Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[tautech]

SDS800X HD — Bode Interface Does Not Validate AWG Connection Over LAN; Only mDNS/NTP Traffic Seen. Network Reset Needed?

Context:
Equipment: Siglent SDS800X HD, firmware 1.6.5; FY6900 AWG; ESP-01 configured according to https://github.com/sq6sfo/espBode.
Network: Local LAN with 3 devices — SDS800X HD, FY6900, Windows 11 PC.
Connectivity: From Windows 11, both oscilloscope and AWG are visible.

Problem:
In the SDS800X HD, under Bode Plot > AWG over LAN, the Test button is unstable: UI either freezes, and no TCP/UDP traffic is sent to the AWG.
Wireshark capture shows that pressing Test generates only mDNS and NTP packets from the oscilloscope, with no packets sent to the AWG IP.

Reproduction steps:
   In the Bode configuration interface
   Enter the AWG LAN IP in SDS800X HD.
   Press Test for LAN to AWG IP Connectivity Check.
   No network traffic is generated to the IP from the AWG, and sometimes the UI freezes.

Attempts made:
   Full reboot
   Factory reset
   Security Erase
   Firmware update to 1.6.5

Result: no effect, issue persists.

Questions:
Is there a procedure to fully reset network settings or to restore partitions preserving critical files for SDS800X HD?

Notes:
PC communication with FY6900 and SDS800X HD over LAN works fine. The problem lies between SDS800X HD and FY6900 in the Bode interface.

I sincerely appreciate your support!

Why should a Siglent DSO support some other brand AWG ? 

[crysti]

SDS800X HD — Bode Interface Does Not Validate AWG Connection Over LAN; Only mDNS/NTP Traffic Seen. Network Reset Needed?

Context:
Equipment: Siglent SDS800X HD, firmware 1.6.5; FY6900 AWG; ESP-01 configured according to https://github.com/sq6sfo/espBode.
Network: Local LAN with 3 devices — SDS800X HD, FY6900, Windows 11 PC.
Connectivity: From Windows 11, both oscilloscope and AWG are visible.

Problem:
In the SDS800X HD, under Bode Plot > AWG over LAN, the Test button is unstable: UI either freezes, and no TCP/UDP traffic is sent to the AWG.
Wireshark capture shows that pressing Test generates only mDNS and NTP packets from the oscilloscope, with no packets sent to the AWG IP.

Reproduction steps:
   In the Bode configuration interface
   Enter the AWG LAN IP in SDS800X HD.
   Press Test for LAN to AWG IP Connectivity Check.
   No network traffic is generated to the IP from the AWG, and sometimes the UI freezes.

Attempts made:
   Full reboot
   Factory reset
   Security Erase
   Firmware update to 1.6.5

Result: no effect, issue persists.

Questions:
Is there a procedure to fully reset network settings or to restore partitions preserving critical files for SDS800X HD?

Notes:
PC communication with FY6900 and SDS800X HD over LAN works fine. The problem lies between SDS800X HD and FY6900 in the Bode interface.

I sincerely appreciate your support!

Why should a Siglent DSO support some other brand AWG ? 

The issue is that no test packets are transmitted. I do not have a Siglent AWG; however, it cannot function if it does not attempt to test the connection.

[Martin72]

Why should a Siglent DSO support some other brand AWG ? 

Think about it...
I think it would be a big plus and an additional incentive to buy if third-party AWGs were supported.
Another company is already thinking about it, so let's see who's faster.

[crysti]

Somewhere there is a protection; At first it worked, I think a few dozens of times, this is what the packages transmitted initially, when the test button works. I try to make a troubleshooter to see where the connection problem is in the ESP-01 software.

[bateau020]

a couple of things to try/investigate:
* is the esp or the scope on WiFi with guest isolation?
* are the esp or the scope in separate VLANs where UDP cannot cross?
* can you see if the scope can connect to your PC when it's running https://github.com/hb020/sds1004x_bode ?

[crysti]

a couple of things to try/investigate:
* is the esp or the scope on WiFi with guest isolation?
* are the esp or the scope in separate VLANs where UDP cannot cross?
* can you see if the scope can connect to your PC when it's running https://github.com/hb020/sds1004x_bode ?

