Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

I'm going to be facetious and remark that a discussion about other forums and moderation is off-topic in this thread. Could you lads please move along?

Thanks, Teach. I'll get right on that overdue homework. 

mnem
*Toddles off to ded fur reallzz this time*

[xrunner]

Actually, About the only reason I am trying it is that a seller on Ebay has a scanned copy of the manual plus maintenance and schematics on a CD.    I bought that right after.

I'll be happy to let you know with pics.   Only God knows if I'll be able to get it to work with my mediocre skills, though.  It uses a N connector for the output.  Not really familiar with that connector.

So Housedad I was wondering - I don't remember what other test equipment you have - what do you have to verify the Wavetek 2410 operation? Looks like it can do simple AM/FM modulation. Do you have a spectrum analyzer yet? Looks like a nice piece of kit if it works - they can sell used for up to $2000.

[Housedad]

Alas, I do not have a spectrum analyzer yet.  I just happened on this deal and thought I'd try it.  The analyzer will be coming later along with a decent universal counter or at least a decent frequency counter.  My current is a Chinese open board unit - cheap, but does the job.  Waiting for the moons to align.   At least there is the Rigol FFT.  ( )
There is a company not too far away that does calibrations.  But first I want to see if it works or if I could fix it easily (!!! yeah, right) and then go for calibration if warranted or desired.  I'm only interested in future messing around with ham and radio work.
As far as equipment,  nothing fancy.  I know the generator is more than I need, but I think it is worth the try, at least.  If I don't try,  I failed right there.

(1) Rigol 1054z  oscilloscope
(1) Rigol DG1022 20 mhz function generator
(1) Digilent Logic discovery w/acc
(2) Instek GPD-3303s power supplies
(2) Instek GDM-8251A multimeters
(1) INSTEK GOS-6112 analog oscilloscope

And a bunch of miscellaneous stuff all laid out in pics here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/msg1179703/#msg1179703

Forgot to mention that I have added a Amscope stereo double Boom microscope with camera, 144 led ring light and .5 and 2x lenses lenses.  Amscope SM-4T  There is also a lot more small stuff now than in that post.

[xrunner]

Alas, I do not have a spectrum analyzer yet.  I just happened on this deal and thought I'd try it.  The analyzer will be coming later along with a decent universal counter or at least a decent frequency counter. 
There is a company not too far away that does calibrations.  But first I want to see if it works or if I could fix it easily (!!! yeah, right) and then go for calibration if warranted or desired.  I'm only interested in future messing around with ham and radio work.

I sending you a PM regarding ham radio. 

As far as equipment,  nothing fancy.  I know the generator is more than I need, but I think it is worth the try, at least.  If I don't try,  I failed right there.

(1) Rigol 1054z  oscilloscope
(1) Rigol DG1022 20 mhz function generator
(1) Digilent Logic discovery w/acc
(2) Instek GPD-3303s power supplies
(2) Instek GDM-8251A multimeters
(1) INSTEK GOS-6112 analog oscilloscope

Oh yea I remember your pic now. Nice setup so far. Yea as you are aware you could check out the Wavetek in a basic way any number of ways without a spectrum analyzer. If you have an HF radio you can listen to check for AM and FM modulation of a carrier from any internal modulation and also you can connect it to an external modulation source from your function generator. Or a 2 meter or 440 FM radio check the FM modulation.

If you put a 50 ohm terminator on a scope input you can check the RMS value of the 2410 output sine wave using frequencies within the BW of the scope for larger values of outputs. If you want to go really low (I have not read the manual for it so I don't know how low it goes) you can go down to something like -73 dBm and that's roughly (some radios very roughly) S9 on the S meter of a shortwave receiver. It's just a rough check.

You could tune into WWV on 10 MHz (provided they haven't pulled the funding yet LOL) on a radio and loosely couple the output of the 2410 to the radio antenna. Adjust the output amplitude of the 2410 until you hear the two signals beating against each other. You can see how close you are to WWV by changing the 2410 frequency in small increments.

Stuff like that.

[Housedad]

Thanks for the info and hints.  I will get a couple of books and try to read more about it.   The Wavetek 2410 is 10khz to 1.1Ghz. 

