the enclosure? Or have they managed to reduce power consumption significantly? (Edit: The data sheet specifies between 38W typical without hardware options, 65W peak with function generator and logic analyser.)

Actual competitors in the market will be able to buy a Magnova scope real soon now, and I would expect some of them to do their own reverse-engineering to understand the design and its cost structure. So I don't see any real damage in publishing some photos here -- if Batronix want to do that, of course, it's obviously their choice.

[core]

Seeing a few photos of the interior is not reverse engineering. I think you're going too far.
I want to buy it, not make it.

What does it mean to you? What would it serve?
I'm not saying you have "bad intentions". But what is the purpose of that?
And no matter that your intentions personally are not "bad", public release releases it to everybody, even those they don't want to.

Did you ask manufacturer to open engine of your car and show you inside before you bought it?
Or TV? Or washing machine?
Or anything really?

Yes, before I buy I always look inside the car, including under the hood and under the car. I'm naturally curious.
Also without a test drive I don't buy.

And this topic is about Magnova, and it's not a commercial topic, but a technical one.
You may be right, but not all of us buy without knowing what.

[Andre77]

The frequency setting accuracy of the waveform generator is 1 µHz.

Unfortunately that says as good as nothing about the accuracy of a waveform generator.  It is a setting resolution specification, not accuracy.

Yes, maybe I was a bit too hasty with my answer. You are right, the 1 µHz is the setting resolution.

The built-in reference clock is specified with an accuracy of +-2 ppm (+-3 ppm after one year of aging). If you use an external reference, the accuracy will of course depend on the external reference.

Regarding the DDS resolution: The Magnova generator currently works with 62 bit DDS resolution. The 400 MSa/s generator sample rate divided by 2^62 allows values far below µHz. In addition, the maximum internal phase value is matched to the output sample rate (400 MSa/s vs 375 MSa/s) to achieve best frequency precision.

It would be very interesting to see the internal solution for the placement of the heat dissipation components.
The external part of the heatsink looks quite small from what I saw. Or maybe the whole back panel is actually a heatsink.

Yes, the entire metal housing serves as a heat sink. The additional external heat sink is located at the hottest point, with the FPGA/processor/RAM underneath.

Sorry, but it's difficult to show this in a photo, the built-up doesn't allow a clear view of the relevant area. The components are thermally bonded directly to the rear panel. I could take photos of a completely disassembled prototype, but that wouldn't provide much more information on the question.

[joeqsmith]

I would also like to see how it is constructed.  Just seeing the easy access to the coin battery was helpful.   

How thick is the plastic?  Will it crack in a few years?  Are there areas that are thinner than others?  After there molded in bosses with sharp edges that will cause them to break off? Do the bosses use self tapping screws or utilize metal inserts?  Any other sharp edges in the plastics that my crack?   Are the knobs press fit and prone to falling off?   Glued together making it non-serviceable?  Quality of solder?  Assuming the BNCs are a high stress area.  How did they reinforce that area?

What does it mean to you? What would it serve?
I'm not saying you have "bad intentions". But what is the purpose of that?
And no matter that your intentions personally are not "bad", public release releases it to everybody, even those they don't want to.

Did you ask manufacturer to open engine of your car and show you inside before you bought it?
Or TV? Or washing machine?
Or anything really?

[pdenisowski]

I would also like to see how it is constructed.  Just seeing the easy access to the coin battery was helpful.   

How thick is the plastic?  Will it crack in a few years?  Are there areas that are thinner than others?  After there molded in bosses with sharp edges that will cause them to break off? Do the bosses use self tapping screws or utilize metal inserts?  Any other sharp edges in the plastics that my crack?   Are the knobs press fit and prone to falling off?   Glued together making it non-serviceable?  Quality of solder?  Assuming the BNCs are a high stress area.  How did they reinforce that area?

Sounds like a classic Dave teardown video to me

[joeqsmith]

Sounds like a classic Dave teardown video to me

I don't want to throw it off a bridge or against a wall.  Nor drive over it with a car. 

While they claim 61326, I would like to toss it into the chamber and see for myself what the conducted and radiated emissions look like.  Of course, see what the radiated susceptibility is like. 


I would also like to see someone try and pull some data off it live with some custom software.   Same for the Siglents. 