* The DSO and the PC are on LAN, and the ESP is on Wi-Fi connected to a router configured as an Access Point (AP). Initially, when pressing the Test button, packet transmission worked and the ESP received the packets.

* It does not appear to be a connectivity issue. I verified that all devices can see each other on the network

* Thank you for the suggestion! I will try this option as well, but I don’t expect it to work, as the DSO no longer generates any network traffic on Test button press.

I will report back after testing with the PC as an intermediary.

[Performa01]

I think it would be a big plus and an additional incentive to buy if third-party AWGs were supported.
Another company is already thinking about it, so let's see who's faster.

Could it be that this "other company" is someone who doesn't even offer their own AWGs (apart from a limited-performance option for their DSO)?

[tautech]

Why should a Siglent DSO support some other brand AWG ? 

Think about it...
I think it would be a big plus and an additional incentive to buy if third-party AWGs were supported.
Another company is already thinking about it, so let's see who's faster.

Nah, unconvinced. 

It's not like Bode plot/FRA is anything new but to get all the fruits from Siglent FRA why should they even consider all the work to support any AWG's but their own ? 
Additional sales of their AWG's supports further development of their product range of which we all benefit more greatly from than prostituting themselves to support other products. 

For those that must have Bode plot/FRA on the cheap use Daves method:

[crysti]

a couple of things to try/investigate:
* is the esp or the scope on WiFi with guest isolation?
* are the esp or the scope in separate VLANs where UDP cannot cross?
* can you see if the scope can connect to your PC when it's running https://github.com/hb020/sds1004x_bode ?

Thanks for the information! When I changed the IP address it started working. Now I use it with a PC, but I will try to do it on WiFi. It worked OK for a few tests, now it started to freeze the oscilloscope interface again, and restarted itself

[2N3055]

a couple of things to try/investigate:
* is the esp or the scope on WiFi with guest isolation?
* are the esp or the scope in separate VLANs where UDP cannot cross?
* can you see if the scope can connect to your PC when it's running https://github.com/hb020/sds1004x_bode ?

Thanks for the information! When I changed the IP address it started working. Now I use it with a PC, but I will try to do it on WiFi. It worked OK for a few tests, now it started to freeze the oscilloscope interface again, and restarted itself

Can you guys take this conversation to that other topic about use of 3rd party AWG with Siglent Bode plot?
It has no place here.
Please?

[crysti]

a couple of things to try/investigate:
* is the esp or the scope on WiFi with guest isolation?
* are the esp or the scope in separate VLANs where UDP cannot cross?
* can you see if the scope can connect to your PC when it's running https://github.com/hb020/sds1004x_bode ?

Thanks for the information! When I changed the IP address it started working. Now I use it with a PC, but I will try to do it on WiFi. It worked OK for a few tests, now it started to freeze the oscilloscope interface again, and restarted itself

Can you guys take this conversation to that other topic about use of 3rd party AWG with Siglent Bode plot?
It has no place here.
Please?

My issue is not related to the AWG or the Bode function, but to the SDS800X HD interface freezing when configuring LAN for Bode. I want to know how I can reset or reimage all partitions on the SDS800X HD, because I don’t think this is a common issue with this model.
From what I’ve seen, it has a partition/filesystem that remains intact through reset and firmware upgrades. Can this partition be restored, or at least can an fsck be run to verify its integrity?

[2N3055]

a couple of things to try/investigate:
* is the esp or the scope on WiFi with guest isolation?
* are the esp or the scope in separate VLANs where UDP cannot cross?
* can you see if the scope can connect to your PC when it's running https://github.com/hb020/sds1004x_bode ?

Thanks for the information! When I changed the IP address it started working. Now I use it with a PC, but I will try to do it on WiFi. It worked OK for a few tests, now it started to freeze the oscilloscope interface again, and restarted itself

Can you guys take this conversation to that other topic about use of 3rd party AWG with Siglent Bode plot?
It has no place here.
Please?

My issue is not related to the AWG or the Bode function, but to the SDS800X HD interface freezing when configuring LAN for Bode. I want to know how I can reset or reimage all partitions on the SDS800X HD, because I don’t think this is a common issue with this model.

