Author Topic: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope  (Read 1603670 times)

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Offline JPortici

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2325 on: June 21, 2016, 10:15:04 pm »
many more. you are not counting the tens of pages of related (or unrelated) threads
 

Offline wraper

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2326 on: June 21, 2016, 10:20:40 pm »
the endless debate :palm:

Quote
*I hacked my scope but would rather trade hacked frequency and decoding for absence of bugs
yep.

unfortunately GWi is out of the question for us europeans as their prices are nearly double than what tequipment asks (at least, from TME and farnell. i didn't find gwi on other distributors)
At TME there is promotion tight now. Not on 1054B, but other 1000B and 2000E scopes are sold much cheaper, for example GDS-1074B and GDS-2072E are sold cheaper than 1054B. If you search much enough, probably someone sells discounted 1054B too. Also getting it from Tequipment and paying the import taxes is not so bad either.
Here is a poll:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054zds1000z-poll-are-hacked-options-actually-useful-for-you/
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2327 on: June 21, 2016, 10:29:11 pm »
what is the leading competitor to the DS1054Z?
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2328 on: June 21, 2016, 10:32:40 pm »
Ya, your Instek is awesome. But we got a Rigol, read the topic.
On the previous page was brought a point that DS1054Z has no competitors at all at this price, therefore all of the crap they do must be forgiven. Obviously it's not true, and hopefully Rigol will be brought back on the right track by punishing their wallet.

Except that only two people on an obscure forum even care.  Everybody else is price driven and quite satisfied with the scope.  Sure, it would be nice if it were perfect but since it is software based, it never will be.

And, yes, you can get a scope that's twice as good for 3 times the money.  So what?
You can get better scope at a bit lower price from a more reputable manufacturer but without possibility of hacking options, so what? Is hacked Rigol twice as good at the same price?  Are there so much value in those hacked options?

Of course the additional bandwidth and memory depth are worthwhile.  I'm not sold on the decoding but it's pretty cool that it's free!  So, if there is another scope at 50 MHz BW with no possibility of free upgrades and costs roughly the same, it's not going to win in the market.

Are you saying that Rigol isn't reputable?  Or that, somehow, brand X, as a company, is more reputable?  Seriously?  Rigol  is selling a lot of hardware if the membership around here is any gauge.  Obviously, I have no idea how many scopes any manufacturer sells but I doubt if Rigol is going to drive in a ditch any time soon.

Brand X at the same price, half the bandwidth, no decoding and <I don't know about memory depth>, of course the Rigol is going to win.  It isn't even a question.

 

Offline rstofer

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Offline rstofer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2330 on: June 21, 2016, 10:44:17 pm »
what is the leading competitor to the DS1054Z?

Instek, Siglent, Hantek etc.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2331 on: June 21, 2016, 10:45:33 pm »
Of course the additional bandwidth and memory depth are worthwhile.  I'm not sold on the decoding but it's pretty cool that it's free!  So, if there is another scope at 50 MHz BW with no possibility of free upgrades and costs roughly the same, it's not going to win in the market.

To be fair, it has a much better FFT. If FFT is your thing then it might be worth it.

There might be a tiny market for people who need better FFT and people who can't bear having a single bug.

Plus: The Rigol bug list is really quite short. Rigol might release a new firmware tomorrow that totally destroys the "less bugs" argument. Don't forget they already improved the FFT once with a firmware upgrade, they could easily do it again.

Poor build quality and noisy front end? Not so easy to fix via a firmware upload.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 10:53:42 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2332 on: June 21, 2016, 11:08:29 pm »

Here is a poll:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054zds1000z-poll-are-hacked-options-actually-useful-for-you/

That poll displays a rather interesting attitude!
Rigol Germany made me suffer a lot in the past. Like none of other any equipment manufacturer (any, including consumer), nobody even comes close. Psychological trauma, you know  :-DD.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2333 on: June 22, 2016, 03:51:40 pm »
Rigol Germany made me suffer a lot in the past. Like none of other any equipment manufacturer (any, including consumer), nobody even comes close. Psychological trauma, you know  :-DD.
Aha! Now we've found the real heart of your issue with Rigol!  :o  :P  :-DD

Seriously though, the quality of support when things go wrong is rather important IME. And unfortunately, not everyone's experiences are good; particularly between support centers in different countries (even with tier 1 brands).
 

Offline wraper

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2334 on: June 22, 2016, 06:48:36 pm »
particularly between support centers in different countries
Probably it would be better if there was no support at all, would save me some brain cells.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 09:42:30 pm by wraper »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2335 on: June 23, 2016, 03:16:07 am »
Rigol Germany made me suffer a lot in the past. Like none of other any equipment manufacturer (any, including consumer), nobody even comes close. Psychological trauma, you know  :-DD.

