Author Topic: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's  (Read 656899 times)

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Offline core

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #125 on: November 30, 2023, 08:13:43 am »

SDS 2000X HD is not a beginners or hobby scope. It is very inexpensive actually, for what it is..
Price is important but follows function, capability and quality.


I agree, it's more advanced than an usual scope. If I will ever want to buy an R&S 2000 series, for sure the SDS2000 X HD will be a better option in every aspect.


For what I can see SDS800X HD will have most of the capabilities of SDS2000X HD in smaller package.
If they price it close to DHO800 (meaning reasonably above) that would create problems for Rigol. DHO800 is very basic scope with very little capabilities.
It would make superb (once it is debugged) replacement for Rigol DS1000Z.
But in comparison to SDS800X HD, DHO800 has something like 30% of capabilities of Siglent. Just compare math channels.


I already said, I think that even if the SDS800X HD will be in the range price of DHO900, will be a best seller. DHO800 have nothing in common with SDS800X HS, it's a lower range.


But, for the record, I personally don't agree with practice about releasing info about new products too soon. I think it is counterproductive. It makes fact that one manufacturer is actually very professional and develops products in very serious and professional manner somehow presented like a bad thing.
"Siglent lost the race to market" instead "Rigol released too soon and now there are thousands of people with scopes that don't work".

I personally think Rigol was very unprofessional and released unfinished products. If anything, with time it will be many unhappy users. Rigol did bad thing for long term reputation. In my opinion, of course..

For sure. Even if I have and use MSO5000 for digital things, I like my SDS1104X-E every time I use it for other things. I have the feeling that is somehow better even if it's a lower range because of smaller memory and lower speed. A better control of every measuring parameter, for example FFT is far mode advanced and will be. The new HDO have the same FFT implementation as MSO5000, so yeah.
That's why I was expected the SDS1000X HD.

But now I will have some patience and take in account to buy a SDS2000X HD when the time will come.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2023, 08:30:02 am by core »
 
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Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #126 on: November 30, 2023, 11:06:04 am »
Quote from: Neutrion
And, by the way the sds2104x-e for example is not a really good 200 Mhz scope

Where did you get that idea?
Never mind. Such a scope doesn't even exist.
And if so, it would certainly be a 100 MHz instrument.
Of course you couldn't imagine which scope am I talking about. :)  Of course 1204x-e
 

Online Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2023, 12:26:02 pm »
Of course you couldn't imagine which scope am I talking about. :)  Of course 1204x-e
Sorry, quite obviously my thinking was a bit too complicated. There is an SDS2000X-E series after all, which even includes a 200 MHz model. And some might ask what's the use of this, as it is kind of a niche product, meant for analog engineers on a budget.
 

Offline Neutrion

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #128 on: December 01, 2023, 06:14:23 pm »
OK, I thought you were just joking. :)
 
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Offline Pinkus

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Online Mortymore

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #130 on: December 08, 2023, 06:44:24 pm »
Datasheet (Chinese only): https://www.siglent.com/u_file/download/23_12_04/SDS800X%20HD_Datasheet_CN01A.pdf

Thanks Pinkus  :-+

Datasheet translated to English

PS: There's a new 4 channel PSU coming?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 06:52:35 pm by Mortymore »
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #131 on: December 08, 2023, 08:17:24 pm »
Afaik the last.

Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2023, 10:12:15 am »
Yep, announcing "We also have a HD model! Wait for us!!" after Rigol releases their DHO1000 isn't helping anybody.

Sure it helps people: both customers and manufacturers.

Clearly, early announcements like this help the manufacturer because some customers might delay purchasing a competitor's product (that's currently on the market) and eventually buy their product instead.

Less obvious is that it also sometimes helps customers.  Many customers want to see our roadmap so they can make an informed decision about an important purchase - buy now or wait?

As long as the information about future products is accurate (in terms of features, quality, completeness) and the dates are also accurate, I think it's actually a good thing if companies are able to keep customers in the loop as to what is coming out. 
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Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2023, 10:17:36 am »
If info is public knowledge, then confidentiality doesn't apply.

As for confidentiality agreement, like tv84 said, once ANYBODY on a planet publishes a peep about it is not confidential anymore.
There are usually other exclusions as well.

