Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

I would start simple. A great simple starting point would be a VTVM. They generally have a dual diode tube and a dual triode tube. And best of all it's useful in the lab. That 564 would probably overwhelm you, especially with the plug-in's. And as I mentioned you should have a plug-in extender. They do show up on Ebay once in a while and a quick check shows one for 560 series for the stupid price of $50.00 USD. IMHO that's robbery.

You're trying to say that $50 for a 560 series is way too much? Or way too cheap? What would you consider to be a good price for a 560 series, meaning a balance between being too cheap and too expensive?

He was not referring to the price of a 560 series scope as such,  but the price of an extender to help you trouble-shoot the 560 series plug-ins. 

[AaronLee]

I would start simple. A great simple starting point would be a VTVM. They generally have a dual diode tube and a dual triode tube. And best of all it's useful in the lab. That 564 would probably overwhelm you, especially with the plug-in's. And as I mentioned you should have a plug-in extender. They do show up on Ebay once in a while and a quick check shows one for 560 series for the stupid price of $50.00 USD. IMHO that's robbery.

You're trying to say that $50 for a 560 series is way too much? Or way too cheap? What would you consider to be a good price for a 560 series, meaning a balance between being too cheap and too expensive?

Ah, thanks. I didn't read it carefully enough.

He was not referring to the price of a 560 series scope as such,  but the price of an extender to help you trouble-shoot the 560 series plug-ins.

[xrunner]

However nothing suitable cosmetically.  Yes Xrunner you are right, it needs to look "factory" so as to look credible... otherwise the resulting appearance will do much more harm than good ! 

I got it right!

I mean the only reason I would like to replace the broken clip here and there is purely for aesthetic reasons nothing more. From a mechanical/functional perspective these broken clips have zero consequence, as by now the wiring harnesses are so stiff that they hardly need any support, it's not the clip holding the harnesses in place it's more like the other way around !

So I think the best course of action is to replace the broken one with identical ones from a donor scope, and if I can't find the correct size(s) that I need, might just super the two pieces of the broken ones back together again, for aesthetics.

Well I'm glad I met someone more anal retentive than I am.  I mean, if you went in and replaced all of the clips (so it all looks identical) with nice new plain white or black clamps it wouldn't be OK? I don't see how you can replace anything in the instrument with anything new (but a tad different looking) if your requirements are that stringent! 

But hey it's your baby you get to make the choices. 

[Robert763]

OK so it can do clear plastic, that's good to know.... the ridges are a no-no so, too ugly, defeats the purpose...

Maybe make a little mold instead, and and poor that same clear plastic the printer is using, by hand into the mold.

I could make a mold (metallic/ reusable) of the "unfolded" clip, the exterior part of it, which is what you get to see. That would make for a flat surface for the inner part of the clip, but it's probably what it is anyway and if not... well who cares as you don't get to see it anyway, and it would still be plenty functional.
Then I could to fold it back onto itself, to "close" it, give its final shape, I could just apply some gentle, controlled heat using my hot air station to soften it in the middle, just enough for it to want to bend into position.

Metallic mold don't know how to make... I guess once I have made the CAD model for it, I can get it done easily by a DIY/consumer grade CNC machine, or just get it done by a professional shop somewhere.

Yeah sounds like a lot of fun, a nice winter project...

The origininal Pclips were made from a flat plastic strip with beaded edge. This was heated, folded around a mandrel and the screw hole punched.
A reasonable copy could be made by running a heated thin wall plastic tube under a wheel to flatten it and then forming it round a rod.
 

[Vince]

However nothing suitable cosmetically.  Yes Xrunner you are right, it needs to look "factory" so as to look credible... otherwise the resulting appearance will do much more harm than good ! 

I got it right!

OK you get a cookie !

Well I'm glad I met someone more anal retentive than I am.  I mean, if you went in and replaced all of the clips (so it all looks identical) with nice new plain white or black clamps it wouldn't be OK? I don't see how you can replace anything in the instrument with anything new (but a tad different looking) if your requirements are that stringent! 

Nope, again the only reason to replace the 2 or 3 broken clips would be purely for aesthetics and nothing else. Replacing 100% of the clips with some horrible looking ones just to get rid of the few broken ones, makes zero aesthetic sense at all to me ?!

I have no dogma about keeping the thing 100% original though, it's on a case by case basis... it just so happens that in this particular case I find that keeping a few broken clips has zero functional impact and extremely marginal negative aesthetic impact. So that means if I replace all teh clips with something that does look right, it will do an awful lot more harm than good ! But of course if the clips were all broken and were mandatory for the operation of the instrument, well of course I would be willing to compromise !   I am just in the fortunate position here, that I do not have to compromise. Either I can find suitable replacement... or I keep it as is.

But in other areas I will have to compromise... Like say for example the electrolytic can caps ! The new ones obviously look nothing like the old ones, but no choice if I want the scope to live long and perform at its best. So I got my head around the fact that I will have to live with these modern caps in the instrument... because it's for its good. It's an instrument not a decoration, so I want to it to work 100% and work as perfectly and can be, or else no point owning it really ! 
So I compromised in the following way : I have decided to solder leave the original can caps in place( taking them out of circuit of course...)  and solder the new caps on the underside of the deck. This way when you pop the covers you it still look original. Ideally I would restuff the old cans, but it takes work and equipment to do a job I would call acceptable, and I am not equipped just yet... but might be at some point. So it's still possible I might revisit the 575 later to removed the new caps and stuff them into the old cans...  However it's a lot of work for very little aesthetic gain, since you can see the new caps, below the deck.

Other area I am willing to compromise, is repainting the cabinet/covers. It will be impossible to get teh perfect blue, have it spot on. Even if I take a spectrometer to analyze the paint of my type 310A which is pretty much NIB, hence I could use a "reference" for what the Tek blue might have been like out of the factory.... it's still not be 100%.  So I have already decided not to go too far with this.  As long as I cna mix some blue paint that look "credible" enough to my eyes, I will be happy. I have 20 Tek scopes and not two of them have the same same of blue anyway ! They all have had different lives...
So I will just try match my pristine 310A as close I can, and that will be it...
Went to my local Tollens Pro paint shop yesterday to pick up some pain. I asked them about mixing paint. They said they don't have a spectrometer, but they have a complete/comprehensive "RAL" colour book and their machine can do those. So I could bring a cover from my 310A and see if there is a RAL colour that's good enough. If not yeah, might bring the cover to car body shop for them to stick their spectrometer on it and repaint my crusty covers for me.

[Vince]

The origininal Pclips were made from a flat plastic strip with beaded edge. This was heated, folded around a mandrel and the screw hole punched.
A reasonable copy could be made by running a heated thin wall plastic tube under a wheel to flatten it and then forming it round a rod.

Hmmm, more ideas ! 

Yeah it sounds cool making new clips ! I don't think even Carlson went that far when restoring his old Tek scopes ! 

[Robert763]

I would start simple. A great simple starting point would be a VTVM. They generally have a dual diode tube and a dual triode tube. And best of all it's useful in the lab. That 564 would probably overwhelm you, especially with the plug-in's. And as I mentioned you should have a plug-in extender. They do show up on Ebay once in a while and a quick check shows one for 560 series for the stupid price of $50.00 USD. IMHO that's robbery.

You're trying to say that $50 for a 560 series is way too much? Or way too cheap? What would you consider to be a good price for a 560 series, meaning a balance between being too cheap and too expensive?

Ah, thanks. I didn't read it carefully enough.

He was not referring to the price of a 560 series scope as such,  but the price of an extender to help you trouble-shoot the 560 series plug-ins.

$50 is cheap compared to UK prices £130 ($175 US)
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194371064760

[xrunner]

The origininal Pclips were made from a flat plastic strip with beaded edge. This was heated, folded around a mandrel and the screw hole punched.
A reasonable copy could be made by running a heated thin wall plastic tube under a wheel to flatten it and then forming it round a rod.

Hmmm, more ideas ! 

Yeah it sounds cool making new clips ! I don't think even Carlson went that far when restoring his old Tek scopes ! 

Now we're talking! OK Vince now you have no excuse. 

[mnementh]

No you muppet the less DEAD the better. The works out to 25,000 less Canadians in the ground over the last year and a bit just to make it clear. And in the case of the USA that would be 650,000 less DEAD.

No one on the North American continent is in any place to lecture or give advice on lockdowns effectiveness. Yep we are over them but 'draconian' is complete frogshit!

While I'm pleased that you can claim such numbers, it is my understanding that a large part of that difference with the rest of the world is the same as why you guys got every wave later than everyone else: geography vs population density.

Your government was, if anything, slower in implementing lockdowns that were absolutely necessary in the "western world" due to higher density in cities as well as higher density of cities, and a much larger number of travelers from ground zero regions, therefor a much broader interface for disease transmission from day one.

Also, that lower population density means that "draconian lockdowns" have a lot less economic and political repercussions, as much more of your population is already closer to "self-sufficient" and/or just plain crusty old bastards like me who hate having neighbors and already practice antisocial distancing anyways. 

mnem
vote draconian.

[mnementh]

Hunt for plastic P clips.

Yea P clamps, cable clamps - all over Ebay. I have a whole box full of different sizes like those but white.

Vince - I know how picky you are  They ain't going to be exactly the same design, they ain't going to be exactly the same color. You have to decide how important that will be.

Thanks people. P clip it's called then... indeed lots of relevant matches on the web !

However nothing suitable cosmetically.  Yes Xrunner you are right, it needs to look "factory" so as to look credible... otherwise the resulting appearance will do much more harm than good ! 
I mean the only reason I would like to replace the broken clip here and there is purely for aesthetic reasons nothing more. From a mechanical/functional perspective these broken clips have zero consequence, as by now the wiring harnesses are so stiff that they hardly need any support, it's not the clip holding the harnesses in place it's more like the other way around !

So I think the best course of action is to replace the broken one with identical ones from a donor scope, and if I can't find the correct size(s) that I need, might just super the two pieces of the broken ones back together again, for aesthetics.  And BTW I don't understand the difference between aesthetics and cosmetics.... so just using the words interchangeably sorry !    I am sure you will get the message anyway, you are a clever bunch.

Yeah, a word of warning: Do not use CA cyanoacrylate adhesive/Super Glue) on any visible plastic, especially transparent/translucent plastic. You will make it look 1000x worse than the existing cracked plastic.

At best it will make an ugly visible seam with a visible bead of adhesive, and at worst it can frost the entire bit of plastic as well as surrounding materials with CA vapor.   

It's one thing to risk it where it's needed for mechanical strength; if you're just fixing it for aesthetic reasons, better to just live with the cracked plastic.

mnem
*veteran of a thousand psychic wars equipment renovations*

[Zucca]

More motivation to look at getting a 3DP.  Not yet; got something else to pay for shortly...

3DP in 2021 is a must, but I never waste so much time with some money to chase perfection... it is a strange rabbit hole...

[mnementh]

Cosmetics refers to the things that alter the appearance of something without necessarily affecting the function, aesthetics refers to the way the cosmetics fit in (or otherwise) with the general style and/or appearance of the object in question.

OK thanks. So cosmetics is just a down to the earth way of describing what state/condition something is in, hence is objective, whereas the aesthetics refers to the "artistic" aspect of an object, the beauty of it, which is irrational, subjective.

So to sum it up I guess I could say that my 575 has beautiful aesthetics but very poor cosmetics inside out ?! 

In this context:

Cosmetic is pretty objective: it means something that is purely a matter of appearance; ie a knob that cracked or missing a cap but still works as it should. It works, but is not as it came from the MFR.

Aesthetics... are highly subjective, but it all boils down to how much something bugs you.

A good example is a brand-new signal generator we were talking aboot a while back; it came with these rubber ears that protruded forward from the case a good 20-30mm to surround the front  bezel and protect the face & BNCs. Owner of said TE decided he loathed the aesthetics of the design; and while I personally do agree with that, I found the appearance after he very carefully sliced those ears off to be even worse.

Meanwhile, there is a certain family of HP TE and PSUs which come with knobs that have a aluminum cap which always falls off, exposing a ugly interior with overmolded brass insert.  It is pretty universally accepted in this crowd that this is an eyesore, but not nearly as important as whether the gear works, especially as we all know that those caps always fall off and get lost. When a bit of such TE comes up that has those knobs intact, we consider it a very lucky score.

However, octogenarian stripper is a violation of cosmetic, aesthetic and engineering laws... and is in fact a crime against humanity. Please, please never redistribute said evil... every time you do, Murphy eats a kitten.

mnem

[beanflying]

No you muppet the less DEAD the better. The works out to 25,000 less Canadians in the ground over the last year and a bit just to make it clear. And in the case of the USA that would be 650,000 less DEAD.

No one on the North American continent is in any place to lecture or give advice on lockdowns effectiveness. Yep we are over them but 'draconian' is complete frogshit!

While I'm pleased that you can claim such numbers, it is my understanding that a large part of that difference with the rest of the world is the same as why you guys got every wave later than everyone else: geography vs population density.

Your government was, if anything, slower in implementing lockdowns that were absolutely necessary in the "western world" due to higher density in cities as well as higher density of cities, and a much larger number of travelers from ground zero regions, therefor a much broader interface for disease transmission from day one.

Also, that lower population density means that "draconian lockdowns" have a lot less economic and political repercussions, as much more of your population is already closer to "self-sufficient" and/or just plain crusty old bastards like me who hate having neighbors and already practice antisocial distancing anyways. 

mnem
vote draconian.

Stop spouting NON FACTUAL crap AGAIN as the 'facts you made up' to suit your  argument.

Canada and Australia are not that different in size and even populations. Population Densities and city sizes are comparable so don't make excuses for worse outcomes from less strict health measures taken by Canada. Bottom line is Canada screwed up worse than us.

We had initial cases in Oz at the same time as Canada and most of the world but acted very differently and locked down hard with the first lot in March 2020 that brought us a lot of time. So again YOU ARE WRONG!

'Self Sufficient' what a load of additional crap our Cities where a large percentage of the problems with COVID are are no different to Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal et al we like those cities are nothing close to self sufficient. We don't grow and shoot our own hillbilly style so don't stereotype the country that way because it just isn't close to any truth. For example our 5 largest cities are around 15 million and Canada's about the same without splitting hairs.

The bit our Federal Farce got wrong that has led to this current lot is Vaccine shortages they threw all the eggs into AstraZeneca and way way under ordered the rest of the options. We went into the last steep rise in Delta cases with a population around 30% vaccinated unlike a lot of other Western Countries and a poor supply coming for the rest of us until about now through November.

On the economic front we are forecast to get back within 1% of pre covid unemployment early next year and we have been back in growth from last year so again you have no idea about what you are typing. We currently have a glut of jobs in Regional and Rural areas that are vacant for lack of applicants.

[mnementh]

Wow bean... I get you're under a lot of stress, but nothing I said deserved that.

Seriously; take a fucking chill pill.

mnem
 

[med6753]

See what I mean? The last few days in this thread were great. On subject matter with some wanderings off topic, but right back on topic. Everyone was happy with unicorns and rainbows.

As soon as anything remotely politics comes up out come the claws and right down the shitter. So now we'll have to endure mea culpa's and WTF's back and forth until all egos are satisfied.     

Just stop. 

[mnementh]

Hunt for plastic P clips.

Yea P clamps, cable clamps - all over Ebay. I have a whole box full of different sizes like those but white.

Vince - I know how picky you are  They ain't going to be exactly the same design, they ain't going to be exactly the same color. You have to decide how important that will be.

Thanks people. P clip it's called then... indeed lots of relevant matches on the web !

However nothing suitable cosmetically.  Yes Xrunner you are right, it needs to look "factory" so as to look credible... otherwise the resulting appearance will do much more harm than good ! 
I mean the only reason I would like to replace the broken clip here and there is purely for aesthetic reasons nothing more. From a mechanical/functional perspective these broken clips have zero consequence, as by now the wiring harnesses are so stiff that they hardly need any support, it's not the clip holding the harnesses in place it's more like the other way around !

So I think the best course of action is to replace the broken one with identical ones from a donor scope, and if I can't find the correct size(s) that I need, might just super the two pieces of the broken ones back together again, for aesthetics.  And BTW I don't understand the difference between aesthetics and cosmetics.... so just using the words interchangeably sorry !    I am sure you will get the message anyway, you are a clever bunch.

The original P clips will break just by looking at them and I doubt you'll be able to harvest very many good ones. I break them all the time and if necessary I'll use a cable tie in it's place or if the wiring harness is secure without any replacement I'll just leave it. 

This is also why some of us have 3D printers and 3-4 minutes of CAD time 

Yeah... Vince already said the aesthetics are important here... he wants the look of the OEM crystal clear plastic p-clips, otherwise he'd just buy a baggie of the currently available nylon ones.

mnem
 

[xrunner]

See what I mean? The last few days in this thread were great. On subject matter with some wanderings off topic, but right back on topic. Everyone was happy with unicorns an rainbows.

As soon as anything remotely politics comes up out come the claws and right down the shitter. So now we'll have to endure mea culpa's and WTF's back and forth until all egos are satisfied.     

Just stop. 

Totally agree. Stop wit the politics this is supposed to be for TEA enjoyment. I'm just about ready to give up on this thread.

[beanflying]

Then why make up non factual crap to defend poor performance of your adopted country and then be surprised when you get a response! You were so far away from any semblance of the truth and fact it was warranted.

So its you that needs to take that FUCKING chill pill and consider what you type and before you hit the key to post more

As to other peanuts COVID is NOT POLITICS it is public health!

[med6753]

As to other peanuts COVID is NOT POLITICS it is public health!

It's both forever intertwined which makes it a hot and contentious subject which can clearly be seen here.   

[xrunner]

As to other peanuts COVID is NOT POLITICS it is public health!

Not anymore ..

STOP!

[mnementh]

The origininal Pclips were made from a flat plastic strip with beaded edge. This was heated, folded around a mandrel and the screw hole punched.
A reasonable copy could be made by running a heated thin wall plastic tube under a wheel to flatten it and then forming it round a rod.

Hmmm, more ideas ! 

Yeah it sounds cool making new clips ! I don't think even Carlson went that far when restoring his old Tek scopes ! 

   

Custom P-clips made from scrap blister-pack plastic heat-formed around the body of a Sharpie. I'll let you figure out how to make the bead.

mnem
 

[Cerebus]

Then why make up non factual crap to defend poor performance of your adopted country and then be surprised when you get a response! You were so far away from any semblance of the truth and fact it was warranted.

So its you that needs to take that FUCKING chill pill and consider what you type and before you hit the key to post more

As to other peanuts COVID is NOT POLITICS it is public health

It started because you took exception to 25 CPS using the adjective "draconian" in a perfectly innocuous non-political post asking an innocent question and you overeacted and made it political by responding with an uncalled for "us and them" reply criticising both 25 CPS and Canada. Dial it back several notches please.

[beanflying]

It's both forever intertwined which makes it a hot and contentious subject which can clearly be seen here.

Not anymore ..

STOP!

That is YOUR opinion and you are entitled to that and given your country of residence it is way more so than elsewhere on this rock.

My CHOICE to correct grossly inaccurate statements made about THIS country is well within my rights as a member of this forum and it is not either of your places to dictate otherwise.

[mnementh]

Then why make up non factual crap to defend poor performance of your adopted country and then be surprised when you get a response! You were so far away from any semblance of the truth and fact it was warranted.

So its you that needs to take that FUCKING chill pill and consider what you type and before you hit the key to post more

As to other peanuts COVID is NOT POLITICS it is public health!

Completely inappropriate response level, that's what. 

You responded as if there were some form of attack, and as if you had been trolled repeatedly, rather than  just something you disagree with.

I did not make this up; it is literally one of the things the talking heads were gibbering on aboot all last week. Or was it the week before? Whether they were right or wrong is immaterial here; I just wanted to talk aboot it, not start a fucking fight.

This isn't the first time in recent memory you've responded immediately with an inappropriate level of vitriol to something posted in here or elsewhere by myself or other people; it's becoming a visible pattern, buddy. Not just me, either. Others have noticed.

We love ya, we want you here, but we want the fun, cynical, dirty-minded old bean... not getting our heads ripped off right out he gate for daring to post something you don't agree with.

Cheers,

mnem
 

[xrunner]

My CHOICE to correct grossly inaccurate statements made about THIS country is well within my rights as a member of this forum and it is not either of your places to dictate otherwise.

Sure you can do that, and I can't stop you, But I can exercise MY right to stop posting in this thread, and that is my right to counter your right. So if you don't care for me here, then keep it up and I'll go elsewhere in this forum (not that it matters to anyone else).

So what'll it be Bean?