Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown

[ptluis]

An application for ftp-transfer would also be handy.

I use my micsig's Wifi FTP server all the time for copying screenshots to my PC. I hope there's a neat/simple way to make WiFi work on these new Rigols.

what's the micsig model you own? I haven't decided yet between this Rigol dho800 or the micsig sto1004c i need portability mostly.  i don't think the price difference between sato vs sto justifies the first vs features

There isn't a STO1004C model as per se.
-there is STO1004 (4x 4way joystick + 19 buttons) current entryline, likely that model, you'r wondering about.
-there is STO1104C (7x rotary knobs + 23 buttons) previous line. (STO1000 & 2000 C/E line)

The DHO800/900 would also work great as a mobile scope, as you can suit it up with more or less any power bank delivering its protocol and piggyback ride that  on the back..
I guess the Rigol DHO800 & 900 series is using 15v PD charge protocol?
Just as I do with the Micsig, just with 12v power delivery tr-cable. (PD) even though it obviously got built-in battery
If you wanna use the scope outside screen brightness is also a factor to include.
Micsig 8" screen seems to top at a tad over 410nits with just a small blank white slide to check peak. (its screen is TFT LCD) I am not sure how bright the DHO 7" series are or what LCD panel tech its using..(TFT or IPS?)

Hi DaneLaw, my mistake, I mean STO1004 the new model with joysticks, and a must is using a wireless mouse with it, It should work right?  The Rigol is interesting and I'm waiting for some real tests. I think the USB-C port on Rigol doesn't negotiate the voltage, it's fixed 15V or I'm I wrong? that could be a problem with many of the powerbanks available or on the other side could be an advantage if i build my own powerpack with 18650 or 21700 cells.

[Veteran68]

The initial prototype/preview scopes shipped with a fixed 12V USB-C charger, but production units are shipping with proper 12V PD chargers from Lenovo or Lite-On. USB-C battery packs have already been demonstrated to work just fine.

[mwb1100]

I think the USB-C port on Rigol doesn't negotiate the voltage, it's fixed 15V or I'm I wrong? that could be a problem with many of the powerbanks available or on the other side could be an advantage if i build my own powerpack with 18650 or 21700 cells.

It negotiates.  It worked with a crappy fixed 12V 4A power supply that was shipped with early units in China, but now ships with a decent Lenovo 65W power supply that does proper PD negotiation:

  - Re: Rigol DHO 0800 USB-C observations

[RAPo]

My fingers and brain only tolerate a RPN (or RPL) calculator;-)
I have several HP's lying around, but I'm using the phone (and so with a touch screen) with an emulator app more and more.

=I always got a casio calculator near my bench. Calculator with touch screen isn't a good idea.
It's do be shameful for lacking WIFI supporting. But I got some thumb drive for waveform storage or screenshots. So it's not a big deal to me.

[RAPo]

what's the micsig model you own? I haven't decided yet between this Rigol dho800 or the micsig sto1004c i need portability mostly.  i don't think the price difference between sato vs sto justifies the first vs features

A STO1004 with the joysticks.

[DaneLaw]

That's a shame if it's 12v PD as it seems like it could be a standard that is getting less support... I thought I heard mention of 15v in one of Dave's videos, but can't find it and the unboxing video does show a 12v brick.
The problem with 12v PD is that some of the higher-powered modern power banks, that can deliver fx +35-40watt for these DHOs, would be power banks intended for ultrabooks/laptops, Windows tablets etc and here 12V PD seems to be a standard they are ditching.
Fx Anker. I got a few of their latest power banks... like the 140watt-pr-USB-C-socket, and they got the full power delivery up to PD3.1 with full backward support PD 3.0, 2.0, 1.0 and they drop support for 12v PD..
(*these higher wattage standard like PD3.1 do need special high wattage cables with a corresponding marker chip that negotiate for that standard) though you can always override it, with a PD decoy trigger like below).

I use 12V PD for my Micsig scope, as we have a lot of PD power supplies & power banks in our household, and was surprised to see that I can't use the latest power banks from "Anker" as 12V PD/power delivery is gone.. PD protocol jumps from 9v to 15v, 20v.. PD 15v is quite common as that is what Microsoft uses in their surface line.

A PD protocol dump of 3 different power banks with power delivery support 2.0 to 3.1. ranging from 65w, 95w to 140watt pr TypeC socket but its the latest models from "Anker" which I was surprised to see they have dropped support for PD 12v (Anker model 737-24k) the other two power banks is quite a few years old, and do have power deliver/PD 12v support.
140w, 65w & 95w (text sharper on imgur hosting site)

[Neutrion]

Just a few questions:
Did I understand right that the waveform update rate was down to 1000/sec with only one channel enabled at 50 ns/s with full mem depth ? And the screen actually even showed a lower than 1M mem depth?   And it went up only when Dave lowered the mem. depth?
How is the update rate with two channels enabled?
Because the 1104x-e has many times of that with full mem depth and two channels enabled in the same group.

