NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope

[Fungus]

I happen to show that here:

This Tek uses double-tap gestures to do things in the UI? 

What kind of idiot would do that...? 

[Domitronic]

This Tek uses double-tap gestures to do things in the UI? 

What kind of idiot would do that...? 

Have you ever tried the new Tek UI? In my opinion its good. On the Series 4 at work i tend to use touch display. On my Siglent at home i find myself still more using the knobs and buttons than touch UI. So at least for me Tek has done something right.

[Fungus]

Have you ever tried the new Tek UI? In my opinion its good. On the Series 4 at work i tend to use touch display. On my Siglent at home i find myself still more using the knobs and buttons than touch UI. So at least for me Tek has done something right.

Maybe so but it's still a complete dog's dinner.

Take the dialog that pops up when you double-tap the screen:


It's a complete mess of dropdowns mixed with multi-choice buttons for no good reason and there's lots of little things wrong with it:
a) "Waveform Style" and "Graticule Style" - one line of text, "Waveform Intensity" and "Graticule Intensity" - two lines. Why?
b) Why is the "Waveform Intensity" box wider than the "Graticule Intensity" box?
c) Why are the Graticule settings in a dialog called "Waveform View"? Maybe the dialog could be called "Display settings"? You did double-tap the "display" to get to it.
d) Why are some things in drop-downs and others not? Dropdowns need a tap top open the menu, then you have to look at it and find the entry, then another tap to select it.
e) What on earth is the point of a numerical box with a percentage in it? What happens when you tap it?
f) When you tap the persistence time it only highlights the text (as if it's expecting a keyboard to be attached??). You have to double-tap it to get the on-screen keyboard. How many people would have a physical keyboard, why can't it open the on-screen keyboard directly?
g) Does that pointless mouse cursor follow you around all the time or is it only there when a mouse is connected?

About that on-screen keyboard for entering a time:

(excuse the crudity of the Windows Paint job)

Here's the same display settings on a Micsig. They're not hidden behind a double-tap, you can find them under the "Display" menu:







You touch the name of the thing you want to adjust and the settings appear below. No dropdowns so selections are a single touch instead of two. Brightness settings are done via a slider.

It has a logical flow to it and the user interface elements they used are faster to use and match the types of values being entered.

[rsjsouza]

An UI with absolute consistency is not an easy achievement (several open source applications still struggle with that)... But it is quite similar to its big brothers MDO3 and up. In this case, it is most probably a case of retaining the Tek feel of prior generations, despite the strange mix of typing/tapping/double-tapping and so on.

About that on-screen keyboard for entering a time:

(excuse the crudity of the Windows Paint job)

The on-screen is very similar to the physical keyboards of VNAs and Spectrum Analyzers - they were probably going for the familiar design. But I agree the backspace placement is quite weird.

Here's the same display settings on a Micsig.

I found the Micsig has quite a logical and functional UI from the video you posted before.

[nctnico]

The onscreen keyboard is standard on most devices. What you don't want is a flurry of different keyboard layouts. BTW Fungus' proposed layout is missing the min & max buttons. These come in handy regulary!

[Someone]

It doesn't have zone triggers... scopes much less expensive come with it... And that is useful feature I use all the time..

Well it does have mask testing, which is around "half" the functionality of "zone" triggering:
https://www.tek.com/en/video/how-to/2-series-mso---mask-testing

Beauty of zone triggers is that it is easy and fast to use. Most of the time you can just set one of advanced and conditional triggers and get same result. But zone trigger is by definition one standard trigger + a conditional fly/no fly zone that you simply drag on the screen..

Mask testing is something else, and is more connected with that glitch hunting discussion we have elswhere..

Did you watch the video? The demo is adding a no-go zone to an existing trigger by drawing a box on the screen. Exactly what you said, if zone trigger requires both go and no-go zones is a matter of definition which is why I didn't say it was exactly the same as "zone" triggers from other implementations.

[EEVblog]

I happen to show that here:

This Tek uses double-tap gestures to do things in the UI? 

Yep, like a text box to enter a number.
And no velocity control on the knobs for number entry either.

[David Hess]

I think you should put the Combiscope into the digital mode and do an actual head-to-head comparison of their glitch capturing capabilities. 

Like other DSOs of that generation, like the Tektronix 2232 and 2440, the FlukeCombiscope will perform poorly in a glitch capture test.  Peak detection will pick up the glitch at any sample rate with no problem, but the waveform acquisition rate is only 10s per second so there is considerable blind time.  I do not think Tektronix rectified this in their DSOs until releasing their TDS 744A/784A DPOs with "InstaVu" in 1995.  Previous to this they relied on their MCP analog oscilloscopes for applications requiring glitch detection.

[Fungus]

This Tek uses double-tap gestures to do things in the UI? 

Yep, like a text box to enter a number.

I'd love to know what the percentage inputs for brightness do when you touch them. Does it pop up some sort of a slider or does it make you double-tap then type in a number?

Does it do anything at all apart from highlight the number so you can twist a knob?

What you don't want is a flurry of different keyboard layouts.

Why not? So long as they're consistent with each other. At least grey out the buttons that make no sense.

