new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hi Everyone,

Quick update - a new firmware release for the RTB2000, RTM3000 and RTA4000 will be out shortly. 

RTB2000 FW V2.4
New Functions

• Math Functions Track: period, frequency, pulse width and duty cycle unipolar
• Track Setups in App menu
• Second cursor on different source
• Up to 6 measurement places (previously 4)
• New measure type 'Delay to Trigger’
• Option RTB-B6: Symmetry function for waveform type Triangle

Modifications

• Increasing of FFT waveform update rate up to factor ten with low start frequencies and activated 'Automatic RBW'
• Removed extra treatment of ADC clipping values in waveform arithmetic average (Clipping values are now processed as normal ADC values and not emphasized in waveform)
• Option RTB-B6: Minimum difference between start and stop sweep frequency limited to 3Hz.

RTM3000/RTA4000 FW V1.7
New Functions

• Option RTM-B6: SCPI command for generator burst function

Modifications

• Increasing of FFT waveform update rate up to factor ten with low start frequencies and activated 'Automatic RBW'.
• Removed extra treatment of ADC clipping values in waveform arithmetic average (Clipping values are now processed as normal ADC values and not emphasized in waveform)
  

-Rich

[skander36]

Awesome!
Seem to be a consistent update!
Thanks for the news!

[RBBVNL9]

Certainly looks like a worthwhile update! Even small thinks like 6 measurements up from 4 are very handy on a day by day basis… Looking forward to test this out!

[goaty]

Great to hear there´s still some improvement given to users (for free).
I only wish there was a performance update for the trigger rate.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg1405398/#msg1405398)

[Hydron]

I look forward to trying this one, seems like a bunch of useful improvements, and the RTA4004 we got at work will be nice to have the FFT speed increase on too.

[Domitronic]

Modifications

• Increasing of FFT waveform update rate up to factor ten with low start frequencies and activated 'Automatic RBW'
• Removed extra treatment of ADC clipping values in waveform arithmetic average (Clipping values are now processed as normal ADC values and not emphasized in waveform)
• Option RTB-B6: Minimum difference between start and stop sweep frequency limited to 3Hz.

The FFT update rate is interesting. I bought the RTB2004 earlier this year and returned it. One of the reasons was the unusable FFT for low frequency. Feedback from R&S at that time was that it really is not very fast and this will not change in the future. And that i should not have high expectations in this class. Recommendation was to use RTE instead if FFT performance matters. Now i'm using Siglent.

[RBBVNL9]

I came across an oddity in the digital voltmeter (DMM) in the RTB. Was investigating a trace showing a power rail with a ripple / oscillation problem and thought to use the DMM to show the DC value of the rail, by selecting DC mode in the DMM. But it didn’t show the DC value.

Then I realized the channel I was using was AC coupled. And that the channel AC coupling is probably in the analogue domain, before the ADC. (For good reasons; this way one can use the sensitive range to study ripple etc.). And that the DMM uses the digital signal coming out of the ADC, as confirmed in Section 8.4.

So I find it confusing that the DMM allows the user to select DC measurements even if is not able to do so because the selected channel is AC coupled. I’d suggest a (small) firmware change that would disable (grey out) the DC mode of the DMM if the channel is AC coupled.

(PS just did a quick test and this is exactly what my Keysight DSOX120G does: grey out the DMM DC options when the selected channel is AC coupled. If the DMM is already at DC and the user afterwards changes the channel coupling from DC to AC, then the DMM is automatically changed to AC mode.) 

(Even beter would be a DMM that would be able to measure DC in such a case, but I suspect this would require significant* hardware changes.. )

[bayjelly]

One of the reasons was the unusable FFT for low frequency.

I had that, too, even made the detailed analysis above of how it seems the FFT was implemented in software and why that's not ideal in this case. But it wasn't enough to spoil the scope for me, and now I'm glad I kept it...

[MikeP]

Modifications

• Increasing of FFT waveform update rate up to factor ten with low start frequencies...
  

Friends, we'll get a great gift.

 I want to thank the R&S Team and Rich  .  Many thanks![/list]

[RBBVNL9]

I noted that the new FW is now available from the R&S website.

Installation went very smooth, taking considerably less than a minute I think. The attached screenshot shows one of the changes, namely the 6 measurement positions (up from 4).

Happy to see new, significant firmware updates being made available, thanks!

[Robaroni]

Thanks Rich and R&S!

[goaty]

Update worked fast and flawless. (RTB2004-COM4)

[bayjelly]

I didn't get to try it out yet, does anyone know what the scope is doing for low frequencies in FFT now?