No, your issue is SDS800xHD not talking to your concoction. Take it to appropriate topic.
Maybe someone there can help you.
Maybe someone of us here will try to help you but please not here. Play nice with other kids.

If you have same problem with Siglent AWG, then it is here you report.
That is how we organize things to be at least partially usable.

Why is my lawnmower not recognized by my scope is a project on it's own. And not part of any support by Siglent in any way.

And your conclusion is that you want to mess with SDS800xHD filesystem?
Unless you already have been in a scope's Linux and you destroyed something inside I assure you that your reasoning is non causal. If you messed with internal Linux say so so we can try and help.

But if there was suspicion to FW being funny somehow, just reapply newest FW and that is it.
That does all you need in that regard.

[MathWizard]

So I did a singleshot at 100ms/div, and I'm measuring the decay speed of a motor, by typing a whole lot of Time@Max times, of repetitive voltage spikes as it rotates. But I have to scroll and zoom to each peak.

So how can I export that data to csv, from there I can import it into openoffice and do data analysis in there.

Or in general if you want to save your singleshot data, is that in the scope menu somewhere, or w/ EasyView ?

Also when I change horizontal position, the exact center line time is displayed on screen for a moment, but then goes away. And the time given in the TimeBase box, is not very precise. I didn't see a Measure function that would display time at say the center line, like when scrolling on saved data.

Is there one for that, or do you fix the X-axis Cursor in place on screen and just read from that ? Thanks

[tautech]

So I did a singleshot at 100ms/div, and I'm measuring the decay speed of a motor, by typing a whole lot of Time@Max times, of repetitive voltage spikes as it rotates. But I have to scroll and zoom to each peak.

Or you can use touch to move or magnify.

So how can I export that data to csv, from there I can import it into openoffice and do data analysis in there.

Insead I would use the smaller BIN format which saves much faster and later use the BIN to CSV tool on a PC to convert it to CSV for post processing. You can download this tool from the Save menu in Utility.

Or in general if you want to save your singleshot data, is that in the scope menu somewhere, or w/ EasyView ?

Just select the filetype you need to save and press Save.

Also when I change horizontal position, the exact center line time is displayed on screen for a moment, but then goes away. And the time given in the TimeBase box, is not very precise. I didn't see a Measure function that would display time at say the center line, like when scrolling on saved data.

Is there one for that, or do you fix the X-axis Cursor in place on screen and just read from that ? Thanks

The H Pos setting always remains visible in the Timebase tab.

[kmoonwalker]

I just made a quick check of SDS814x HD and my Dell 636 wireless keybo and mice seems to work with it pretty good.

Would be nice to have a current side menu opened after hitting tab button thou.

For SDS800X HD ?
Can you take this to this thread and expand on this please ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

I think this could be useful for all models that can be controlled with external mice an keybo.

At least for me as I am considered old school controlling windows from keybo etc and like to have such features as habit on other equipment.
Open yourself any windows internal app that is made this way and you will see tha you can switch many things with ALT-TAB and TAB and arrows.
For me it feels a bit odd if folks designing things nowadays are not using some pretty common ways of making things - but perhaps it is just me

[tautech]

I just made a quick check of SDS814x HD and my Dell 636 wireless keybo and mice seems to work with it pretty good.

Would be nice to have a current side menu opened after hitting tab button thou.

For SDS800X HD ?
Can you take this to this thread and expand on this please ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

I think this could be useful for all models that can be controlled with external mice an keybo.

At least for me as I am considered old school controlling windows from keybo etc and like to have such features as habit on other equipment.
Open yourself any windows internal app that is made this way and you will see tha you can switch many things with ALT-TAB and TAB and arrows.
For me it feels a bit odd if folks designing things nowadays are not using some pretty common ways of making things - but perhaps it is just me

New ideas are good.

Let's explore yours, for a start we have an instrument that has a UI that supports physical controls, touch/mouse and webserver that all operate in near the same way as all other modern Siglent DSO's including and particularly the headless L models.
Currently we can take any model and operate it in the same way however if PC OS keyboard buttons were added to the UI it would complicate webserver usage as many of our users use the webserver or drive the scope entirely with a mouse connected to it.

Not to say enhancements/improvements cannot be made but we must think very carefully how they might be implemented.
Come up with a smart scheme tested with local and webserver control and certainly I can forward it for consideration.