I just watched Dave's video again and I saw that the Tek input box defaults to "ms". If you want to type in 10s you have to type "10" then press a button marked "None" to remove the 'ms' part. 

Watch it here, along with Dave's mental process as he uses it:

https://youtu.be/3jDRH-6IvZc?t=463



(skip to time 7:40 - I can't seem to get youtube to go there automatically)

PS: What happens if you type a negative time or a stupidly large time?

BTW Fungus' proposed layout is missing the min & max buttons. These come in handy regulary!

It was just a quick mockup. 

FWIW here's what Micsigs do - they add a line of numbers underneath the setting with a range of values from 100ms to 10s that you swipe left/right (with inertia-flick) to select one, or... you can twist the knob to step through the values:

Note that you get instant visual feedback as the values change. The real sin of the Tek keypad interface is that you have to type a number then press enter to see any changes on screen. What if you type "5s" as an initial guess then discover you need a bit more? I really hope it does something sensible if you just highlight the box then twist the knob, although forcing you to constantly switch between screen/knob is another can of UI worms.



It's not perfect (I would have made it a few pixels taller for fat fingers and I can't set it to "5.73 seconds" if I really want to) but it's a lot faster than double-tapping an input box then being forced to type in a number when what you usually want is just, "A bit more/less of that, please!".

(would you ever type "5.73 seconds" anyway?)

[2N3055]

It doesn't have zone triggers... scopes much less expensive come with it... And that is useful feature I use all the time..

Well it does have mask testing, which is around "half" the functionality of "zone" triggering:
https://www.tek.com/en/video/how-to/2-series-mso---mask-testing

Beauty of zone triggers is that it is easy and fast to use. Most of the time you can just set one of advanced and conditional triggers and get same result. But zone trigger is by definition one standard trigger + a conditional fly/no fly zone that you simply drag on the screen..

Mask testing is something else, and is more connected with that glitch hunting discussion we have elswhere..

Did you watch the video? The demo is adding a no-go zone to an existing trigger by drawing a box on the screen. Exactly what you said, if zone trigger requires both go and no-go zones is a matter of definition which is why I didn't say it was exactly the same as "zone" triggers from other implementations.

I was confused about what video you are talking about.. Yes the Tek video, no I didn't so I went and did..
And I agree that making simple rectangular mask is quite easy to make and I understand now what you meant.

For glitch capture on repetitive signal, mask is better than persistence, because it will at least give you some statistical info, and on many scopes it can save the capture in question....

But largest difference is that is NOT a trigger. With zone trigger you can use segments and history and all other measurements functions. And is very easy to use and feels very natural....

[Someone]

It doesn't have zone triggers... scopes much less expensive come with it... And that is useful feature I use all the time..

Well it does have mask testing, which is around "half" the functionality of "zone" triggering:
https://www.tek.com/en/video/how-to/2-series-mso---mask-testing

Beauty of zone triggers is that it is easy and fast to use. Most of the time you can just set one of advanced and conditional triggers and get same result. But zone trigger is by definition one standard trigger + a conditional fly/no fly zone that you simply drag on the screen..

Mask testing is something else, and is more connected with that glitch hunting discussion we have elswhere..

Did you watch the video? The demo is adding a no-go zone to an existing trigger by drawing a box on the screen. Exactly what you said, if zone trigger requires both go and no-go zones is a matter of definition which is why I didn't say it was exactly the same as "zone" triggers from other implementations.

I was confused about what video you are talking about.. Yes the Tek video, no I didn't so I went and did..
And I agree that making simple rectangular mask is quite easy to make and I understand now what you meant.

For glitch capture on repetitive signal, mask is better than persistence, because it will at least give you some statistical info, and on many scopes it can save the capture in question....

But largest difference is that is NOT a trigger. With zone trigger you can use segments and history and all other measurements functions. And is very easy to use and feels very natural....

It is a second stage trigger, that can stop the auqisition or record out the matching instances. Its not a segmented or high speed complex trigger, but still makes that initial step from stable waveform to picking out arbitrary shaped details.

[DaneLaw]

Do like the looks of it and the grey-black background design suits it well.
big 10.1" also nice but TFT.. hmm..but at +4 pounds.. one-handed use certainly gonna be a challenge without something locking your hand-wrist.
the Micsig STO-C is just under 4 pounds also,  and that unit you can use it one-handed, but you need to rely on that PU-leather strap for your left hand to hold it somewhat comfortably while interfacing with the right.
But I do like these tablet scopes, that have struck a balance between mobility (so you can easily take it to a device and not vice versa), and a scope that can also double as a bench scope without driving you nuts.

The secondary specs.. are somewhat limited at the prices they are asking when comparing to alternatives, but it is a TEK, so that's more or less the norm.
but gladly they kept knobs.. seems Micsig has dropped that on the latest 2022 STO-tablet revisions for some small 4way joysticks... don't like that.. I need those knobs, even though the user per say' don't really need it, - on an interface like the Micsig, where you can use, a wireless mouse, or touch, or even apps for iOS, Android or Windows... I still kept coming back to using those knobs.

