Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[mawyatt]

Bode Frequency Offset works at 10MHz offset as well

Best,

[slugrustle]

I just noticed that the :PRINT command from the SCPI command set does not work anymore. I used that for a small script which captures a screen, for command line use. Yes, I know that thsi is possible with the web interface as well.

I would like to make a similar script... Is this fixed again, or is it still broken?

[slugrustle]

I just noticed that the :PRINT command from the SCPI command set does not work anymore. I used that for a small script which captures a screen, for command line use. Yes, I know that thsi is possible with the web interface as well.

Oh, hey, I think I figured it out. The following commands send back large streams of data in the R&S Visa test tool:

:PRIN? BMP
:PRIN? PNG
:PRINt? BMP
:PRINt? PNG
PRIN? BMP
PRIN? PNG
PRINt? BMP
PRINt? PNG

but you need the question mark, otherwise the response times out.  The latest EN11D programming guide on Siglent's website has the question mark in the command description, so the documentation is up to date.  I was going off of the old EN11A version programming guide that I downloaded when I first got the scope.

SDS2504X+. Utility menu software version says 1.5.2R3. 

[Mahagam]

Today I discovered the possibility to set the pulse width from an internal AWG with a sub-nanosecond resolution.
Here I set pulse widht to 446.0 / 446.1 / 446.2 ns.
Who can explain, how its works?

[Warhawk]

probably similarly to the high-resolution PWM found in some microcontrollers (e.g. c2000). Edge positioning is the keyword.
Simply said, you rely on the slew rate and adjust the threshold for logic level change. This gives you additional bits of resolution. It is not perfect, but monotonous and works reasonably well.

[2N3055]

Today I discovered the possibility to set the pulse width from an internal AWG with a sub-nanosecond resolution.
Here I set pulse widht to 446.0 / 446.1 / 446.2 ns.
Who can explain, how its works?

Look up NCO.
You can have very high resolution.

[gf]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem
The key is that the generated signal must be properly bandwidth limited. Then it can well have a period duration or pulse width with a higher resolution than the AWG's sampling period.

[Mahagam]

signal must be properly bandwidth limited.

And it is. Rise/fall time is >25ns.

[MathWizard]

I really don't know why you find basic I2C decoding difficult. 

New SDS2104X Plus.....didn't even set edge to falling and only added 2ms trigger Holdoff.
Select Decode and check it is set to I2C then assign channels and then adjust Thresholds.
It took longer to boot than make these decode settings....

So what am I doing wrong here in this picture? I'm trying to hack a DVD player's VFD display, and I'm looking at the I2C pins off the EEPROM, between the main IC, and the VFD MCU.

The Green trace is the SCL line, and blue is data. I didn't see any decoding happening, so I copied most of your settings, I'm on 10bit mode but I think I have the same trigger settings. It let's me choose which CH is SCL or SDA. I've tried serial triggering, and didn't get that to do much either. I've tired rising and falling edge triggers.

In 2 pic's I was triggering off SDA to get a better pic of SDA.

In the Utility settings, it still says I have 30 free uses of I2C left. So what am I missing here ? I've had I2C work on my sds1204X-E, I can try that too, I've had that work before.

But this is the 2nd time I tried I2C on the SDS2204Xplus, and not seem to get any thing. Do I have some other setting wrong or not activated ? All clues to me say that these really are the I2C pins, and not SPI, etc. I only have parts of the DVD player, so IDK what the IC is really sending, but it repeats, until it goes back to sleep or whatever.

[BillyO]

I'm pretty sure trigger type must be set to Serial > I2C > etc..

And under Analysis > Decode > Bus Protocol set to I2C as well.

Could be wrong though..

[MathWizard]

I'll try that again, at one point, I "protocol copied" the SCL/SDA levels to the trigger, and still nothing.

There was a picture missing from Tautech's post, he had regular rising edge triggering, w/DC=1.5V, and SCL/SDA thres=1.2V same as I tried.

I should find something working for sure, that's sending I2C, or try my 2204E-X 1st.


When I protocol copy the SCL/SDA levels to the trigger, it automatically changes to serial, and yeah I'm on I2C DECODE. When the DVD player powers up fully, the triggering will sort of keep the those data transmissions centered on screen, but yeah still no decoding shows up at all .

[Deichgraf]

Did you check the manual, e.g. section 16.2 I2C Trigger and Serial Decode which describes in detail the scope setup for I2C decoding.