[Simon]

It's here because this is where our friends are, and we tolerate a certain level of OT here. In all honesty, we find "OT Nazi-ing" generally much more offensive than a page or two of OT.

It is in large part that tolerance which has made this one of the most popular threads on the server.

Cheers,

mnem
*Off. Slightly.*

Yet you don't set the rules and monsanto is way out there. there is off topic and total diversion! at least stick loosely to the topic.

[bd139]

Wow just woke up and last night was a thread roller coaster. I appear to have triggered that one by facetiously suggesting that the non arrival of my Fluke 87V would leave me no excuse to not do the gardening  . My apologies.

Back on topic. I have been screwed for the weekend now. No Fluke 87V and CPC cocked up my repair queue and noise generator order entirely.

Back at that ham fest I went to a few weeks back there was a Fluke 8100B as well for £20. Slightly regretting not picking that up now.

[bitseeker]

RIGOL DP832, anyone ? Hardly to get more bang for the buck. Linear, low ripple and noise, properly cooled (now), ...
Why not ?

Two of the three channels aren't isolated from one another. Could be a bad day if you forget. I don't remember which two (see, that's no good), but it was covered in Dave's vid about it.

[bitseeker]

It's been a while since I posted around here.   Been happily busy with life and learning.

Nothing wrong with that. Even if you're here regularly, it can be hard to keep up with all the conversations in the thread.

But the TEA problem has reared it's ugly head in a most vehement fashion.

I just bought a Wavetek 2410 RF Signal Generator used on Ebay.  Listed as parts not working.  I'm going nuts.  Or just getting old and senile.  Buying stuff sight unseen and hoping I can get it working.  sheesh.  At least I won't lose much if it is a boat anchor.  Got it cheap.  It does power up and show a frequency on the screen

Now to wait for it to come in.

Yeah, we are all too familiar with that notion. Maybe we're all getting old and senile.  Looking forward to seeing more about it when you get it.

[bitseeker]

It uses a N connector for the output.  Not really familiar with that connector.

Yea an N connector is typical for equipoment for use at frequencies into the GHz range. Ideally you would have cable to connect to the N connector as well ... but often people will just put an N to UHF or BNC adapter on it and call it a day.

Yep, I have a couple N-to-BNC for hooking up to gear with those big N connectors. No worries. If you start getting too many devices with different connectors, you can get an RF connector adapter kit that enables you to make your own whatever-to-whatever combinations.

[bitseeker]

DP832

...

But it's half the price of Keysight.

Only if you must have a new device.

Also the number buttons - wtf? Did Sony have a hand in that design?

Yeah, Rigol works really hard to make their stuff as "different" as possible.

[bd139]

If someone sells a second hand one at a good price I’ll buy it. Haven’t seen any yet.

RIGOL DP832, anyone ? Hardly to get more bang for the buck. Linear, low ripple and noise, properly cooled (now), ...
Why not ?

Two of the three channels aren't isolated from one another. Could be a bad day if you forget. I don't remember which two (see, that's no good), but it was covered in Dave's vid about it.

The second 30V and 5V channels. This is less of a problem than it would have been if both the 30V channels were commoned like the DP831. But it’s clearly a cost saving measure and an annoying one. Even crappy old Heathkit IP-2718 has three fully independent outputs.  I’d pay £50 more if it didn’t have that restriction.

[bitseeker]

Bask in AWE!



2"Think sold pine top, rear posts are both 4x6 beams and everything on this table is more that adequate to take my own weight.

Well, now that looks like some proper boat anchor docks. Much less ominous than the precarious stacks you had before.

[Berni]

Yep once you get into RF you also get a side effect of a rapidly expanding collection of coax cables and adapters.

On that note i just repaired a another RF boatanchor. An 10Mhz to 1GHz impedance analyzer, maybe il share some photos later. But as a result i now need APC-7 adapters. Gaaaah

[tggzzz]

This thread has degenerated into a poor version of Twatter, with messages akin to "my parcel is coming up the driveway" and similar.

Does that make us a collection of twats?