As someone who has to sign / observe a lot of non-disclosure agreements:  it doesn't matter if the whole world is shouting "confidential" information from the rooftops - I'm still bound by the NDA until the NDA is rescinded or expires.  Period.
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Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2023, 10:20:25 am »
I agree, it's more advanced than an usual scope. If I will ever want to buy an R&S 2000 series, for sure the SDS2000 X HD will be a better option in every aspect.

I would beg to differ :)  I haven't looked at the specs yet or done a proper comparison, but the RTB2000 is a very strong performer.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #135 on: December 09, 2023, 12:48:56 pm »
If info is public knowledge, then confidentiality doesn't apply.

As for confidentiality agreement, like tv84 said, once ANYBODY on a planet publishes a peep about it is not confidential anymore.
There are usually other exclusions as well.

As someone who has to sign / observe a lot of non-disclosure agreements:  it doesn't matter if the whole world is shouting "confidential" information from the rooftops - I'm still bound by the NDA until the NDA is rescinded or expires.  Period.

It depends on actual NDA wording. USA companies are very strict in that regard usualy.
 
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Offline Pinkus

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #136 on: December 09, 2023, 12:51:06 pm »
mmmh - no HDMI output? (did not see this in the data sheet)
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #137 on: December 09, 2023, 12:54:18 pm »
I agree, it's more advanced than an usual scope. If I will ever want to buy an R&S 2000 series, for sure the SDS2000 X HD will be a better option in every aspect.

I would beg to differ :)  I haven't looked at the specs yet or done a proper comparison, but the RTB2000 is a very strong performer.

And I respectfuly urge you look at the datasheet. RTB 2000 i very good entry level scope. But SDS2000X HD has very advanced capabilities, not even MXO4 has.. it even has zone triggers.. >:D
 
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Online tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #138 on: December 09, 2023, 12:55:36 pm »
As someone who has to sign / observe a lot of non-disclosure agreements:  it doesn't matter if the whole world is shouting "confidential" information from the rooftops - I'm still bound by the NDA until the NDA is rescinded or expires.  Period.

Yes but now you're referring to a NDA between a corporate employee and his employer, about their own info. We were talking about contracts between a company and its suppliers or customers. I also have participated in plenty of those contracts and practically all have the clause of the public info.

Your NDA with your company doesn't stop you from chatting about leaked info from other manufacturers.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2023, 12:59:00 pm by tv84 »
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #139 on: December 09, 2023, 01:22:44 pm »
mmmh - no HDMI output? (did not see this in the data sheet)

Traditionally, only the absolute top models get an hdmi output, even my HD doesn't have one, it has no video output at all.
For whatever reason Siglent does not attach any importance to this.

Online Mortymore

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #140 on: December 09, 2023, 03:42:21 pm »
Rigol pointing a finger at Siglent: "You are copying us with your 800"
Siglent, caring less: "No we're not. Our scopes doesn't have HDMI"
 
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Online Antonio90

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #141 on: December 09, 2023, 04:59:22 pm »
I agree, it's more advanced than an usual scope. If I will ever want to buy an R&S 2000 series, for sure the SDS2000 X HD will be a better option in every aspect.

I would beg to differ :)  I haven't looked at the specs yet or done a proper comparison, but the RTB2000 is a very strong performer.

And I respectfuly urge you look at the datasheet. RTB 2000 i very good entry level scope. But SDS2000X HD has very advanced capabilities, not even MXO4 has.. it even has zone triggers.. >:D
The MSO5000 Is the lowest priced 'scope that has zone triggers. It's a pity it has such a noisy front-end and no 50Ohm inputs.
 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #142 on: December 10, 2023, 06:24:37 am »
mmmh - no HDMI output? (did not see this in the data sheet)
Not in the I/O list = not available/implemented.

TBH their webserver works well and these units support external mouse and keyboard, directly or via PC webserver.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
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Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #143 on: December 10, 2023, 09:50:40 am »
But SDS2000X HD has very advanced capabilities, not even MXO4 has.. it even has zone triggers.. >:D

Touché :)

The MXO zone trigger will be out next year.  The reason it's taking a while is that it is an ASIC based trigger, which makes it an order of magnitude (or more) faster than the traditional way of implementing zone triggers.

Does the Siglent have that?
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Online Mortymore

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #144 on: December 10, 2023, 10:35:26 am »
mmmh - no HDMI output? (did not see this in the data sheet)
Not in the I/O list = not available/implemented.

TBH their webserver works well and these units support external mouse and keyboard, directly or via PC webserver.

