Siglent SDS7000A 3 and 4 GHz 12 bit DSO's

[Martin72]

https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS7304A-H12.html

Not too expensive...

[simone.pignatti]

Here is a nice picture I took today at Productronica in Munich.

[Martin72]

15.6" is already pretty huge, but in the meantime I have a bigger desk...
No, such a (price) class will remain a private dream.

[hpw]

Is there any known reason, as LeCroy with the RIS feature, as Siglent do not have this feature in any DSO gear?

To purchase such Silgent, any other as ROI counts (Support behavior, SW Update rate as bug fixing, the Country and its Po.... behavior...)

as for that money, spent value as for World Trusting 

Hp

[Martin72]

I've said this before, with Lecroy a short email is enough and it doesn't take long, then an engineer calls who has also put the same device on the table and then it starts.
(Of course they don't do that with a Wavesurfer 3000 or even smaller  )
They also have to offer this support if they want to play at the top.
But it could also be that this is the case, as I only know the small devices up to the HD from them.

[Performa01]

Regarding service: you may have noticed that there are two classes of instruments: the X-series, where price/performance ratio is minimized, and the A-series, which is meant for the professional market. The latter also has a different level of support.

[luudee]

What I really would like to know, how does the SDS7000 compare to the MXO5

I am ready for an upgrade, but need help deciding ...


Thanks !!!

rudi

[Martin72]

The latter also has a different level of support.

I can well imagine that.

@Rudi:
In such price ranges, there must be a way to be able to view/test the respective products beforehand.
Lecroy also lent us an HDO for about 3 weeks.

[luudee]

@Rudi:
In such price ranges, there must be a way to be able to view/test the respective products beforehand.
Lecroy also lent us an HDO for about 3 weeks.

Hi Martin,

yes R&S I could probably get an eval unit. But Siglent rep in Thailand is useless:
Their idea of customer service is, pay 130% of the listed purchase price upfront,
wait 3 months for delivery. It's a typical Asian brain-dead attitude. And they have
zero stock of any higher end scopes.

The R&S rep is fantastic on the other hand !

If I want the SDS7000 I have to import it myself. Most likely buy it directly from
Siglent China.

Best Regards,
rudi

[KungFuJosh]

What I really would like to know, how does the SDS7000 compare to the MXO5

Buy both, and send me the one you don't like. 😉

[2N3055]

@Rudi:
In such price ranges, there must be a way to be able to view/test the respective products beforehand.
Lecroy also lent us an HDO for about 3 weeks.

Hi Martin,

yes R&S I could probably get an eval unit. But Siglent rep in Thailand is useless:
Their idea of customer service is, pay 130% of the listed purchase price upfront,
wait 3 months for delivery. It's a typical Asian brain-dead attitude. And they have
zero stock of any higher end scopes.

The R&S rep is fantastic on the other hand !

If I want the SDS7000 I have to import it myself. Most likely buy it directly from
Siglent China.

Best Regards,
rudi

So you would like help with compiling a table comparison of basic data?

First, these two scopes are not for the exactly the same market. 

-SDSD7000A  - 4GHz BW 20/10 GS/s
-MXO5           - 2GHz BW  5/2,5 GS/s

-SDSD7000A  - 4 ch
-MXO5           - 4/8 ch 

MXO5 is scope that is optimised for user experience (fast refresh rates on scope and FFT), big screen and all of that.
It does not have any advanced analytical capabilities at this moment above SDS6000A. Actually SDS6000A has eye diagram that MXO5 does not have (at least at the moment).

It is not high end advanced analysis scope, but rather "luxury version" of (at this moment) pretty basic scope. It is basically R&S RTA4000 on steroids. More memory, bigger screen, faster processing, but no additional capabilities.
Don't get me wrong. This is not critique.
There is a market for what is "better than basic" scopes but with large screen, and fancy user experience.
If you look at MSO5 brochure, it is obvious they are targeting electric power, automotive, embedded and such market. But in style, with big screen, window customizations and so on. Lots of analog channels, decodes etc...
I think it will be very good scope for that if you can bear the price.

But apart from 12 bit, bigger screen, and max 8 channels, even SDS6000A (Not SDS7000A !!) has more analytic capabilities. And SDS6000A has 5GS/s at all time, so it is a 2GHz scope propper. MXO5 cannot achieve 2 GHz BW with all channels on.