Even apart from the recent, um, deviation, given the nominal subject of this thread most people would think we are a collection of twats.

[tggzzz]

It uses a N connector for the output.  Not really familiar with that connector.

Yea an N connector is typical for equipoment for use at frequencies into the GHz range. Ideally you would have cable to connect to the N connector as well ... but often people will just put an N to UHF or BNC adapter on it and call it a day.

Yep, I have a couple N-to-BNC for hooking up to gear with those big N connectors. No worries. If you start getting too many devices with different connectors, you can get an RF connector adapter kit that enables you to make your own whatever-to-whatever combinations.

Be cautious of the VSWR of such a chain.

You can probably reduce the effect but, as with a lot of RF test gear, you would have to remortgage your house.

[tggzzz]

Yep once you get into RF you also get a side effect of a rapidly expanding collection of coax cables and adapters.

On that note i just repaired a another RF boatanchor. An 10Mhz to 1GHz impedance analyzer, maybe il share some photos later. But as a result i now need APC-7 adapters. Gaaaah

Hamfests help make the former practical.

For the latter, see my previous post

[bd139]

If you can’t afford nice cables and connectors, sticking attenuators in everywhere seems to do the trick to keep VSWR down too. Since I built that RLB and used power meter I can measurably get down to 60dB and 1.002 easy 

Can actually tune up my circuits now without fear of exploding things.

Edit: to note I’ve only gone up to 2m band (145Mhz) so far. Currently reading a book on microstrip and UHF stuff so may get expensive soon.

[Specmaster]

This thread has degenerated into a poor version of Twatter, with messages akin to "my parcel is coming up the driveway" and similar.

Does that make us a collection of twats?

Even apart from the recent, um, deviation, given the nominal subject of this thread most people would think we are a collection of twats.

Who cares what others think, we are a collection of friendly knowledgeable people who sometimes like to jockey for the last word or be 100% correct which can sometimes get out of hand. But it always comes back to the central theme that bonds us and in the process we learn something new. Is that any different to what would happen if we all met in a pub, no, natural conversations are wide and diverse that's life. If someone has something that is on topic, they are not prevented in any way from posting it are they? All of these OT discussions die out when there is a more interesting post to read and comment on, always has in the past and I see no reason why the same will not be true in the future [emoji4]

[bitseeker]

RIGOL DP832, anyone ? Hardly to get more bang for the buck. Linear, low ripple and noise, properly cooled (now), ...
Why not ?

Two of the three channels aren't isolated from one another. Could be a bad day if you forget. I don't remember which two (see, that's no good), but it was covered in Dave's vid about it.

The second 30V and 5V channels. This is less of a problem than it would have been if both the 30V channels were commoned like the DP831.

Yeah, not isolating the two 30V channels would have been showstopper.

[tggzzz]

If you can’t afford nice cables and connectors, sticking attenuators in everywhere seems to do the trick to keep VSWR down too. Since I built that RLB and used power meter I can measurably get down to 60dB and 1.002 easy 

If and only if you have attenuators with the right connectors

Edit: to note I’ve only gone up to 2m band (145Mhz) so far. Currently reading a book on microstrip and UHF stuff so may get expensive soon.

Precisely Or is that The nice thing about (connector) standards is that there are so many available.

Now, shall I bother to hack up to the national hamfest in Newark tomorrow? With or without some surplus stuff?

[bd139]

If and only if you have attenuators with the right connectors

I'm pretending I do

Edit: to note I’ve only gone up to 2m band (145Mhz) so far. Currently reading a book on microstrip and UHF stuff so may get expensive soon.

Precisely Or is that

Now, shall I bother to hack up to the national hamfest in Newark tomorrow? With or without some surplus stuff?

That's definitely a because I've started looking at moving to SMA connectors for everything and am looking at trying to get my hands on some teflon boards and that's going to get even more expensive now! Also you can't really dead bug UHF stuff easily - it's a design up front job.

With respect to Newark (wanker as we used to call it when I worked there for a bit), I have considered this:

Positives:

1. My in-laws are coming over tomorrow so I could avoid the plague ridden wretched meat popsicles.
2. Lots of TEA goodies
3. Nice place to go for a day.