Also interesting weteher it is possible to have a zoom in view on the vertical scale without changing the vertical scale, so getting the getting the full height of the signal?
 

[ebastler]

That's a shame if it's 12v PD as it seems like it could be a standard that is getting less support... I thought I heard mention of 15v in one of Dave's videos, but can't find it and the unboxing video does show a 12v brick.

It runs fine with the fixed 12V supply they shipped with the first samples, but it negotiates 15V when connected to a power supply which supports PD negotiation. See e.g. this post.

[DaneLaw]

That's a shame if it's 12v PD as it seems like it could be a standard that is getting less support... I thought I heard mention of 15v in one of Dave's videos, but can't find it and the unboxing video does show a 12v brick.

It runs fine with the fixed 12V supply they shipped with the first samples, but it negotiates 15V when connected to a power supply which supports PD negotiation. See e.g. this post.

I see, so it will both take a crude/fixed 12v input OG-style, and if senses power delivery, it will negotiate for 15v/3A PD std.(maybe also why they ditch PD 12v if that standard is being out-phased)
Haven't seen that before, usually it's one or the other.

[exe]

I just got a chance to touch HDO924S. To me the screen is too tiny. I also don't like how they used screen real estate. I had a feeling that "there must be a button to make waveforms fullscreen". As of touchscreen experience, it was a bit awkward and controls were too small at times. Also I think it didn't always register my fingers reliably, or my fingers are too big for it. Like, I had to press help button in bottom left corner like four times before it worked. Something like HDO4000 with bigger screen is better for me , but it's way too expensive. Using physical controls instead of touchscreen felt a bit like step back after micsig. It didn't feel like touch control is a native thing for it.

The AWG has amplitude of only +-5V. Kinda enough for most of the cases, but +-10V would be better for my needs.

Of course, there are good things about the rigol, I just don't want to repeat). Overall, I did't get hyped while using it. So, I'll stay for now with my old scope. May be in future I'll loan one to test it better. At the end, micsig also has its quirks, nothing is perfect.

[tautech]

I just got a chance to touch HDO924S. To me the screen is too tiny. I also don't like how they used screen real estate. I had a feeling that "there must be a button to make waveforms fullscreen". As of touchscreen experience, it was a bit awkward and controls were too small at times. Also I think it didn't always register my fingers reliably, or my fingers are too big for it.

IMO ~10" is the lower limit for a touch display DSO for both touch usability and the ability to have menus up without hiding the working part of the screen.
Yet if this is managed well the menus only stay up for a user defined period and can be hidden by a touch on a vacant area of the display.
To have further display management is also an advantage, that is do these side menus cover or compress the working part of the display and is this behaviour user definable.

[ebastler]

IMO ~10" is the lower limit for a touch display DSO for both touch usability and the ability to have menus up without hiding the working part of the screen.
Yet if this is managed well the menus only stay up for a user defined period and can be hidden by a touch on a vacant area of the display.
To have further display management is also an advantage, that is do these side menus cover or compress the working part of the display and is this behaviour user definable.

May we assume that all these attributes happen to be present in Siglent scopes? 

[tautech]

IMO ~10" is the lower limit for a touch display DSO for both touch usability and the ability to have menus up without hiding the working part of the screen.
Yet if this is managed well the menus only stay up for a user defined period and can be hidden by a touch on a vacant area of the display.
To have further display management is also an advantage, that is do these side menus cover or compress the working part of the display and is this behaviour user definable.

May we assume that all these attributes happen to be present in Siglent scopes? 

Not all, the touch display models, certainly.
Now get some time in front of one to see how these features really work.

[ebastler]

May we assume that all these attributes happen to be present in Siglent scopes? 

Not all, the touch display models, certainly.
Now get some time in front of one to see how these features really work.

I might. Too bad that the 10" scopes (both from Siglent and Rigol) are so much more expensive than the DHO800 and 900 series. 

It seems clear enough that a 7" touch screen is pushing usability limits. Simply porting the software from the 10"-and-larger family members is probably not quite good enough. Rigol will have to add some functionality to optimize screen space, by hiding control elements either automatically or under user control.

Nevertheless, I would find it refreshing to read the occasional post from you which is not pure sales talk for Siglent. From a knowledgeable salesman, no doubt; but you always carefully choose your arguments from the list of pro-Siglent talking points. If you could voice a more balanced view occasionally, it would add weight to your opinion.

On the other hand -- the fiercer I see you arguing pro-Siglent, the more I know that you are nervous about Rigol's offering. So they must have something going for them...

[tautech]

Facts are facts, entirely up to you how much you value them.

Or you could start a thread on displays and how various brands manage display usage/management.

[ebastler]

Facts are facts

But selectively presented facts are sales talk.

[TimFox]

I just got a chance to touch HDO924S. To me the screen is too tiny. I also don't like how they used screen real estate. I had a feeling that "there must be a button to make waveforms fullscreen". As of touchscreen experience, it was a bit awkward and controls were too small at times. Also I think it didn't always register my fingers reliably, or my fingers are too big for it.

