New scope from FNIRSI: DPOF1204

[BillyO]

I bought a DHO804 myself and upgraded it — both via software and by replacing the inductors — up to 400 MHz. It’s a really excellent instrument.

Buttttt.... It's only a 1.25GS/s scope.  How could extending it's BW to 400MHz be a good thing?  3.1 samples per WF!?

[infino]

In practice, though, you often only need to confirm the presence of a signal rather than analyze its exact shape, and for that, the oscilloscope does its job perfectly well.

This topic has already been debated to death. If you’d like to dig into it further, it’s better to jump into the Rigol discussion thread and ask there — I’ll reply and can share measurement screenshots.

[BillyO]

No need.  I get it.

[ballsystemlord]

It might not be a joke, but its ADC is 8-bit. So this device is closer to the Rigol DS1054.
It will be hard for them to compete with Rigol and Siglent. I bought a DHO804 myself and upgraded it — both via software and by replacing the inductors — up to 400 MHz. It’s a really excellent instrument.
Before and after the modification: sweep 30–400 MHz.

Please, don't let the twitter/x character limit affect your posting habits here. Tell us more...

[infino]

Please, don't let the twitter/x character limit affect your posting habits here. Tell us more...

English is not my native language, so I may have misunderstood your point. Could you please clarify what exactly you would like to know?

[BillyO]

Please, don't let the twitter/x character limit affect your posting habits here. Tell us more...

English is not my native language, so I may have misunderstood your point. Could you please clarify what exactly you would like to know?

He want's to know specifically what you did to get the extra bandwidth.

[infino]

We change the inductances to 12 nH and obtain a bandwidth of 450–480 MHz at the −2 dB level. SMD; 0402; 12 nH; 1240 mA; R: 0.093 Ω; ±2%; LQW; 180 mm.
To modify two channels, it is sufficient to replace 4 components; the other two channels can be left unchanged.

[tunk]

The manual is now up on their manuals/firmware page:
https://www.fnirsi.com/pages/manuals-firmwares

[Atlan]

But we just have to wait for actual use to find out how many lies there are in the manual.

[BillyO]

That's a rather thin manual.  No specs!  WTF?

[Grandchuck]

Sigh.  I assume what we have here is yet another rushed to market offering.

[adam4521]

The manual is indeed comically brief. But the spec sheet is available at the top of the thread.

I don't think it is possible for Fnirsi to have engineered this. Even if it doesn't fully work, it needs to half work. They are sort of aiming for previous generation (8 bit) Siglent SDS1204X-E. It's very very hard to build an oscilloscope with this feature set, from where Fnirsi were before.

I'm wondering whether there is a market in design services where Fnirsi just buy the design from an external engineering team that hires out to these vendors. Owon pulled off a similar trick closely following Rigols design, with their new 12 bit range. Uni-T seem to have done the same. They can't all have this expertise in house. And this might ultimately explain why support is not available afterwards from these vendors. They are shifting boxes, but the design team are long gone and have moved on to the next contracted product.

[BillyO]

I would not call that a spec sheet.  More like a truncated Feature list.

This is a spec sheet: https://siglentna.com/download/42432/?tmstv=1775412153

[BillyO]

I'm wondering whether there is a market in design services where Fnirsi just buy the design from an external engineering team that hires out to these vendors. Owon pulled off a similar trick closely following Rigols design, with their new 12 bit range. Uni-T seem to have done the same. They can't all have this expertise in house. And this might ultimately explain why support is not available afterwards from these vendors. They are shifting boxes, but the design team are long gone and have moved on to the next contracted product.

100%  AFAIK FNIRSI do not design anything.  It's all outsourced.

[tunk]

I'm wondering whether there is a market in design services where Fnirsi just buy the design from an external engineering team that hires out to these vendors.

From another thread (link below), there are posts from yangyao which suggests it's the case:
"I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope." (post #1)
"I am the developer of DPOS350P and DPOX180H." (post #1)
"The $800 is not my selling price, but my dealer's selling price." (post #31)
"DPOX180H does have some problems. Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales are too terrible." (post #33)
"I designed 1014D and 1013D 6 years ago." (post #77)
"No, I didn't make 2C53P, but I have used it and there are too many software bugs." (post #82)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hello-everyone-i-am-going-to-make-a-very-low-priced-1ghz-oscilloscope/

[adam4521]

"I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope." (post #1)
"I am the developer of DPOS350P and DPOX180H." (post #1)

I think the point I'm making is that this appears to be prevalent in a new generation of products and beyond what a lone engineer, even a really talented one, could pull off on their own. They have gone from edge triggered basic waveform display to full trigger capability, protocol decode, waveform maths, measurements, FFT, SCPI, web control etc, the full feature set. Not something you just add on in your spare time.