[2N3055]

I just made a quick check of SDS814x HD and my Dell 636 wireless keybo and mice seems to work with it pretty good.

Would be nice to have a current side menu opened after hitting tab button thou.

For SDS800X HD ?
Can you take this to this thread and expand on this please ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/

I think this could be useful for all models that can be controlled with external mice an keybo.

At least for me as I am considered old school controlling windows from keybo etc and like to have such features as habit on other equipment.
Open yourself any windows internal app that is made this way and you will see tha you can switch many things with ALT-TAB and TAB and arrows.
For me it feels a bit odd if folks designing things nowadays are not using some pretty common ways of making things - but perhaps it is just me

First thing first that is Windows user expectation.
Second, Tab is used to jump from input box to input box. Nowhere it pops up a menu. There is a Menu button on the keyboard that pops up context menu.
Third, for Linux based systems this is not something that is native.

I am not against idea. Notion that you could connect keyboard and have wholesome Keyboard shortcuts scheme is not bad at all. But that needs to be thought out a bit, methinks.

[kmoonwalker]

it was just a hint and I am not binded to my preliminary statement about given key - treat it as an example
And I know there is a lot of things to improve here and there much more needing attention so perhaps in some time they will perhaps give us something more of usual "look and feel" UI user experience from other systems


BTW that habit of using keyboard is not from windows - I merely used an example that most of people would be able to replicate and yes menu would be perhaps more applicable but tab also is used to change the so called "focus" from one to another button. It is true it can also jump from one form input field to another as you said but there is way more to that

[tautech]

it was just a hint and I am not binded to my preliminary statement about given key - treat it as an example
And I know there is a lot of things to improve here and there much more needing attention so perhaps in some time they will perhaps give us something more of usual "look and feel" UI user experience from other systems

Why ?
Why should the UI follow what others might do ?
Why is one better than another or is it only beauty is in the eye of the beholder ?

Change for the sake of change is not good when it MUST work with all models in bench mode, mouse/keyboard use (L models for example) and in webserver mode.
Until some experience is gained with all these differing use types it is difficult to see the big picture.

Showing/hiding the active menu with a key stroke could be an improvement however one must still select a field to adjust by touch or mouse and if you are moving the mouse or finger to make a menu visible again there is very little advantage in having a keystroke to only open the menu.
The current UI showing all the important settings clearly in tabs and each tab offering to open its menu with a click/touch is also convenient without hiding any waveform information unless deep menus are selected.

Keep getting to know how your instrument works is the best advice I can offer.

[KungFuJosh]

Showing/hiding the active menu with a key stroke could be an improvement however one must still select a field to adjust by touch or mouse and if you are moving the mouse or finger to make a menu visible again there is very little advantage in having a keystroke to only open the menu.
The current UI showing all the important settings clearly in tabs and each tab offering to open its menu with a click/touch is also convenient without hiding any waveform information unless deep menus are selected.

Keep getting to know how your instrument works is the best advice I can offer.

It's a good and potentially simple idea:
Define keys for specific functions: 1. Show menus, 2. switch menus, 3. move through a specific menu, etc.

Those keys could be user defined with options to define them in the scope menu.

[kmoonwalker]

Keep getting to know how your instrument works is the best advice I can offer.

all was just an example but remember that usage should be a bit intuitive and this is what most of pro equipment here and there lacks
and even from same brand often two different appliances have totally different menu structure etc to make all even more confusing

you are dialing a number using a keypad on your phone not reinventing the wheel each time

But I agree to disagree - everything for perhaps a better outcome in future

[2N3055]

After so many years of hearing "it is easy" by people who don't have to make it I get allergic reaction when I hear it.
Nothing is easy or quick when done right. Except maybe really trivial fixes.

Fact that there is no shortcut mechanism whatsoever at present means exactly that. There is no mechanism to even grab a keyboard event that has to be treated differently than typing text.

Shortcuts also have scope. Ctrl-Alt-Del is global Win shortcut. You can be in any program or no program at all it will do the same thing. Alt-F will call Word file menu if you are editing text. If you are already in some dialog, it won't. CTRL-C will break a program in a command line. In Word it will copy selected text into clipboard, if no text is selected it won't do anything.