IMO ~10" is the lower limit for a touch display DSO for both touch usability and the ability to have menus up without hiding the working part of the screen.
Yet if this is managed well the menus only stay up for a user defined period and can be hidden by a touch on a vacant area of the display.
To have further display management is also an advantage, that is do these side menus cover or compress the working part of the display and is this behaviour user definable.

Has anyone tried one of the styli sold for those of us with fat thumbs to use on touch-screen inputs on displays of this size?

[2N3055]

May we assume that all these attributes happen to be present in Siglent scopes? 

Not all, the touch display models, certainly.
Now get some time in front of one to see how these features really work.

I might. Too bad that the 10" scopes (both from Siglent and Rigol) are so much more expensive than the DHO800 and 900 series. 

It seems clear enough that a 7" touch screen is pushing usability limits. Simply porting the software from the 10"-and-larger family members is probably not quite good enough. Rigol will have to add some functionality to optimize screen space, by hiding control elements either automatically or under user control.

Nevertheless, I would find it refreshing to read the occasional post from you which is not pure sales talk for Siglent. From a knowledgeable salesman, no doubt; but you always carefully choose your arguments from the list of pro-Siglent talking points. If you could voice a more balanced view occasionally, it would add weight to your opinion.

On the other hand -- the fiercer I see you arguing pro-Siglent, the more I know that you are nervous about Rigol's offering. So they must have something going for them...

Can I chime in non Siglenty comment...

I have 8.5" Keysight 3000T.  They implemented usable touch screen on it but it is not "Androidy" and is a little on the old school side. Buttons to press are large and I have no problems using it. OTOH it also still has physical buttons around the screen and plenty knobs that I also use. For instance I use only knob for cursors... Touch is too clumsy..

OTOH i have 12,1" screen scope and 10.2" scope (brands are irrelevant) and naturally 12" one is nicer.
I'm sure 15.6" would be even better.

If 7" screen on Rigols is good to use will depend highly how well it was implemented. And they might even be able to optimize it later..

My preference would be 10" and up, but money talks and I'm sure I would survive with 7" if I had to... Like we did for so many years with stuff primitive in comparison to even cheapest stuff from Rigol or Siglent today...

[dreamcat4]

I might. Too bad that the 10" scopes (both from Siglent and Rigol) are so much more expensive than the DHO800 and 900 series. 

It seems clear enough that a 7" touch screen is pushing usability limits...

ok this might sound like a bit silly question. But lets say (for argument's sake) you had an 804 and a 1074 in front of you. Would the larger 10" display module and touch usb connection interface be capable of getting pluged into the lower end 804? Or is it that fundamentally the screen is not compatible with the other one? (i mean electrically speaking).

[tautech]

Facts are facts

But selectively presented facts are sales talk.

However the community thanks you for those you presented after a short while using the new Rigol DSO.
Yes they are not all the same and convenient/complete/functional usability is important to many of us as your short report indicates.
All brands do similar things differently so we need find which best suits our individual needs.

[ebastler]

ok this might sound like a bit silly question. But lets say (for argument's sake) you had an 804 and a 1074 in front of you. Would the larger 10" display module and touch usb connection interface be capable of getting pluged into the lower end 804? Or is it that fundamentally the screen is not compatible with the other one? (i mean electrically speaking).

I don't know whether they are exactly compatible. But I certainly think the DHO800 main board would in principle be capable of driving a suitable 10" display.

Do I think it's a promising project for a hobbyist to upgrade their own 800 mode to a larger screen? That certainly wouldn't be for me; too much of a "Frankenstein" hack...

Do I expect Rigol to come out with a 10" version of the 800 series? Not too soon. They certainly could, technically, and the larger display would only make it a tad more expensive. But I think they want to deliberately maintain the different positioning and pricing ot the 7" vs. 10" scopes: 7" is for the very price-conscious (hobby etc.) market; 10" and up is for "serious" users, and is where Rigol makes nice margins.

[Martin72]

They certainly could, technically, and the larger display would only make it a tad more expensive.

I see it the same way.
I already found that so glaring with the 1000/4000 scopes.
The 1000 is actually only missing the second ADC and the extended input panel.
Otherwise, the same components are used.
Only that the price difference is just about a factor of 3, I would feel pretty fooled as a DHO 4000 buyer.

[Malmen]

Will the DHO800 run on a plain 12V source like a cig socket in the car?

[thm_w]

Will the DHO800 run on a plain 12V source like a cig socket in the car?

Yes but for your own safety its better to not make a cig adapter -> USB C cable that outputs 12V without negotiation.
As mentioned previously in this thread you can blow up devices. Not to mention possible voltage spikes.
A suitable USBC PD car adapter that is safe to use can be had for <$30.

[Fungus]

IMO ~10" is the lower limit for a touch display DSO for both touch usability and the ability to have menus up without hiding the working part of the screen.

These little Rigols can have an external screen as big as you want. :-)