Well, that sucks. I've heard the quality of Rigol support does vary greatly by region. Hope you recover! :-BROKE
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Offline rstofer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2336 on: June 23, 2016, 02:04:55 pm »
At $400 per scope, Customer Support isn't really necessary.  It isn't even worth the hassle to box it up and drive it over to the UPS Store.  Just chuck the thing and buy something else.

If you think having a scope is worth a buck a day, at the end of the year, you're just about even.  Everything beyond that is just gravy.

Even better, you would perhaps be chucking the Rigol and given the opportunity to try out the Instek.  Think how many people will applaud that opportunity!
 

Offline wraper

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2337 on: June 23, 2016, 02:32:09 pm »
At $400 per scope, Customer Support isn't really necessary.  It isn't even worth the hassle to box it up and drive it over to the UPS Store.  Just chuck the thing and buy something else.
That wasn't $400 scope but $1000 (EU price) DM3068 multimeter, maybe 20% cheaper than Agilent 34401A at that time.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2338 on: June 23, 2016, 02:33:05 pm »
At $400 per scope, Customer Support isn't really necessary.  It isn't even worth the hassle to box it up and drive it over to the UPS Store.  Just chuck the thing and buy something else.

If you think having a scope is worth a buck a day, at the end of the year, you're just about even.  Everything beyond that is just gravy.

Even better, you would perhaps be chucking the Rigol and given the opportunity to try out the Instek.  Think how many people will applaud that opportunity!


What, the people have no bread? Let them eat cake !!


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline thomastheo

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2339 on: June 23, 2016, 10:07:33 pm »
Hey,

I'm just about to pull the trigger on buying a ds1054z from batronix (although conrad is another option, i'm not sure which to choose, and any advice on this is welcome). I'm concerned that the reports on SP2 suggest a degree of sluggishness in the UI, and given that it seems to be impossible to roll back to SP1 I would like to ask just how serious of an issue this is for you existing users.

I am selling my beloved and coddled tektronix 475 scope with dm44 (and near unused crt) in order to finance this purchase, and really want to make sure i'm not locking myself in to a world of frustration.

Thanks for the feedback!

Th.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2340 on: June 23, 2016, 10:28:33 pm »
Hey,

I'm just about to pull the trigger on buying a ds1054z from batronix (although conrad is another option, i'm not sure which to choose, and any advice on this is welcome). I'm concerned that the reports on SP2 suggest a degree of sluggishness in the UI, and given that it seems to be impossible to roll back to SP1 I would like to ask just how serious of an issue this is for you existing users.

I am selling my beloved and coddled tektronix 475 scope with dm44 (and near unused crt) in order to finance this purchase, and really want to make sure i'm not locking myself in to a world of frustration.

Thanks for the feedback!

Th.
What exactly will you be using it for?  :-//

Meaning will you be using the advanced settings and all four channels simultaneously? Or just a couple of channels and few, if any of the advanced features most of the time?
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2341 on: June 23, 2016, 10:39:31 pm »
Most of the people on this forum bought the Rigol because they use the "extra" features and bandwidth that they unlocked and either don't run into, work around, or ignore the existing bugs. In other words, the features offset the bugs. I rarely run into the bugs, so they don't get in my way. YMMV

If you don't have a need for the "extras" and/or you often need to use the functionality on the Rigol that have issues, then you might consider, for example, the GW Instek 1054B. I especially like that it has separate controls for each of the four channels.

So, it really depends what you need/will use it for.
I TEA.
 

Offline thomastheo

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2342 on: June 23, 2016, 10:47:37 pm »
Hey,

I'm just about to pull the trigger on buying a ds1054z from batronix (although conrad is another option, i'm not sure which to choose, and any advice on this is welcome). I'm concerned that the reports on SP2 suggest a degree of sluggishness in the UI, and given that it seems to be impossible to roll back to SP1 I would like to ask just how serious of an issue this is for you existing users.

I am selling my beloved and coddled tektronix 475 scope with dm44 (and near unused crt) in order to finance this purchase, and really want to make sure i'm not locking myself in to a world of frustration.

Thanks for the feedback!

Th.
What exactly will you be using it for?  :-//

Meaning will you be using the advanced settings and all four channels simultaneously? Or just a couple of channels and few, if any of the advanced features most of the time?