Just defining hierarchy of possibilities is a big job.

And after 10 seconds of idea was posted, a "simple addition" of fully customizable shortcut system was mentioned. Yeah, it should be easy...

Like I said.

Keyboard shortcuts are something to think about. If done right it could help people who use it with keyboard, so they can achieve some tasks faster.
So not a bad idea to think about. Just expectations should be realistic. This is far from most important thing to add. Not even necessary at all ,ever.
More like "it would be nice".  And not five minutes.

[KungFuJosh]

After so many years of hearing "it is easy" by people who don't have to make it I get allergic reaction when I hear it.
Nothing is easy or quick when done right. Except maybe really trivial fixes.

Fact that there is no shortcut mechanism whatsoever at present means exactly that. There is no mechanism to even grab a keyboard event that has to be treated differently than typing text.

Shortcuts also have scope. Ctrl-Alt-Del is global Win shortcut. You can be in any program or no program at all it will do the same thing. Alt-F will call Word file menu if you are editing text. If you are already in some dialog, it won't. CTRL-C will break a program in a command line. In Word it will copy selected text into clipboard, if no text is selected it won't do anything.

Just defining hierarchy of possibilities is a big job.

And after 10 seconds of idea was posted, a "simple addition" of fully customizable shortcut system was mentioned. Yeah, it should be easy...

Like I said.

Keyboard shortcuts are something to think about. If done right it could help people who use it with keyboard, so they can achieve some tasks faster.
So not a bad idea to think about. Just expectations should be realistic. This is far from most important thing to add. Not even necessary at all ,ever.
More like "it would be nice".  And not five minutes.

Still sounds easy. My wife hates when I say that too.

Seriously though, avoiding predefined system shortcuts should be obvious to the developers. The shortcut choices would more likely be simple keystrokes with an active listener option. Attached is the hotkey guide for the DAW software I use. For basic scope interaction, a fraction of that would be plenty.

Adding listeners is an interestesting subject (and brings up scope resource usage/availability, etc), but let's be honest and admit that it's far less complex work than most of what goes into designing a respectable oscilloscope.

[2N3055]

No it is NOT easy.

Only thing that exist now is CTRL-C, CTRL-X and CTRL-V for Copy, CUt and paste, and that only in currently selected text dialogs.
In File Manager, TAB moves between folder tree and folder content window.
That is it.
Anywhere else in scope app keyboard is not used except in text dialogs.

The whole subsistem needs to be made.
And as I said, there is a hierarchy to be thought up. And endpoints to call should be organized.
There is more to programming than just some code. Planning and designing is most time spent.

[mawyatt]

While using the Power Analysis Function within the SDS800X HD to show the relationships between Apparent, Real and Reactive (Imaginary) Power employing known loads to do comparisons we realized this PA Function might also allow measurement of the load.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-math-and-power-factor-not-adding-up/

Just as a fun experiment (this is NOT claiming to replace a LCR Meter) we decided to give a try utilizing the same setup shown in the link above.

A little algebra will show that:

Z = V^2/AP, where Z is the DUT Magnitude Impedance |R +-jX|, V is the voltage across DUT, and AP is the Apparent Power.

R = Z * Cos (Angle), where R is Real part of Z and Angle is the phase angle between the DUT voltage and current.

X = Z * Sin (Angle), where X is the Reactive (Imaginary) part of Z.

For a capacitive Z then:

C = 1/(2*pi*F*X), where F is the measurement frequency.

R = Z * Cos Angle

We did a couple sample DUTs as 22uF, 100uF and 220uF Electrolytic Capacitors @ 100Hz with results shown below compared to LCR Meter measurements {#} with IM3536:

22uF 200V      18.69uF 3.27Ω {18.82uF 3.31Ω}

100uF 160V    92.59uF 0.705Ω {94.24uF 0.688Ω}

220uF 25V     185.12uF 0.448Ω {193.13uF 0.414Ω}

Edit: Added a low Q axial 100mH inductor [ L = X/(2*pi*F) ]

100mH         110.52mH 396.6Ω {101.50mH 394.18Ω}

Anyway, we thought and interesting use of the DSO PA Function, and as always YMMV 

Best