Enter SDS7000A. 4GHz BW. 20/10 GS/s. 12 bit. PC platform. They also claim much faster trigger rate than ever before, up to 1M Wfms/s. ERES is equivalent of R&S Hires mode. 3GHz SDS7000A claims similar noise floor at 5mV/div to 2GHz MXO5, which means SDS7000 is very low noise for it's BW. Several low speed decodes free. 32 Mpts FFT.
Compliance tests for USB2.0, 100Base-TX, 100Base-T1,  1000Base-T1 for now. SignalScan, Eye/Jitter Analysis.

It is obvious that it scope for faster signals, geared more towards digital designer.. But still being 12 bit, it is excellent for fast analog too...
It is a scope that is tier above MXO5 in capabilities.
It was just released so info is still scarce. There are lots of features to be introduced with time too.

Conclusion? These are basically different type of scopes.

R&S MXO5 is made to be very "fancy" analytically simpler scope with 8 ch emphasizing "user experience" above all.

SDS7000 is Siglent's new powerhorse. It's class is 4GHz 12 bit scopes similar to LeCroy.....

For the list price of 500MHz MXO5 you can get SDS7000A 4GHz..

Which one do you need?

[Martin72]

. It is basically R&S RTA4000 on steroids.

 
Made my day 

[luudee]

So you would like help with compiling a table comparison of basic data?

.....

SDS7000 is Siglent's new powerhorse. It's class is 4GHz 12 bit scopes similar to LeCroy.....

For the list price of 500MHz MXO5 you can get SDS7000A 4GHz..

Which one do you need?

Thank you so much for your analysis, 2N3055. 

I always look forward to your posts !


Kind Regards,
rudi

[2N3055]

So you would like help with compiling a table comparison of basic data?

.....

SDS7000 is Siglent's new powerhorse. It's class is 4GHz 12 bit scopes similar to LeCroy.....

For the list price of 500MHz MXO5 you can get SDS7000A 4GHz..

Which one do you need?

Thank you so much for your analysis, 2N3055. 

I always look forward to your posts !


Kind Regards,
rudi

Rudi,
thank you for the kind words.
My pleasure if it was helpful..

Best,

Sinisa

[Sighound36]

Had an update on UK pricing today the 3Ghz is going to around £17K and the 4Ghz in the 22K mark

Get to play with one in mid December, looking forward to it 

[Martin72]

Lecroy Wavepro 404HD...4Ghz bandwith, 20GSa/s/100Mpts upt to 5Gpts.
The SDS7000A can be classified in roughly this class.
And from this point of view, the two Siglents are a bargain.
Really great from siglent.

[BillyO]

Starting at only $28,500.00 CAD.  Hmm, maybe I should buy two!   

Actually, that's a bargain for the specs.   Game changer for sure.

[hpw]

Lecroy Wavepro 404HD...4Ghz bandwith, 20GSa/s/100Mpts upt to 5Gpts.
The SDS7000A can be classified in roughly this class.
And from this point of view, the two Siglents are a bargain.
Really great from siglent.

IMHO, just compare the given internal reference accuracy and soon you will understand about the possible Jitter figures...

what gear to be trusted for any professionals.

[tautech]

Lecroy Wavepro 404HD...4Ghz bandwith, 20GSa/s/100Mpts upt to 5Gpts.
The SDS7000A can be classified in roughly this class.
And from this point of view, the two Siglents are a bargain.
Really great from siglent.

IMHO, just compare the given internal reference accuracy and soon you will understand about the possible Jitter figures...

what gear to be trusted for any professionals.

Someone is not doing their homework ! 
Optional internal reference:
https://siglentna.com/product/10m_ocxo_l/

[2N3055]

Lecroy Wavepro 404HD...4Ghz bandwith, 20GSa/s/100Mpts upt to 5Gpts.
The SDS7000A can be classified in roughly this class.
And from this point of view, the two Siglents are a bargain.
Really great from siglent.

IMHO, just compare the given internal reference accuracy and soon you will understand about the possible Jitter figures...

what gear to be trusted for any professionals.

What jitter?

Scope timebase jitter?
Sample jitter?
Trigger jitter?
Characteristics of Jitter/Eye measurement package?

I honestly don't understand what you are saying.