That is the 400 euro question indeed :)

I love my tek475, but doing the number crunching manually is starting to get old, and the built in math functions of the rigol are a major selling point for me, besides the storage of course, which is the most significant reason above all. Besides that, for microntroller peripheral stuff the serial decoding is a big plus. Is it the case that the sluggishness is limited if you engage the math functions on only a channel or two? I'm just trying to get a sense of perspective on the matter. Is it a major setback, or just a minor quibble?  that sort of thing...
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2343 on: June 23, 2016, 11:19:39 pm »
That is the 400 euro question indeed :)

I love my tek475, but doing the number crunching manually is starting to get old, and the built in math functions of the rigol are a major selling point for me, besides the storage of course, which is the most significant reason above all. Besides that, for microntroller peripheral stuff the serial decoding is a big plus. Is it the case that the sluggishness is limited if you engage the math functions on only a channel or two? I'm just trying to get a sense of perspective on the matter. Is it a major setback, or just a minor quibble?  that sort of thing...
Just turn off a couple of channels (i.e. 2 & 4 or 1 & 3) if you need to run the math trace. If this isn't possible, you'll just have to wait for it to do the computations. And if you're just after common measurements, you don't have to run the math trace for those.

So I see it as a minor quibble/annoyance. Finally, keep in mind this can be fixed, assuming Rigol is still interested in working on it (or at least enable a roll-back scheme).

YMMV however, so sit down and think carefully about what you need out of it. And as mentioned, most of the bugs have work-arounds, although not necessarily convenient.

Personally, I find it an acceptable trade-off, but I do have a TEK 2445B on a shelf should I need it (even does measurements).
 

Offline metrologist

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2344 on: June 23, 2016, 11:22:01 pm »
The bugs are fairly obvious, so I will not explain them. But to quantify the sluggishness, I roughly estimate the responsiveness to UI input is 25% normal when everything is turned on (4 channels with math). That is, to get a trace position to move, I have to twiddle the knob about 4 times as much to get the same response as when just one channel is on. I don't think there is much a lag with just one channel, but I never had the luxury of using the scope when it was "fast" Now get ready for Cunningham's Law to take effect
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2345 on: June 23, 2016, 11:33:20 pm »
Most of the people on this forum bought the Rigol because they use the "extra" features and bandwidth that they unlocked and either don't run into, work around, or ignore the existing bugs. In other words, the features offset the bugs. I rarely run into the bugs, so they don't get in my way. YMMV

If you don't have a need for the "extras" and/or you often need to use the functionality on the Rigol that have issues, then you might consider, for example, the GW Instek 1054B. I especially like that it has separate controls for each of the four channels.

So, it really depends what you need/will use it for.

But by the time you get up to 100 MHz AND 4 channels (without decoding), you move up to the GDS-1104B and it's $733 at TEquipment - nearly twice the cost of the DS1054Z.  And you still don't have decoding...
 

Offline PushUp

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2346 on: June 24, 2016, 12:14:50 am »
Hello,

having read a lot in this forum, but obviously not everything, I have a question to my new 1054z, which I got yesterday.

I was surprised when I saw that I still have board version 0.1.1, but the newest FW 00.04.03.02.03. Regarding to the "used look" of the display, I am quiet sure, that I got a kind of "refurbished" one in just a new packiging.

Is there any reason to stick to this first board version or do the newer ones have a significant advantage? Of course I haven't touched the activation of the additional options yet. On page 38/39 someone mentioned that his board version changed during this activation process from 0.2.2 to 0.1.1, which could underline my assumption, that the dealer sold me something old, I am not willing to pay for, when he just did a reset in order to sell it to the next twit...

Any hint or opinion is appreciated, maybe someone experienced the same issue...? Thank you very much!

Cheers!
Due to the massive "EEVblog forum attachement bug", I am now using an external picture hoster, till it is solved...
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2347 on: June 24, 2016, 12:19:13 am »
But by the time you get up to 100 MHz AND 4 channels (without decoding), you move up to the GDS-1104B and it's $733 at TEquipment - nearly twice the cost of the DS1054Z.  And you still don't have decoding...

Yep, it all depends what you need, what you're willing to live with and pay for. Everyone much choose for themselves.
I TEA.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2348 on: June 24, 2016, 12:21:46 am »
having read a lot in this forum, but obviously not everything, I have a question to my new 1054z, which I got yesterday.

I was surprised when I saw that I still have board version 0.1.1, but the newest FW 00.04.03.02.03. Regarding to the "used look" of the display, I am quiet sure, that I got a kind of "refurbished" one in just a new packiging.

Welcome to the forum! If you purchased a new device and got a "refurbished" one, take it back for a new one or a refund.
I TEA.
 
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Offline ProBang2

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2349 on: June 24, 2016, 12:37:14 am »
[...]
 I have a question to my new 1054z, which I got yesterday.
I was surprised when I saw that I still have board version 0.1.1, but the newest FW 00.04.03.02.03. [...]
[...]
On page 38/39 someone mentioned that his board version changed during this activation process from 0.2.2 to 0.1.1
[...]

It is nothing wrong with "board version 0.1.1". Look:
(The boot version changed from 0.0.1.3 to 0.0.1.4.)



If you have doubts about the scope: Send it back!
Otherwise you will never be happy with it...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 12:39:03 am by ProBang2 »
 
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