Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[mathstudi]

Checksum of the file, for comparing, read out with intel quartus prime light and usb blaster.

Same checksum here.

I would now be very interested in the checksum of tautech's and TheDefpom's STB-3 demo board firmware - would that be possible to post? Perhaps a fellow reader would be interested in posting the checksum of the STB-3 demo board firmware.

Any news from Siglent regarding firmware for Martin72's and my board?

Have a good weekend all

[KungFuJosh]

I know this isn't going to be fantastically accurate blah blah blah, but I was curious about at what limit the scope would read the frequency accurately above 500MHz. I know the scope is usually within the -3db range up to 600ish MHz, but I got a TinySA Ultra and wanted to mess around.

My scope is reading frequency up to 841MHz accurately before it starts to drop off. Slightly higher will be off by less than 1kHz. If I go too high, the frequency gets further and further off. 900MHz shows up as 828MHz, 1GHz in the 700MHz range etc.




The TinySA Ultra is connected to the SDS2504XP with a 1 meter SMA to BNC cable.

[Martin72]

See also here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/used-1ghz-rf-generator-aim-tti-tgr1040-is-it-worth-it/msg5063833/#msg5063833

[KungFuJosh]

See also here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/used-1ghz-rf-generator-aim-tti-tgr1040-is-it-worth-it/msg5063833/#msg5063833

Nice! I had the same results when skipping by 100MHz, I would guess you can get around mid 800s also.

[trp806mo]

May someone know how to enter a first order LPF in the math function ? (I want to use Vi(1-e(-wot)) but was unlucky to find a way ?

[Martin72]

I join the question, because I would like to calculate the sine out of a sinusoidal 10Khz PWM and display it.
So it would have to be a low-pass function with 1khz -3dB.
With the digital filters (not available with the 2k+) one does not even come close to such a "low" down.

[corey]

I am enjoying my SDS2104X @ 500MHz, except I want to replace the noisy fan (project for another day). It's been a good scope for my home and work.

However I am wondering if the AWG bandwidth is very limited because I ran a RG-316 cable from the AWG output to one of the channel inputs and measured the square wave output. It looks very rounded at anything above 1MHz. I tried using a probe to measure direct to the AWG output and it looks the same. The rise/fall times make the waveform look more like a sine wave. See attached, one is at 5MHz (half of the 10MHz upper limit) and one at 7.5MHz. I've tried toggling the impedances between 1Mohm and 50ohm to no avail. Is it just bandwidth or am I doing something awry?

[tautech]

Is it just bandwidth or am I doing something awry?

Just normal result.
Inbuilt AWG spec is responsible as Rise and Fall times are not fast. What you see is normal and mentioned several times before in this thread.

[KungFuJosh]

Speaking of the fan, I want to replace that too. I'm assuming a nice Noctua fan would be good. Has anybody replaced the fan? If so, what fan did you use?

Thanks,
Josh

[tautech]

Speaking of the fan, I want to replace that too. I'm assuming a nice Noctua fan would be good. Has anybody replaced the fan? If so, what fan did you use?

TBH you should consult Martin about his HD and how quiet they are.
IIRC they have a smart fan and you could accomplish noise reductions just slowing it down some rather than shotgunning a good fan out.
Went through this exercise with a customer and SDS1104X-E and he got a similar spec Noctua and gained little if anything. The fans that Siglent select are pretty good.

[BillyO]

I'm assuming a nice Noctua fan would be good.

Sometimes it's not the fan itself, but just turbulence in the airflow.  In those cases without redesigning the entire cabinet and re-engineering the airflow path no fan will help.

Noctua fans are nice, butt they can't solve all problems.

[Martin72]

Speaking of the fan, I want to replace that too. I'm assuming a nice Noctua fan would be good. Has anybody replaced the fan? If so, what fan did you use?

Thanks,
Josh

Hi Josh,

Starting from here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3795722/#msg3795722

[axantas]

Speaking of the fan, I want to replace that too. I'm assuming a nice Noctua fan would be good. Has anybody replaced the fan? If so, what fan did you use?

I did that replacement with a Noctua NF-A9 FLX, 3-Pin 92mm. It does a wonderful job and the noise is gone. I also used the included  Low-Noise-Adapter (1600/1250/1050rpm) and run it at the lowest possible velocity. No overheating so far...

There is only a 2-pin socket in the DSO, so I just replaced the 3-pin plug on the cable with a 2-pin version. Black/Red wire only.
... no hassle in case of a possible warranty repair, if you remove the sticker at the bottom of the scope carefully.