And the last sentence I cannot understand if it is an insult or question.

Let's compare:

SDS7000:
Standard (TCXO): ±2 ppm initial (0~50℃); ±0.5 ppm 1st year aging; ±3 ppm 20-year aging
Optional (OCXO)：±100 ppb initial (25℃)；±1 ppb over temperature (0~50℃)；±50 ppb 1st year aging

R&S MSO5 datasheet:
Timebase accuracy after delivery/calibration, at +23 °C ±0.2 ppm
during calibration interval ±1 ppm

I would say few things in this comparison. Siglent specification is more detailed (profesional ?).
R&S has high initial accuracy than SDS7000 with TCXO but worse 1 years aging and no long term specification.
SDS7000 equipped with OCXO is superior in all 3 paramaters.

No manufacturer specified phase noise/clock jitter of internal oscillator.  Can't compare it. I will refrain of hand waving.

[J_in_MN]

A video from Siglent that talks a little about the design decisions and differentiation compared to competitors.

[hpw]

Well, well,

 I do not get any more blamed by any OXCO, before you measured it or tear down what crap you have!
In addition the final performance counts and the possible measurements as RIS or similar required.

At first, IMHO the base oscillator counts (any different as seen on the old LeCroy WM8xxx or SD6xxx series).

So as Siglent & Rigol are new on that Jitter Tools, a real tear down & compare with a reference would show up how the really performs.
Using various DSO as from Teledyne, Keysight, R&S, Siglent & Rigols & etc. The Jitter Tools setup is also not a easy task.

Its like a fast pulse, as real 30ps Rise time and lower DSO brands will show up false values.

Attached Teledyne Wavepro HD given figures as for me a better reference. 

[Sighound36]

Being a WaveprovHD owner I well comparing 4Ghz 7000 Siglent shortly

I expect it to perform very well i may even purchase one when the Wavemaster HD arrives

The R&S MX05 is notb being this league its a well engineered and specifically designed scope for a different sector of the market

The MX05 is basically two 04's in one box with another 500Mhz on top its analysis tools are basic at best currently it's also 5GS/s not 20GS/s it certainly has its place no question.

But we are comparing apples to oranges imho

The internal claimed jitter on the Wavepro hd is 60pS with its internal clocks.

[hpw]

Being a WaveprovHD owner I well comparing 4Ghz 7000 Siglent shortly

I expect it to perform very well i may even purchase one when the Wavemaster HD arrives

The R&S MX05 is notb being this league its a well engineered and specifically designed scope for a different sector of the market

The MX05 is basically two 04's in one box with another 500Mhz on top its analysis tools are basic at best currently it's also 5GS/s not 20GS/s it certainly has its place no question.

But we are comparing apples to oranges imho

The internal claimed jittervonbthe Wavepro hd is 60pS with its internal clocks.

It is 60fs NOT 60ps, otherwise 20ps time scale would be unreadable...

The other question rises about the claimed 60fs RMS and it's PN figures. I expect here a 10MHz internal oscillator.

Hp

[Sighound36]

Being a WaveprovHD owner I well comparing 4Ghz 7000 Siglent shortly

I expect it to perform very well i may even purchase one when the Wavemaster HD arrives

The R&S MX05 is notb being this league its a well engineered and specifically designed scope for a different sector of the market

The MX05 is basically two 04's in one box with another 500Mhz on top its analysis tools are basic at best currently it's also 5GS/s not 20GS/s it certainly has its place no question.

But we are comparing apples to oranges imho

The internal claimed jittervonbthe Wavepro hd is 60pS with its internal clocks.

It is 60fs NOT 60ps, otherwise 20ps time scale would be unreadable...

The other question rises about the claimed 60fs RMS and it's PN figures. I expect here a 10MHz internal oscillator.

Hp

You are quite correct HP, I should have spotted that schoolboy error, in my defence I was using the pad in the small hours of the morning!

The Wavepro HD/Signal genny/RTA are also slaved to the lab's a 13.2fS jitter reference 10Mhz clock which is -123dbm @ 1Hz no distribution box just eight outputs from the clock direct. Even the  industry standard FSWP doesn't have that sort of phase noise (or lack of it)

However the Siglent 7000's base line spec I don't know but I'm sure some one will enlighten me, the 7000 is due here in the UK before Christmas so I will be spending some time with one very soon.