Negatives:

1. It's in Newark and I'm not sure I can be bothered to drive all the way up there. Even worse for you!
2. Have definitely spent this month's TEA budget already.
3. Random speed cameras up the A1 or average speed cameras on the M1 / A52 
4. VHF talk in means old people nearly crashing while using their HT's for about 5 miles around the place. Fair enough this is a big problem at Kempton as well.
5. Intruder Watch radio nazis will be there and I might have to wind them up from afar by pretending to be a fishing vessel and get myself in trouble.

[tggzzz]

If and only if you have attenuators with the right connectors

I'm pretending I do

You might be able to fool SWMBO, but you can't fool your wallet!

Edit: to note I’ve only gone up to 2m band (145Mhz) so far. Currently reading a book on microstrip and UHF stuff so may get expensive soon.

Precisely Or is that

Now, shall I bother to hack up to the national hamfest in Newark tomorrow? With or without some surplus stuff?

That's definitely a because I've started looking at moving to SMA connectors for everything and am looking at trying to get my hands on some teflon boards and that's going to get even more expensive now! Also you can't really dead bug UHF stuff easily - it's a design up front job.

You can prototype such stuff as a sanity check, but you have to be aware of the limitations in your construction method.

For small boards and lower frequencies, you can just about get away with FR4. The glass weave is the main unpredictable factor.

With respect to Newark (wanker as we used to call it when I worked there for a bit), I have considered this:

Positives:

1. My in-laws are coming over tomorrow so I could avoid the plague ridden wretched meat popsicles.
2. Lots of TEA goodies
3. Nice place to go for a day.

Negatives:

1. It's in Newark and I'm not sure I can be bothered to drive all the way up there. Even worse for you!
2. Have definitely spent this month's TEA budget already.
3. Random speed cameras up the A1 or average speed cameras on the M1 / A52 
4. VHF talk in means old people nearly crashing while using their HT's for about 5 miles around the place. Fair enough this is a big problem at Kempton as well.
5. Intruder Watch radio nazis will be there and I might have to wind them up from afar by pretending to be a fishing vessel and get myself in trouble.

I don't have to fight my way out of the big smoke, so it looks like I'm only 15 mins/15 miles further away.

[bd139]

You might be able to fool SWMBO, but you can't fool your wallet!

I only need to fool her

You can prototype such stuff as a sanity check, but you have to be aware of the limitations in your construction method.

For small boards and lower frequencies, you can just about get away with FR4. The glass weave is the main unpredictable factor.

I sometimes get away with FR4. I had an interesting problem the other day where I cut a slot in some FR4 to divide off about 5mm to use as a positive rail for a relatively low frequency 14MHz oscillator. This was because I couldn't be bothered to cut a strip of FR4 out. The oscillator was unstable if you moved it around. Eventually I built another one over a ground plane with manhattan style construction and it was solid as a rock. Then I decided to play around and make an extreme version of this using 1970s "RF breadboard" QST article as a reference to see what the deal was there based on the above and if those designs actually worked. I read about those in the 1980s from some QSTs I got from someone back then. They didn't work at all. I bothered to record the fail here using my FT-818 as an audible frequency monitor:



Amazing how much amateur radio lore is total crap!

Incidentally the FT-818 is a really damn good bit of test gear. I've used it a lot recently for this sort of stuff.

I don't have to fight my way out of the big smoke, so it looks like I'm only 15 mins/15 miles further away.

That's a fair point. It's an hour plus to get to the A1 from here. At least you have the M5.

[nixiefreqq]

just wanted to say thanks to the anonymous contributor who suggested saving the clipped off leads from thru the hole components.

at the time it seemed a silly thing to do...…..but what the hell...….. these tea reprobates had never steered me wrong before.

holy shit balls.  seems like twice a day a use appears for one of the little bastards.  the only down side is that swmbo looked in the coffee cup they are kept in, gave me the stink eye, and walked away in a state.  (guess she wanted the cup back).

anyhow.....THANKS!

ps  hey neo.....that is one manly bench.  looks like a whole herd of cats could not knock anything off it.