The noise of the original fan was one thing, but even worse, it ran at a speed that exactly hit the harmonics of the metal base of the scope, so I could enjoy an additional humming sound.   

[KungFuJosh]

Speaking of the fan, I want to replace that too. I'm assuming a nice Noctua fan would be good. Has anybody replaced the fan? If so, what fan did you use?

Thanks,
Josh

Hi Josh,

Starting from here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3795722/#msg3795722

Ha! I'm not surprised it's your fault I bought that crimp set. 🤣

Your post made me want to change the fan back then, but I waited because of the warranty which ends in December.

My fan noise problem isn't just the noise level, it's the clunkiness of the fan itself. It sounds like a bad fan to me. It's not terrible, but y'all know how it is.

I did that replacement with a Noctua NF-A9 FLX, 3-Pin 92mm. It does a wonderful job and the noise is gone. I also used the included  Low-Noise-Adapter (1600/1250/1050rpm) and run it at the lowest possible velocity. No overheating so far...

There is only a 2-pin socket in the DSO, so I just replaced the 3-pin plug on the cable with a 2-pin version. Black/Red wire only.
... no hassle in case of a possible warranty repair, if you remove the sticker at the bottom of the scope carefully.

The noise of the original fan was one thing, but even worse, it ran at a speed that exactly hit the harmonics of the metal base of the scope, so I could enjoy an additional humming sound.   

Thanks, looks like you and Martin used similar fan models. That makes it pretty easy.

Thanks,
Josh

[cragen]

If you want to go a little further with a fan replacement mod, here is what I ended up doing with my SDS2104X plus.

As others have noted, the stock fan has a very unpleasant sound for me, with a "ticking" type sound that really grates on my nerves.  It was always a notable relief whenever I turned off the scope in my otherwise quiet lab.

I bought a Noctua NF-A9 PWM fan that runs at 2000RPM @12V.  The stock fan runs at 1600RPM, and was actually quieter than the Noctua at 2000RPM.  I first used the Low-Noise-Adapter that came with the Noctua to lower the speed to 1600RPM, and the noise was then about equivalent to my ears.  However, the characteristics of the noise were much better.  More white noise, and no "ticking".

Not good enough though, and not really worth the swap in my mind, so I went further.

I wanted full PWM control, but the scope hardware does not support that. I saw other posts of folks using a small PWM controllers, so I picked one of those, and dived in.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L1DZMKS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

This little gadget allows you to set the baseline duty-cycle, and a linear extrapolation between two start/end temperatures.  I had shell access to the scope (via telnet), and was able to collect temperature data from two internal sensors, and the NCT thermistor that came with the PWM controller.

/sys/devices/soc0/amba/e0004000.i2c/i2c-0/0-0048/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input
/sys/devices/soc0/amba/f8007100.adc/iio:device0/in_temp0_raw

I can't speak to the absolute interpretation of these sensor readings, but I do believe the relative values are viable, and they track with the reported temperatures in the "Developer" menu for temperatures.

I first baselined the stock fan as it warmed up in my 20C lab, and ran some FFTs, and other processing to warm it up a bit more.  I then swapped in the Noctua fan with LNA (no PWM), to try an apples to apples comparison.  At steady state, the Noctua fan kept things cooler by 2-3 degrees C.

I then installed the PWM fan controller, and started playing around with various settings, and monitoring the temperatures.  I found what I figured was the optimal settings, that didn't allow the temps to reach more than ~5 degrees C over the stock setup.

It was quieter, but not really by much.  Still a lot noisier than I wanted.  While I was taking things apart and putting them together, I discovered that the majority of the noise was really coming from the air whistling through the Aluminum intake and plastic exhaust vents that the fan was sandwiched between. At that point, I decided to kiss my warranty goodby.

I took off the aluminum cover, cut-out the grid, and also cutout the plastic exhaust grid on the back of the scope 

A little more tweaking of the PWM settings, and I was finally happy.  It really is quiet now.  The majority of the residual noise is from the various intake vents around the perimeter of the scope housing.  Not willing to do anything about that, and it's not bothering me at all.  I no longer have that relieved feeling when I turn it off, and barely notice when it is on.  The steady state temperatures are about 2-3 degrees C higher than the stock fan in a 20-21C room.  The PWM runs at about 55% duty-cycle most of the time, and runs up to 65% if it's really working.  Still has lots of head room if the ambient temperatures get hotter.  Given that the scope is rated to 40C ambient, I running a little warmer is just fine.

Below are some pictures of the mod.  Notice where the thermistor is mounted on a small piece of the original aluminum grid.  I have some plots of the temperature data if someone is interested.