That's really what I'm interested in, and miss in my current scope.
With small displays, that could be a way to turn around the inconvenience, if it works well.

Online Antonio90

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #145 on: December 10, 2023, 10:59:13 am »
mmmh - no HDMI output? (did not see this in the data sheet)
Not in the I/O list = not available/implemented.

TBH their webserver works well and these units support external mouse and keyboard, directly or via PC webserver.

That's really what I'm interested in, and miss in my current scope.
With small displays, that could be a way to turn around the inconvenience, if it works well.
Well, an HDMI out would drastically lower the perceived value of a bigger screen. That would be like offering decoders for free, or zone trigger in an entry level scope. Not good for market or price bracket segmentation.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #146 on: December 10, 2023, 01:46:12 pm »
With small displays, that could be a way to turn around the inconvenience, if it works well.

The display might not be as much of a problem as you imagine.

I don't know about the Siglent but the Rigol has such good font rendering, etc., that I much prefer it to older, bigger, displays.

b) Get a stylus instead of a mouse. You're mostly clicking things in the UI so it's much faster than dragging a mouse around a desk.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #147 on: December 10, 2023, 06:29:33 pm »
Don't underestimate the usefulness of a mouse scrollwheel vs any stylus.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #148 on: December 11, 2023, 07:12:22 am »
But SDS2000X HD has very advanced capabilities, not even MXO4 has.. it even has zone triggers.. >:D

Touché :)

The MXO zone trigger will be out next year.  The reason it's taking a while is that it is an ASIC based trigger, which makes it an order of magnitude (or more) faster than the traditional way of implementing zone triggers.

Does the Siglent have that?

Sorry Paul.. Like little Sheldon's Meemaw like to say..  "I kinda had to" (with thick Texan twang :-))

Doing things right takes time. I just wish manufacturers would not release so soon. R&S is not the only one that is a bit aggressive in that regard.
It all gets sorted out eventually (it is a R&S after all) but I, personally, don't like it.
Maybe it makes sense to MBAs in charge (they might even have some numbers that prove it) but as scope user, I don't like it. They should know better.

On Siglent it is hardware based AFAIK.
Zone trigger works in conjunction with standard trigger as an additional AND/NAND function, so it's speed is always coupled with base trigger blind time anyways...

My point here was that SDS2000X HD has many mid/high range features (as counted by A brands).
Just take a look at fully custom math channels.

I don't even think that many understand how powerful it is.
You can type formula that can nest many mathematical expressions for one math channel.
What you would do on R&S RTB2000/RTA3000/RTM4000 by serially piping 5 math channels for 5 different operations, you can simply type as an expression in 2000X HD and use up only one math channel. You want math function that operates simultaneously on all 4 ch? No problem, just type it in...

Many details like this...

Very powerful little beast..

Just the fact that we can even mention MXO4 when comparing function parity is telltale sign how good little Siglent is. MXO4 costs 5-10X more..
 
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Offline pdenisowski

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Re: Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's coming
« Reply #149 on: December 11, 2023, 07:55:29 am »
Just the fact that we can even mention MXO4 when comparing function parity is telltale sign how good little Siglent is. MXO4 costs 5-10X more..

But even on base specs they are quite different oscilloscopes.  For example
  • the SDS2000X HD has bandwidth of 100 - 350 MHz, MXO4 has bandwidth of 200 MHz to 1.5 GHz
  • the SDS2000X HD has max update rate of 100,000 wfms/sec, MXO4 has max update rate of 4,500,000 wfms/sec
  • the SDS2000X HD has max memory depth of 200 Mpts/channel, MXO4 has max update rate of 400 Mpts/channel
  • the SDS2000X HD has max sample rate of 2 GSa/sec, MXO4 has max sample rate of 5 Ga/sec

As per Siglent, the highest end model (SDS2354X HD / 350 MHz) is 4,145 USD.  A 350 MHz MXO4 (whose base specs are over twice that of the Siglent), lists for USD 13,400.  So not exactly "5-10X more" :)

https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-mxo-4-oscilloscope_63493-1164992.html

And there is a LOT more to a scope than even these base specs.  I would invite you to do a side-by-side compare of FFT functionality, for example.

Not casting shade on Siglent - they have come a long way - but the model that you mention isn't anywhere close to being a competitor to the MXO4.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 08:20:46 am by pdenisowski »
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