Its not just to selected I2C decoding, but also "... to synchronize the settings between the trigger and decoding configurations" for the SDA and SCL channel.

[2N3055]

I'll try that again, at one point, I "protocol copied" the SCL/SDA levels to the trigger, and still nothing.

There was a picture missing from Tautech's post, he had regular rising edge triggering, w/DC=1.5V, and SCL/SDA thres=1.2V same as I tried.

I should find something working for sure, that's sending I2C, or try my 2204E-X 1st.


When I protocol copy the SCL/SDA levels to the trigger, it automatically changes to serial, and yeah I'm on I2C DECODE. When the DVD player powers up fully, the triggering will sort of keep the those data transmissions centered on screen, but yeah still no decoding shows up at all .

Which signal is Clock and which one is data? One with more transitions  should be clock ....
And clock does not look very "clocky"...

It looks more like you are looking at MOSI/MISO and /CS on SPI line (without clock) than like I2C signal...

[BillyO]

It looks more like you are looking at MOSI/MISO and /CS on SPI line (without clock) than like I2C signal...

+1

It sure does.  I missed that.

What chip is it (mfr. part number)?

[Martin72]

Hi,

But this is the 2nd time I tried I2C on the SDS2204Xplus, and not seem to get any thing.

If nothing is displayed, it may be that:
- Protocol signals are incorrectly assigned (clk/data)
- If they are assigned correctly, the thresholds are too low/too high
- Rarely: Too little memory
- Final: It is not an I²C signal at all.

The trigger is not so important at first.

Edit:
The triggerlevel (ch3, clk signal) is far above the signal level - It doesn´t matter for the decoding.

[tautech]

So what am I doing wrong here in this picture? I'm trying to hack a DVD player's VFD display, and I'm looking at the I2C pins off the EEPROM, between the main IC, and the VFD MCU.

The Green trace is the SCL line, and blue is data. I didn't see any decoding happening, so I copied most of your settings, I'm on 10bit mode but I think I have the same trigger settings. It let's me choose which CH is SCL or SDA. I've tried serial triggering, and didn't get that to do much either. I've tired rising and falling edge triggers.

In 2 pic's I was triggering off SDA to get a better pic of SDA.

In the Utility settings, it still says I have 30 free uses of I2C left. So what am I missing here ? I've had I2C work on my sds1204X-E, I can try that too, I've had that work before.

But this is the 2nd time I tried I2C on the SDS2204Xplus, and not seem to get any thing. Do I have some other setting wrong or not activated ? All clues to me say that these really are the I2C pins, and not SPI, etc. I only have parts of the DVD player, so IDK what the IC is really sending, but it repeats, until it goes back to sleep or whatever.

Hmmm
IMO you don't have a Clk, only CS.
Try setting up with just data and CS.

If needed I can show screenshots using CS.

[MathWizard]

It looks more like you are looking at MOSI/MISO and /CS on SPI line (without clock) than like I2C signal...

+1

It sure does.  I missed that.

What chip is it (mfr. part number)?

Yeah I'm just checking the I2C rules again, and yeah I'm forgetting I2C does have the clock signal running on the line, so all others can see it.

The main DVD IC is some Toshiba TC90600FG, so far I haven't found a datasheet or pinout for it, but the VFD MCU is a Toshiba CH72FG-4U54, that seems to be a TMP86CH72FG. It's some TLCS-870 family IC, similar to Z80 CPU's. And I'm looking at the SDA/SCL pins as listed in the datasheet below, and also from a partial layout view of the VFD PCB. And the EEPROM is just some common one, with it's address all gnd'ed.

Ok thanks guys I'll try some other decoders, and read some more on those you've mentioned, I thought I remembered I2C better, as I just did a mini-review last week.

[BillyO]

It certainly does have an I2C bus.  SCL on pin15 and SDA on pin 14.

They might also be using it in SIO mode and/or pin 16 may have activity on  it in I2C mode (unlikely).  Check to make sure you were not connected to pin 16 instead of pin 15.

Once a transfer begins the SLC pin should have very regular and contiguous pulses on it until the transfer ends.  The SDA pin would be more irregular.

[2N3055]

It looks more like you are looking at MOSI/MISO and /CS on SPI line (without clock) than like I2C signal...

+1

It sure does.  I missed that.

What chip is it (mfr. part number)?

Yeah I'm just checking the I2C rules again, and yeah I'm forgetting I2C does have the clock signal running on the line, so all others can see it.