Craig

[KungFuJosh]

The weirdest thing happened. I snapped my fingers, and then the fans were swapped. Warranty sticker still happy, because magic.





Much quieter, and no more annoying clicky noise.

[Martin72]

Warranty sticker still happy, because magic.

Hehehehe....

[MathWizard]

So if these are fully upgraded to 500MHz, and you have a fully upgraded sdg6000, can you do a Bode plot up to 500MHz ? Or is it the 120MHz I saw mentioned before.

I'm just doing my 1st Bode plot, I never tried for some reason on my 1204X-E. I set my AWG to 50R output, and CH copying on. I used CH2/4 on my sds2104, w/ 50R inout on CH2 as DUT input from the AWG. I set CH2 to 1x, IDK if that matters, it's a regular BNC to BNC 50ohm cable. I still have 10x and 1Meg for the CH4 10x probe.

It's not finished all the runs, but the amplitude of this audio amp is about what I wanted, but the phase plot is more like a dirty sine wave, going between back and forth between 180deg and -180deg over the whole 120MHz span. IDK what that's all about.



Yeah and my scope has the fan ticking sound like small gears turning. I don't notice it too much for now, I better stop thinking about it.

[Performa01]

It's not finished all the runs, but the amplitude of this audio amp is about what I wanted, but the phase plot is more like a dirty sine wave, going between back and forth between 180deg and -180deg over the whole 120MHz span. IDK what that's all about.

Check your setup. Meaningful phase measurements can only be done if the travel distance is the same for both the DUT and reference signal.

In other words: the length of the cable between generator and reference input on the scope has to match the sum of cables from generator to DUT and from DUT to DSO and the travel distance of the signal within the DUT has to be allowed for on top of that.

EDIT: You can do just a Vout measurement (instead of Vout/Vin) and see if the result matches your expectations then.

[MathWizard]

I'm using the BNC to BNC that came with the AWG, from AWG CH1 to scope CH2, and the BNC to alligator clips, about the same length, thats going from AWG CH2 to a 4" wire, then the DUT input. All ground leads are on the same spot, a gnd wire feeding the breadboard.

Yeah I think some of the magnitudes are off too, there's some peaks and dips that are probably just reflections or whatever.

Here's a snapshot, the shape around 1Kz is about what I expected, the input was 0.1Vpp in the Bodeplot menu, and it's with Vout/Vin. In LTSpice, with 50mV as AC ref, I have way more gain, like +40dB at 1kHz, not -26dB like the sds has. So IDK what I'm doing.

I know the 2 stage amp circuit works as I wanted, (except it can also act as a 3.2kHz 3.5Vpp phase shift oscillator on the breadboard w/ no input attached, and the 10x probe on the output....)

[tautech]

That's just garbage.

Go back to KISS principles.
Use just 1 ch from Arb and Tee it, 1 to scope as ref and 1 to DUT In.
DUT Out to 2nd DSO channel and everything 1x attenuation 50 Ohm.
Be sure to assign channels in Bode plot menus correctly and you should get a vastly different result.

[MathWizard]

Yeah I don't have any T's or terminator's yet, and on the breadboard I just feed the signal right into the coupling cap, no 47 R resisitor there, (I don't own any 50's), and there's no output load beside the 10x probe.

In the menu DUT input was CH2, and DUT output is CH4

Now I'll check the way I used to do sweep checks, which is just sweep the AWG, with scope set on roll mode or some long time base w/ acquisition, and get the envelope.

That works, and with 200us timebase, the screen update speed is ok for looking at FFT, sweeping 10Hz up to 1MHz, over 10sec's. And For 10mVpp in, I get ~ 2Vpp max out, 0dB out , and that's what the FFT says too. So hopefully everything is working right.

[tautech]

AWG Channel coupling is not precise and needs be trimmed with a Phase adjustment when using both channels for Bode plot Ref and DUT In.

Try everything set to HiZ then.
How high frequency do you need sweep ?
The LF range takes the most time to sweep so trimming each end of the frequency in settings will speed getting results.

TBH the first tries I had were garbage too so I went looking for a simple BP RC filter design and adjusted Bode settings until the correct result was given.
Look here and a few posts later on the next page:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1435854/#msg1435854

[OneGeekGuy]

Hi everyone!

Owner of SDS2000X Plus could tell me which are the dimensions of the oscilloscope?

Thinking about upgrade my current DS1054Z to this Osci....so far for the price is one of the best option you can get.

Thanks!!

[Martin72]

Hi,
352x224x111mm(LxHxW), according to the free avaible datasheet..