[Andre77]

How thick is the plastic?  Will it crack in a few years?  Are there areas that are thinner than others?  After there molded in bosses with sharp edges that will cause them to break off? Do the bosses use self tapping screws or utilize metal inserts?  Any other sharp edges in the plastics that my crack?   Are the knobs press fit and prone to falling off?   Glued together making it non-serviceable?  Quality of solder?  Assuming the BNCs are a high stress area.  How did they reinforce that area?

- The housing is made of 2 mm aluminium. There are additional aluminium struts and heat conducting plates in the housing. The only "plastic part" of the housing is the handle on the back.
- Nothing was glued. Press-in threads and press-in threaded bolts were used in the aluminium housing.
- The rotary encoder knobs use metal collets, not press-fit sockets.
- The BNC sockets are THT hand-soldered with extra large pads.

And there are some other reasons for 5 years warranty... 

Okay, you persuaded me. I disassembled a prototype and took a rear panel photo of the inside.

[KungFuJosh]

The only "plastic part" of the housing is the handle on the back.

You might want to rethink that. Everybody got really excited for the aluminum handles on the Siglent 2000 and 3000 HD series scopes. 😉

[Andre77]

I don't want to throw it off a bridge or against a wall.  Nor drive over it with a car. 

Oh, that wouldn't be the first time one of our devices has been run over by a car... A Batronix BX48 once made it onto the front page of a magazine with that "stunt". 

I don't recommend imitating that. Especially not with a measuring device.

[Martin72]

 

Andre,
I'm beginning to understand the price, that's a very massive effort you're making there.
For "current" reasons, the first thing I would be interested in is the FFT performance.

[joeqsmith]

Thank you for providing these details and photos showing the construction.  My plastic scopes have not held up well against the test of time.  Good to see a quality case design.   

If you noticed that aluminum foil in my last photo, I wonder with your scope being all aluminum and possibly better sealed (for RF), how susceptible it is?  Curious what levels it was tested at and what you used for a pass/fail criteria.   

At home, I play a bit with circuits that can create some wide band noise and it is common for my plastic scopes to have problems with it. 

****
Just as an example, at 19:50. 

- The housing is made of 2 mm aluminium. There are additional aluminium struts and heat conducting plates in the housing. The only "plastic part" of the housing is the handle on the back.
- Nothing was glued. Press-in threads and press-in threaded bolts were used in the aluminium housing.
- The rotary encoder knobs use metal collets, not press-fit sockets.
- The BNC sockets are THT hand-soldered with extra large pads.

And there are some other reasons for 5 years warranty... 

Okay, you persuaded me. I disassembled a prototype and took a rear panel photo of the inside.

[egonotto]

Hello,

I have the impression that the Micsig MHO 3 also has a metallic housing.

Best regards
egonotto

[Martin72]

At least it looks like brushed aluminium

[joeqsmith]

Hello,

I have the impression that the Micsig MHO 3 also has a metallic housing.

Best regards
egonotto

At a glance, looks like a good fit.  I couldn't find anything about the Ethernet port speed.  Also could not find a decent review on it.  Just the basic unboxing. 

[egonotto]

Hello,

I have the impression that the Micsig MHO 3 also has a metallic housing.

Best regards
egonotto

At a glance, looks like a good fit.  I couldn't find anything about the Ethernet port speed.  Also could not find a decent review on it.  Just the basic unboxing.

Hello,

in the thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-micsig-scope-with-knobs-(again)/?all
from
Reply #45 on: March 09, 2024, 01:05:06 pm
I have written a lot about my MHO3. The Ethernet port speed is 1000 Mb/s and I have achieved over 100 MB/s with FTP. If you have more questions about the MHO3 it would be better if we continue this in this thread so as not to disturb the Magnova thread too much.

Best regards
egonotto

[core]

Magnova seems to be very well thought out, mechanically. Made to last.
Can't wait to see what it can do about FFT and Bode Plot. It promises a lot in those regards.

Unfortunately other manufacturers make these options conditional on the purchase of very high bandwidth devices with sampling rates of at least 4-5GS/s.

I don't need a bandwidth wider than 200HMz, and 1-2GS/s is sufficient for what I'm interested in.

I know, Siglent may be OK, but they are a bit more conservative in terms of screen resolution and screen size. I already have some equipment from them and it works very well.

So it's possible that Magnova will fulfill most of the desires I would have for an (new) oscilloscope.

[skander36]

Hello,

I have the impression that the Micsig MHO 3 also has a metallic housing.

Best regards
egonotto

You can take a look and let us know.