The main DVD IC is some Toshiba TC90600FG, so far I haven't found a datasheet or pinout for it, but the VFD MCU is a Toshiba CH72FG-4U54, that seems to be a TMP86CH72FG. It's some TLCS-870 family IC, similar to Z80 CPU's. And I'm looking at the SDA/SCL pins as listed in the datasheet below, and also from a partial layout view of the VFD PCB. And the EEPROM is just some common one, with it's address all gnd'ed.

Ok thanks guys I'll try some other decoders, and read some more on those you've mentioned, I thought I remembered I2C better, as I just did a mini-review last week.

That chip has SSI, that shares some pins with I2C.
SSI can be set to work in SPI like mode.
What EEPROM is used? They also come in I2C and SPI versions..

BillyO is right. Clock should look like clock. Martin has shown good example how good I2C signal should look.

[MathWizard]

Yeah I just doubled checked my wiring, and both my wires are 100 ohms from the CH72FG, SDA on p14, and SCL on p15, but I should check some other pins for a I2C clock, maybe this is not really the same pinout too.

Although this is the only thing connected to those SDA/SCL lines on the EEPROM I don't have included on that pic below, it's right on those lines too. And nothing else besides those 3 chips.

The EEPROM is some S24C0, SMD 8pin, with all 3 address pins soldered low to GND, and just p5/6 going to SCL/SDA, I think p7 is R/W and that's tied low.

[Martin72]

Martin has shown good example how good I2C signal should look.

I have refined this a little.



@MathWizard:
You know the model name of the player, can you name it ?

[MathWizard]

I think it was a Toshiba SD-3950, I have the main PCB, the VDF and remote PCB's, but no PSU or other DVD parts. IDK for sure if it was working when I scrapped it years ago, but the motor IC seems fried, IDK if I did that years ago, or if it was like it already.

So IDK what the main IC will be trying to do anyways, it will be missing signals for sure. But I just want to hack the VFD IC/display, and maybe use it for something else, like a PSU I made.

But I did make a map of most the power rails and chips, so I'm applying a 5VSTBY, 5V, pre3V3, and -20V and another driver on a breadboard for the VFD.

[MathWizard]

OK the scope can decode some stuff, so it's working at least.

Could this be SIO (Serial Input Output) or SSP (SPI) (Synchronous Serial Port (Serial Peripheral Interface))

On the VFD IC,
Yellow is on p17-SIO chip select input
Red = p15-Serial data output
Blue = p16-Serial clock I/O
Green = p14-Serial data input

So maybe red is some MISO and grn is MOSI ?

As far as I can see, if CH3 is the clock, nothing changes on it's rising edges. But red/grn do change to any state, and seem to start changing exactly when blu starts falling low. There's 8 low points, and 7 high points, but it's pulled high, so that could be 8 highs or 9.

In the link below, their example of SIO, it looks like the data is read on the falling edges of the CLK, so the opposite of mine here.

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/us/semiconductor/knowledge/e-learning/village/seven-serial-interfaces-of-toshiba-mcu.html

It should be this block diagram in the VFD IC

[2N3055]

OK the scope can decode some stuff, so it's working at least.

Could this be SIO (Serial Input Output) or SSP (SPI) (Synchronous Serial Port (Serial Peripheral Interface))

On the VFD IC,
Yellow is on p17-SIO chip select input
Red = p15-Serial data output
Blue = p16-Serial clock I/O
Green = p14-Serial data input

So maybe red is some MISO and grn is MOSI ?

As far as I can see, if CH3 is the clock, nothing changes on it's rising edges. But red/grn do change to any state, and seem to start changing exactly when blu starts falling low. There's 8 low points, and 7 high points, but it's pulled high, so that could be 8 highs or 9.

In the link below, their example of SIO, it looks like the data is read on the falling edges of the CLK, so the opposite of mine here.

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/us/semiconductor/knowledge/e-learning/village/seven-serial-interfaces-of-toshiba-mcu.html

It should be this block diagram in the VFD IC

Yes, that is what I meant. It looks like SPI.

[MathWizard]

Well I won't have a cheap logic analyzer til next week, so I should try and write some Arduino program to do it. I could down load one, but I need to learn some more code.

I'm just reading through the datasheet of the IC, I want to get it working on it's own, using I2C and Arduino. There's probably Z80 emulators, and assembly language guides I should get too.