And I forgot to mention Hantek. Check out their new 12 bit HRDO2000 series -- 1.1 million waveform updates/sec, and 2GPts record length, low noise. We look at it and wonder, does it it boot up, are they actually building these? How did they suddenly learn how to do that?
https://www.hantek.com/m/productdetail/18228

[Sorama]

"I am going to make a very low-priced 1GHz oscilloscope." (post #1)
"I am the developer of DPOS350P and DPOX180H." (post #1)

I think the point I'm making is that this appears to be prevalent in a new generation of products and beyond what a lone engineer, even a really talented one, could pull off on their own. They have gone from edge triggered basic waveform display to full trigger capability, protocol decode, waveform maths, measurements, FFT, SCPI, web control etc, the full feature set. Not something you just add on in your spare time.

And I forgot to mention Hantek. Check out their new 12 bit HRDO2000 series -- 1.1 million waveform updates/sec, and 2GPts record length, low noise. We look at it and wonder, does it it boot up, are they actually building these? How did they suddenly learn how to do that?
https://www.hantek.com/m/productdetail/18228

Those new Hanteks are not particularly cheap…

[Aldo22]

And I forgot to mention Hantek. Check out their new 12 bit HRDO2000 series -- 1.1 million waveform updates/sec, and 2GPts record length, low noise. We look at it and wonder, does it it boot up, are they actually building these? How did they suddenly learn how to do that?
https://www.hantek.com/m/productdetail/18228

I do think they’re capable of building it. Hantek isn’t exactly a tiny startup.
But, as Sorama says, this thing is expensive, and I can’t find any reviews of it at all.
The question is whether they’ve ever actually sold one.

[Grandchuck]

The Hantek user manual is 241 pages.

[ststefanov13]

Fnirsi's arrogance knows no bounds, only a total boycott will put them in the place they rightfully deserve.

[Dr. Blast]

I think, this depends. I have some good experience with the Fnirsi support. They provided me with the firmware files I requested etc. Of course the support will have much work to do with all the idiots errr customers out there complaining. I have quite a few products from them and I like the looks and the devices a lot. They are not perfect, but I have few to complain. They are robust (hardware-wise) , stylish and they are cheap.

So, Fnirsi 

[KungFuJosh]

I think, this depends. I have some good experience with the Fnirsi support. They provided me with the firmware files I requested etc. Of course the support will have much work to do with all the idiots errr customers out there complaining. I have quite a few products from them and I like the looks and the devices a lot. They are not perfect, but I have few to complain. They are robust (hardware-wise) , stylish and they are cheap.

So, Fnirsi 

 

[Dr. Blast]

I think, this depends. I have some good experience with the Fnirsi support. They provided me with the firmware files I requested etc. Of course the support will have much work to do with all the idiots errr customers out there complaining. I have quite a few products from them and I like the looks and the devices a lot. They are not perfect, but I have few to complain. They are robust (hardware-wise) , stylish and they are cheap.

So, Fnirsi 

 

Not everyone sees the things through your eyes:



But I reckon you can pull off something better than they do. At any given time, right?

[EXPY73]

Still no independent reviews of the FNIRSI DPOF1204?

Fnirsi is flooding the web with 1 minute +/- video promotions of this scope, mostly BS hype, few or no details.

[Aldo22]

Still no independent reviews of the FNIRSI DPOF1204?

Fnirsi is flooding the web with 1 minute +/- video promotions of this scope, mostly BS hype, few or no details.

This market is highly competitive.
German retailers are throwing a 4-channel, 2 x 1.25 GSa/s, 50 Mpts, 12-bit, 70 MHz, HDMI... scope at you for half the price (€179.10 including tax and shipping).
They probably won’t make much profit on it.
https://www.voelkner.de/products/11864782/VOLTCRAFT-DOV704-Digital-Oszilloskop-70MHz-4-Kanal-1.25-GSa-s-50-Mpts-12-Bit-Digital-Speicher-DSO-1St..html

Of the Fnirsi videos, this one is perhaps the most informative so far: