Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

"Proof please!" is just internet garble for "I can't be arsed to do my own research to refute you."   

mnem
I am not my pants. No, I am not your pants either.

I'm inclined to disagree. The internet is full of people claiming all sorts of things without a shred of evidence. The only valid response to that is "proof please!" Generally they will make a fuss but never provide any proof. We should remember that most people haven't been brought up with the scientific method and that this is evident when discussing matters on the web.

*YAWWWWWNNNN*  Nice try. I'm not making claims; I'm passing along reports I felt were well-founded enough to be worth repeating.

Not gonna get sucked in. Do a little Guugle-fu; you'll find the reports. Not my job; it's your home. If you don't care enough to find out the truth for yourself, why should I?

mnem
*Back out into my own little hell*

[mnementh]

DP832 three notable things with these I've seen:

1. Watching Dave's blow up on Youtube.
2. There was a thread on here where one was rattling on receipt and didn't work properly after the rattling was fixed. Overheating since.
3. Someone down the amateur radio club bought one and it blew a MOSFET out after running near full load for about 30 minutes testing a transmitter into a dummy load with both channels in parallel 

But it's half the price of Keysight.

Also the number buttons - wtf? Did Sony have a hand in that design?

SUCKERRRRR!!!   You let him whinge you into doing his research for him. I thought you had a healthier cynicism than that, bd. 

mnem
"There's one born every minute; and two on the hour." ~grand-dad

[bd139]

Fail

TBH it's probably the best bang for the buck out there. Please note that I am super-duper critical. I hate everything

[Mr. Scram]

*YAWWWWWNNNN*  Nice try. I'm not making claims; I'm passing along reports I felt were well-founded enough to be worth repeating.

Not gonna get sucked in. Do a little Guugle-fu; you'll find the reports. Not my job; it's your home. If you don't care enough to find out the truth for yourself, why should I?

mnem
*Back out into my own little hell*

You've got that backwards. If you don't care enough about your argument to post sources, why would anyone care enough to believe or even read it? The internet is full of idiots posting the most unlikely stories without any sources. He who claims, proves. The rest is just noise. There are too many baseless opinions and fantasies out there to take note of them.

I'm not calling you an idiot, mind.

[Mr. Scram]

DP832 three notable things with these I've seen:

1. Watching Dave's blow up on Youtube.
2. There was a thread on here where one was rattling on receipt and didn't work properly after the rattling was fixed. Overheating since.
3. Someone down the amateur radio club bought one and it blew a MOSFET out after running near full load for about 30 minutes testing a transmitter into a dummy load with both channels in parallel 

But it's half the price of Keysight.

Also the number buttons - wtf? Did Sony have a hand in that design?

Somehow the recent Rigol products have failed to impress me. The DP832 has had various issues and the load hasn't been much better. They're not terrible, they're just not really good. Maybe using my current power source isn't such a bad idea and I'll just stick a multimeter next to it for "remote sensing." It's all fed back to the same computer anyway.

[PA0PBZ]

my "Imperium Explodium" never let me down. Pyrotechnic examples, please !

Exactly, I bought one second handed very lightly used for about 50% of the new price and I'm very happy with it. As long as you remember the strange ground connection it is perfectly fine to use. And if you forget about that I guess the pyrotechnics will remind you 

[mnementh]

*YAWWWWWNNNN*  Nice try. I'm not making claims; I'm passing along reports I felt were well-founded enough to be worth repeating.

Not gonna get sucked in. Do a little Guugle-fu; you'll find the reports. Not my job; it's your home. If you don't care enough to find out the truth for yourself, why should I?

mnem
*Back out into my own little hell*

You've got that backwards. If you don't care enough about your argument to post sources, why would anyone care enough to believe or even read it? The internet is full of idiots posting the most unlikely stories without any sources. He who claims, proves. The rest is just noise. There are too many baseless opinions and fantasies out there to take note of them.

I'm not calling you an idiot, mind.

Yeah... no. YOU have it backwards. Same argument, inverted. Same scientific method, only OP is expecting me to spoon-feed him information he can find himself with a few minutes of research.

He who CARES researches. PERIOD. This has ALWAYS been the case in the REAL WORLD, in ANY endeavor.

I've already done MY RESEARCH. I don't feel obligated to do it AGAIN for somebody else.

You don't have the right to expect that I do so just because we're conversing on an internet forum; you don't have the right to expect ANYTHING. Of ANYONE.

Thanks for playing.

mnem
This is the real world. OF COURSE there will be a test.
* Edited to reduce unintended juvenile aggro tone

[Wolfgang]

Hi,

I've seen Dave's teardown video as well. What a blunder ! But I also saw the next video where Dave showed that Rigol has fixed the bugs and its OK now.
After this (and a while to be on the safe side) I bought mine (4 units so far). They all still work since day one.