Are the screen bright, so you can use it outdoors.. on the Micsig.. it peaked at 415nits if I measured a blank paper in the browser with a lightmeter..

[David Hess]

Are the screen bright, so you can use it outdoors.. on the Micsig.. it peaked at 415nits if I measured a blank paper in the browser with a lightmeter..

The glare would stop me from using it outdoors, and likely stop me from using it indoors as well.

[DaneLaw]

Are the screen bright, so you can use it outdoors.. on the Micsig.. it peaked at 415nits if I measured a blank paper in the browser with a lightmeter..

The glare would stop me from using it outdoors, and likely stop me from using it indoors as well.

Or one can take a Depp-nap and don't do anything, if you are bothered by "glare", otherwise get a glare-undermining screen protector.
more often than not, they are included from scratch, at least with the Micsig (if I recall correctly) but it hasn't been a problem when I've been using it outdoors, so saw no need to try it out.
- and you can blow it up indoors to your heart's desire with its HDMI.
Here on a big  OLED-monitor with LG's quite potent antiglare coating.(and those waveforms do look good on an inky black OLED background)

or connect it with its wireless app to an android projector out in the bathroom/toilet and watch the waveform-bouncing on the bathroom-wall while laying a dump.
(its all good      )


..

A heavy fellow with its battery pack (MSO22)
Weight
Instrument only
1.8 kg (4 lbs)
Instrument with battery pack
3.2 kg (7 lbs) – one battery
3.6 kg (8 lbs) – two batteries
---
Color palettes
Normal and inverted for screen captures
Individual waveform colors are user-selectable

color intensity grading??

gets expensive fast and seems to be upgrade depended.. entry model MSO24 (4ch 70mhz) from Farnell Denmark.
70MHz 3.5k USD / 100Mhz = 4.1K USD / 200MHz 5k USD / 500MHz 13.5K USD.

[KE5FX]

500 MHz, $13.5K, and no 50-ohm input selection?

[Someone]

color intensity grading??

Doesn't seem to be present, which is pretty unique for a 3[000] segment scope (don't think people were too surprised that the TBS2000 didn't have it).

[jjoonathan]

500 MHz, $13.5K, and no 50-ohm input selection?

But... but... $12 relays! If you multiply it by 100, it's a tenth of the cost! Can the treasury bear such an expense?

[Fungus]

Are the screen bright, so you can use it outdoors.. on the Micsig.. it peaked at 415nits if I measured a blank paper in the browser with a lightmeter..

The glare would stop me from using it outdoors, and likely stop me from using it indoors as well.

They come with a matte screen protector in the box. It works.

[snoopy]

I just watched this video from TSP and I think this scope has a lot of potential. I like the way it can run from a PC and quite well might I add. For someone who is used to using a mouse this is quite an advantage rather than fiddling around with buttons and knobs. If you are just focused on update rate and nothing else then it would be easy to dismiss this instrument and find fault with it but as a whole package there is a lot of potential once they get the firmware stable. And like Dave said you can still capture rare events with suitable trigger and persistence. Depending on price it maybe worth looking at.

[Fungus]

For someone who is used to using a mouse this is quite an advantage rather than fiddling around with buttons and knobs.

Lots of oscilloscopes can use a mouse and/or do remote access these days. No need to pay Tek prices for that.

[Fungus]

I just watched this video from TSP and I think this scope has a lot of potential.

Looks like it has an awful lot of features once you start digging.

[2N3055]

I just watched this video from TSP and I think this scope has a lot of potential.

Looks like it has an awful lot of features once you start digging.

What do you mean by that? What lot of features, what does it have that even DS1000Z or Siglent SDS1104E-X doesn't?
Rigol MSO5000 has many more features than it and also SDS2000X+ ..

All of them for fraction of price.

[rsjsouza]

Looks like it has an awful lot of features once you start digging.

What do you mean by that? What lot of features, what does it have that even DS1000Z or Siglent SDS1104E-X doesn't?
Rigol MSO5000 has many more features than it and also SDS2000X+ ..

All of them for fraction of price.

Do the Rigol and Siglent have the advanced triggering shown by Shahriar? I don't recall about this feature being present in the entry level models...

The other two more advanced have mor features.

[Fungus]

What do you mean by that? What lot of features, what does it have that even DS1000Z or Siglent SDS1104E-X doesn't?
Rigol MSO5000 has many more features than it and also SDS2000X+ ..

All of them for fraction of price.

Do the Rigol and Siglent have the advanced triggering shown by Shahriar? I don't recall about this feature being present in the entry level models...

Can they save a sceenshot when a trigger condition is met then continue capturing afterwards?

[rsjsouza]

What do you mean by that? What lot of features, what does it have that even DS1000Z or Siglent SDS1104E-X doesn't?
Rigol MSO5000 has many more features than it and also SDS2000X+ ..

All of them for fraction of price.

Do the Rigol and Siglent have the advanced triggering shown by Shahriar? I don't recall about this feature being present in the entry level models...

Can they save a sceenshot when a trigger condition is met then continue capturing afterwards?

It should be easy for the Tek, since the blind time is alread so massive anyways... 😝