Last time I posited that the reason it was so slow, is that the scope is always filling 128k points for FFT, even if the actual window size is much, much smaller. And of course filling 128k points is very slow for low frequencies (think e.g. 48kHz sampling in an audio example: ~2.6 seconds).

Does it now only fill the window? (At the expense of not being able to move the window around after capture, which is totally the better tradeoff in this case.)

[Joel_l]

Same for me RTB2004-COM4, no issues, no options disappeared.

Update worked fast and flawless. (RTB2004-COM4)

[tv84]

I tried to update the firmware via the network connection using the SCPI commands ':DIAG:UPD:...'. Thereby I came across a peculiarity. With the command ':DIAG:UPD:TRAN:DATA offset,checksum,blockdata', the CRC-16-CCITT checksum is calculated in a wrong variant.

There is a description here:
http://srecord.sourceforge.net/crc16-ccitt.html

It only works with the 'Bad_CRC' variant.

Peter,

That is not totally correct.

What they use is the common "CRC-16/IBM-3740", also widely known as "CRC-16/CCITT-FALSE". See here.

I find the "CRC-16/AUG-CCITT", that you were expecting, more rare than the previous one. As such, I wouldn't call the other the "Bad_CRC" variant.

Even the author of your article ends up with no full certainty of what is truly the correct CCITT way.

[goaty]

I tried the FFT for 0 to 100khz and it seems pretty fast with auto RBW. But I don't use that usually, so not an expert.

[skander36]

Well done R&S !
Also math functions for tracking waveform parameters.
Thank you!

[bayjelly]

This is the first time I've actually looked at the "Demos" (since the release notes mentioned them for the tracking math functions).

They're actually pretty neat demos using the built in pattern or function generators. The tracking math functions are fun, you essentially have a little amplitude/phase/frequency demodulator. 😄

[RBBVNL9]

Dear all,

I wanted to observe some delays between pulses on different channels using the "Delay" measurement of the RTB2004.

According to the user manual (p128), there is a "Delay Setup" submenu with quite a few parameters, plus a "display results" switch (first photo).
However, on my own device, I only get to see the slope parameters, nothing more (second photo).
(Same thing for the "Delay to Trigger" measurement added in FW2.40, also there I see fewer options than the user manual shows).

Am I overlooking something? Perhaps someone can see what he/she sees in this menu?

Thanks!

[Jeroen3]

Measure -> Type: Delay does have the setup button.
Your screenshots are also not in the manual anymore it seems, you only have the edge buttons. Can't find anything else.

FW: 2.3

[RBBVNL9]

Thanks Jeroen3. You are right, it depends on the FW version. The additional settings seem to have disappeared with the new 2.40 firmware 

• In the manual for the FW 2.30 version, the extended functions are described, and visible on screenshots. (I updated my scope so I cannot check this on the instrument anymore.)
• In the manual for the FW 2.40 version, the extended functions are no longer described and no longer visible for the screenshots. And they are no longer visible on the instrument.

Too bad, one usually expects new FW may add functionality, but not remove.

[RBBVNL9]

PreDre, thanks for checking.

I noted more discrepancies between documentation and instrument in this measurement section. For instance, the manual for V2.300 discusses the "delay to trigger" measurement, but the "Release Notes Firmware Version 02.400" mention that this specific measurement was only added with FR2.400.

I wonder if there is just some sloppiness across the different documents/software for the RTB2000, or whether the manual accidentally talked of features only present in the RTM3000 (where the latest manual does list these additional delay settings) or the RTA4000, which seem to run rather similar software. 

(This happened before. For instance, my NGE103B manual talks of a touch screen and mouse control, in a text that is clearly accidentally copied from other more expensive power suppliers R&S makes.)

[Hydron]

Yes, AC coupling capacitor comes first. This is not the universal way of doing it, but neither is it an unusual design - good to see it's highlighted in the manual.

[KaneTW]

Oh, huh, good to know. Thankfully the abs max on the channel inputs is 400V peak; was worried for a second there.

[Hydron]

It's also worth noting that this rule only applies to some probes, i.e. those with only a series resistor, not ones with a full internal divider present.

Basically if the probe impedance (in megohms) is equal to the attenuation ratio then it can pass on the full DC voltage when the scope is in AC mode, e.g. most 10X probes have a 9M input resistor, which gives a 10M input impedance when used in series with the scope's 1M input.

if the input impedance is less than this value (e.g. 100M for the 1000x attenuation P6015: https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/P6015) then it will have an internal divider resistor and AC coupling will unlikely be an issue.