So, where is the pyrotechnics for the improved versions ?

[Cerebus]

Actually that is precisely what is in Roundup. Glyphosates are a synthetic derivative of agent orange...

Er, no. Agent Orange was a mixture of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, structures thus:

2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid



2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid



Whereas glyphosate (N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine) looks like this:



No relation except that Agent Orange and glyphosate are both herbicides.

Glyphosate works by by competitively inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase blocking the Shikimate pathway which is a fundamental biochemical pathway in plants.

2,4-D is a synthetic auxin, a plant growth hormone, driving the plant into growth overdrive and killing it thusly. 2,4,5-T is another synthetic auxin with a similar effect to 2,4-D.

[Housedad]

Actually, About the only reason I am trying it is that a seller on Ebay has a scanned copy of the manual plus maintenance and schematics on a CD.    I bought that right after.

I'll be happy to let you know with pics.   Only God knows if I'll be able to get it to work with my mediocre skills, though.  It uses a N connector for the output.  Not really familiar with that connector.

Yea an N connector is typical for equipoment for use at frequencies into the GHz range. Ideally you would have cable to connect to the N connector as well ... but often people will just put an N to UHF or BNC adapter on it and call it a day.

It may actually work though. If the seller does not specifically know all functions work they aren't supposed to list it as "used" because that means that it is not new but all functions work as they are supposed to. So to avoid a return they will list it as "for parts or not working". So I would say there's a good chance it works OK.

Thanks for the info.  I've been reading about the connector on the net.   I'll probably get an adapter like that too, for now. 
I was thinking that it might be something like what you say about it being listed that way.  The seller sells all kinds of things, has a fairly low sell count (<700) and is named crazypets1. I doubt they know more than how to turn it on.  It had just been listed for a few hours.  They took a best offer on it for 180.  I always wondered about that .  Now I know why.  Thanks for the information. 

[Mr. Scram]

Yeah... no. YOU have it backwards. Same argument, inverted. Same scientific method, only OP is expecting me to spoon-feed him information he can find himself with a few minutes of research.

He who CARES researches. PERIOD. This has ALWAYS been the case in the REAL WORLD, in ANY endeavor.

I've already done MY RESEARCH. I don't feel obligated to do it AGAIN for somebody else.

You don't have the right to expect that I do so just because we're conversing on an internet forum; you don't have the right to expect ANYTHING. Of ANYONE.

Thanks for playing.

mnem
This is the real world. OF COURSE there will be a test.
* Edited to reduce unintended juvenile aggro tone

That all sounds a lot like the Bambluvian invasion of Snorbistan in 2009. You can find more on that on Google.

[mnementh]

Fail

TBH it's probably the best bang for the buck out there. Please note that I am super-duper critical. I hate everything

It reminds me of a first-gen Sirius radio; I hated the red BL and stupid button config on those too. At least the numbers on them were 2 straight rows, I'd have preferred the usual 3x4 phone/calc pattern, sure, but that circle of digits on the DP832 is just plain counter-intuitive. 

Honestly, I'd rather take a $140 gamble on the HP 6642A I linked earlier than even half-price on that Rigol. I KNOW it would cost me some DUT sooner or later.

mnem
*Returning to the latest installment of mnem the TinkerDwagon and the Air-Conditioning of DOOM*

[mnementh]

Yeah... no. YOU have it backwards. Same argument, inverted. Same scientific method, only OP is expecting me to spoon-feed him information he can find himself with a few minutes of research.

He who CARES researches. PERIOD. This has ALWAYS been the case in the REAL WORLD, in ANY endeavor.

I've already done MY RESEARCH. I don't feel obligated to do it AGAIN for somebody else.

You don't have the right to expect that I do so just because we're conversing on an internet forum; you don't have the right to expect ANYTHING. Of ANYONE.

Thanks for playing.

mnem
This is the real world. OF COURSE there will be a test.
* Edited to reduce unintended juvenile aggro tone

That all sounds a lot like the Bambluvian invasion of Snorbistan in 2009. You can find more on that on Google.

No you can't. I took the 30 seconds, and there is an amazing dearth of results on both the entire phrase and every keyword in it.

Congratulations! That is actually quite the accomplishment; Guurgle couldn't even find any alternate results by guessing! 

mnem
I REALLY don't want to go back out there.

[Mr. Scram]

No you can't. I took the 30 seconds, and there is an amazing dearth of results on both the entire phrase and every keyword in it.

Congratulations! That is actually quite the accomplishment; Guurgle couldn't even find any alternate results by guessing! 

mnem
I REALLY don't want to go back out there.

You can't? Jeez, I can't be doing everyone's homework around here. 

[bd139]

Hi,

I've seen Dave's teardown video as well. What a blunder ! But I also saw the next video where Dave showed that Rigol has fixed the bugs and its OK now.
After this (and a while to be on the safe side) I bought mine (4 units so far). They all still work since day one.

So, where is the pyrotechnics for the improved versions ?

The problem is actually “how do I ensure I don’t get a compromised one from the supply chain”.

Fail

TBH it's probably the best bang for the buck out there. Please note that I am super-duper critical. I hate everything

It reminds me of a first-gen Sirius radio; I hated the red BL and stupid button config on those too. At least the numbers on them were 2 straight rows, I'd have preferred the usual 3x4 phone/calc pattern, sure, but that circle of digits on the DP832 is just plain counter-intuitive. 

Honestly, I'd rather take a $140 gamble on the HP 6642A I linked earlier than even half-price on that Rigol. I KNOW it would cost me some DUT sooner or later.

mnem
*Returning to the latest installment of mnem the TinkerDwagon and the Air-Conditioning of DOOM*

Exactly.

Actually, About the only reason I am trying it is that a seller on Ebay has a scanned copy of the manual plus maintenance and schematics on a CD.    I bought that right after.

I'll be happy to let you know with pics.   Only God knows if I'll be able to get it to work with my mediocre skills, though.  It uses a N connector for the output.  Not really familiar with that connector.

Yea an N connector is typical for equipoment for use at frequencies into the GHz range. Ideally you would have cable to connect to the N connector as well ... but often people will just put an N to UHF or BNC adapter on it and call it a day.

It may actually work though. If the seller does not specifically know all functions work they aren't supposed to list it as "used" because that means that it is not new but all functions work as they are supposed to. So to avoid a return they will list it as "for parts or not working". So I would say there's a good chance it works OK.

Thanks for the info.  I've been reading about the connector on the net.   I'll probably get an adapter like that too, for now. 
I was thinking that it might be something like what you say about it being listed that way.  The seller sells all kinds of things, has a fairly low sell count (<700) and is named crazypets1. I doubt they know more than how to turn it on.  It had just been listed for a few hours.  They took a best offer on it for 180.  I always wondered about that .  Now I know why.  Thanks for the information. 

When I got my Marconi 2019A a few years back that had an N to BNC connector on it. One reason I got it so cheap (literally a tenner) was that the thing had no output. Turned it to be the adapter. If you get one, buy a decent one from a name brand.

[Wolfgang]

Thats easy. Daves teardown is a few years old now. In forum entries of 2013 (!) he claimed that the thermal issues and the turn-on spike (I personally have never seen it) were gone. So, if you buy anything newer than 2013 or 2014 you should be safe.

[mnementh]

Actually that is precisely what is in Roundup. Glyphosates are a synthetic derivative of agent orange...

Er, no. Agent Orange was a mixture of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, structures thus:

2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid



2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid



Whereas glyphosate (N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine) looks like this:



No relation except that Agent Orange and glyphosate are both herbicides.

Glyphosate works by by competitively inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase blocking the Shikimate pathway which is a fundamental biochemical pathway in plants.

2,4-D is a synthetic auxin, a plant growth hormone, driving the plant into growth overdrive and killing it thusly. 2,4,5-T is another synthetic auxin with a similar effect to 2,4-D.

Clearly there has to be some commonality between the two, as glyphosates are being linked (in studies outside the US, of course) to genetic damage in animals and people similarly to agent orange exposure. It was my understanding that the development of glyphosates was a direct result of that usage, and I guess I conflated that they used agent orange as a base rather than a negative-comparison model, especially when I read of the host of genetic diseases glyphosates are suspected of causing.

I'll be the first to admit my chemistry-Fu is weak, and you clearly have done your research. So please, tell us, if you can, what could be the cause of these concerns with glyphosates? Obviously, the chemical's interaction with plant life is not the same as animal life. Dumb it down for me, please.

Yes, I get the irony here; however I have done a fair amount of research into the subject... enough that I find it scary, but also overwhelmingly technical in a discipline that is alien to me.

mnem
*Makes mental note to do more research*

[mnementh]

No you can't. I took the 30 seconds, and there is an amazing dearth of results on both the entire phrase and every keyword in it.

Congratulations! That is actually quite the accomplishment; Guurgle couldn't even find any alternate results by guessing! 

mnem
I REALLY don't want to go back out there.

You can't? Jeez, I can't be doing everyone's homework around here. 

Yeah, but the difference is I actually BOTHERED to do research on the statement in question; I didn't just reflexively post "Proof please!" because I couldn't be arsed to spend a few minutes.

Furthermore, I'm STILL not posting "Proof Please!" because I've researched to my own satisfaction that you deliberately posted that as a ruse, and I don't care to pursue it any further than that. 

Cheers,

mnem
*Time to make the donuts err, time to pick up the kids*

[bd139]

Thats easy. Daves teardown is a few years old now. In forum entries of 2013 (!) he claimed that the thermal issues and the turn-on spike (I personally have never seen it) were gone. So, if you buy anything newer than 2013 or 2014 you should be safe.

The one that blew up at the local ARC was manufactured in 2017 so YMMV with that one. I'll see if I can brow beat them into throwing a thread on here.

[xrunner]

eah, but the difference is I actually BOTHERED to do research on the statement in question; I didn't just reflexively post "Proof please!" because I couldn't be arsed to spend a few minutes.

Furthermore, I'm STILL not posting "Proof Please!" because I've researched to my own satisfaction that you deliberately posted that as a ruse, and I don't care to pursue it any further than that. 

Can we get back to the purpose of this thread - please? 

[Wolfgang]

Well, sad to hear but this should be covered by the 3 years warranty the give.
Maybe we should start a DP832(A) reliability survey thread. I want to know what other users feel about this part.

[bd139]

Yeah it was fortunately. Good plan actually.

xrunner: agree.

I was promised my 87V would be sent today and receive a tracking ID today. No banana.  ... I will invoke paypal if no communications on Monday.

Edit: meant to say. I have been researching noise generators for SA. Going with a simple design to start with and will document each of them in another thread I think. First one is a zener amplified by a simple three-stage BJT amplifier. Rationale for this is I have the bits and the bits for the more fun ones with MMICs are going to be a few days yet. Will compare 2-3 designs.

[Cerebus]

Clearly there has to be some commonality between the two, as glyphosates are being linked (in studies outside the US, of course) to genetic damage in animals and people similarly to agent orange exposure. It was my understanding that the development of glyphosates was a direct result of that usage, and I guess I conflated that they used agent orange as a base rather than a negative-comparison model, especially when I read of the host of genetic diseases glyphosates are suspected of causing.

I'll be the first to admit my chemistry-Fu is weak, and you clearly have done your research. So please, tell us, if you can, what could be the cause of these concerns with glyphosates? Obviously, the chemical's interaction with plant life is not the same as animal life. Dumb it down for me, please.

Yes, I get the irony here; however I have done a fair amount of research into the subject... enough that I find it scary, but also overwhelmingly technical in a discipline that is alien to me.

mnem
*Makes mental note to do more research*

Agent Orange - the then manufacturing methods for 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T produced dioxins, as an unintended by-product, in more than trivial quantities. Dioxins are highly toxic, affecting gene expression in all eukaryote species. They poison at a very fundamental level of cell biology that can cause immediate damage, cancer and birth defects. The dread PCBs in old transformer oils are a related and similarly toxic class of chemicals. Any possible acute or chronic toxicity from 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T pales in comparison to the toxicity attributable to the presence of dioxins in Agent Orange.

Glyphosate is an organophosphorus compound. The phrase "organophosphorus compound" should set off alarm bells on any biologist or biochemists hearing of it. I don't offhand know of any organophosphorus compounds that could be regarded as intrinsically safe or harmless. On the other hand I know of many hugely toxic and dangerous organophosphorus compounds such as the insecticides malathion, parathion, diazinon, fenthion, dichlorvos, chlorpyrifos, ethion, and trichlorfon; not forgetting the organophosphorus nerve agents soman, sarin, tabun, and VX. With classmates like that no one would blame you for distrusting anyone else in the class. I would not use any organophosphorus compound known to be biologically active without protective equipment including a respirator, gloves, eye protection and a bunny suit or lab coat. Evil bastards the lot of 'em, I'd trust 'em as far as I could spit Mnem.

[neo]

Bask in AWE!



2"Think sold pine top, rear posts are both 4x6 beams and everything on this table is more that adequate to take my own weight.
There is an under-shelf, holding both tube testers a crt rejuveinwhatsit tester and the oscilloscope i'm fixing for shits and giggles.
Main table is holding (from left to right down to up), Heathkit IM-8, HK ETI-7040, HK-7010, Instek GDM-8034, HK IM-5228, B&K 1801, Instek GFG-8020H, Bel merit FC-200, Fairchild 7050, Fluke 8010, Fluke 8050, Keithley 177, HP 3312A
First shelf is holding (from left to right down to up), HP 608C, random homemade supply, HK 0-12, Paco C-25, HK IN 5281, PD TW-4005, random high current low voltage power supply and then behind then is a pair of 20A @ 20v supplies
Top layer, Tek 7704A with 7A18, 7A26, Tb85 and 7B85 then to its right is a Simpson 415A
That is how much equipment this shelf can hold without overflowing onto the work area, maybe a little more if the pieces are properly shaped.
.... or not.

[Wolfgang]

The DP832 opinion poll thread has started !

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-is-your-opinion-of-the-quality-of-the-rigol-dp832(a)/