Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tautech]

Momentary Lapse of Reason in the background as we speak ! 

I have those all the time.

Isn't that exactly the reason for this thread ? 

[tautech]

Momentary Lapse of Reason in the background as we speak ! 

These guys, online stream:
https://radio.org.nz/the-sound/#

[Specmaster]

With copious amounts of volume...

If I had hi-fi like that SWMBO would be mega pissed and I'd be sleeping with the neighbours dog 

[kj7e]

If I had hi-fi like that SWMBO would be mega pissed and I'd be sleeping with the neighbours dog 

Yeah, I was fortunate.  I was laid off my last job after 17 years, but went to work for a company that bought part of my old company the next week so had almost 6 months of full pay severance on top of my normal pay.  Bought me a new HiFi (and a new car for SWMBO).

[Neomys Sapiens]

If I had hi-fi like that SWMBO would be mega pissed and I'd be sleeping with the neighbours dog 

Is it a she-dog, at least?

[tggzzz]

This is great until you want to actually get something done working with other people. THEN the agreed-upon construct becomes VERY important; you can either take the time to become conversant in one of the popular programming constructs, or be ready to teach everybody you work with how to program in YOURS.

That's why an IDE's "auto format" operations are so valuable: you can convert other people's stuff into stuff you can read. Some languages make that easier and more complete, others less so.

But the important point is the extent to which the syntax allows the tools to catch or highlight errors.

[beanflying]

Better than 12/2 I guess. Wait and see how the FTTC goes after the world goes to sleep.....

[nfmax]

This is great until you want to actually get something done working with other people. THEN the agreed-upon construct becomes VERY important; you can either take the time to become conversant in one of the popular programming constructs, or be ready to teach everybody you work with how to program in YOURS.

That's why an IDE's "auto format" operations are so valuable: you can convert other people's stuff into stuff you can read. Some languages make that easier and more complete, others less so.

But the important point is the extent to which the syntax allows the tools to catch or highlight errors.

Not forgetting that you yourself will be 'other people' when you come to look at your code in a few month's time...

[tggzzz]

This is great until you want to actually get something done working with other people. THEN the agreed-upon construct becomes VERY important; you can either take the time to become conversant in one of the popular programming constructs, or be ready to teach everybody you work with how to program in YOURS.

That's why an IDE's "auto format" operations are so valuable: you can convert other people's stuff into stuff you can read. Some languages make that easier and more complete, others less so.

But the important point is the extent to which the syntax allows the tools to catch or highlight errors.

Not forgetting that you yourself will be 'other people' when you come to look at your code in a few month's time...

In most respects, yes - but not in this respect. I always format and save my code in The One True Way, and that hasn't changed in decades

[beanflying]

This is great until you want to actually get something done working with other people. THEN the agreed-upon construct becomes VERY important; you can either take the time to become conversant in one of the popular programming constructs, or be ready to teach everybody you work with how to program in YOURS.

That's why an IDE's "auto format" operations are so valuable: you can convert other people's stuff into stuff you can read. Some languages make that easier and more complete, others less so.

But the important point is the extent to which the syntax allows the tools to catch or highlight errors.

Not forgetting that you yourself will be 'other people' when you come to look at your code in a few month's time...

In most respects, yes - but not in this respect. I always format and save my code in The One True Way, and that hasn't changed in decades

Apart from my early Apple Basic when I hit Uni you learned structure and formatting or your Fortran and Pascal programming got belted for marks when submitted. Not to mention it was always easier to help others with finding how they put a loop into the code that brought the HP9000 'regularly' to a standstill in particular the night before assignments were due 

Even simple micro stuff I still format even though no one else sees it.

[tggzzz]

This is great until you want to actually get something done working with other people. THEN the agreed-upon construct becomes VERY important; you can either take the time to become conversant in one of the popular programming constructs, or be ready to teach everybody you work with how to program in YOURS.

That's why an IDE's "auto format" operations are so valuable: you can convert other people's stuff into stuff you can read. Some languages make that easier and more complete, others less so.

But the important point is the extent to which the syntax allows the tools to catch or highlight errors.

Not forgetting that you yourself will be 'other people' when you come to look at your code in a few month's time...

In most respects, yes - but not in this respect. I always format and save my code in The One True Way, and that hasn't changed in decades

Apart from my early Apple Basic when I hit Uni you learned structure and formatting or your Fortran and Pascal programming got belted for marks when submitted. Not to mention it was always easier to help others with finding how they put a loop into the code that brought the HP9000 'regularly' to a standstill in particular the night before assignments were due 

Even simple micro stuff I still format even though no one else sees it.

Yup.

Regrettably there is an electronics equivalent to strangely formatted code: schematics that don't use common conventions for how sub-circuits are layed out.

Classic examples are

• signal flow from right to left
• opamp circuits with the ancillary components in strange positions
• digital circuits where the components aren't connected by wires, just by named stubs
• transistors in strange orientations
• schematics drawn like PCB layouts

[bd139]

That's a pet hate of mine. ARRL are the worst:



The 4.7/47k are the bias divider for the damn thing, Cf is bypassing the 4.7k resistor, C2 is resonant with T1. Who would have guessed? It gets even worse when you look at phasing on some of their transformers as they've drawn one tap upside down to bring the power from the South and then drawn phasing dots to correct it?!!??

[tggzzz]

That's a pet hate of mine. ARRL are the worst:

... but I've seen even worse

A thoughtfully-drawn schematic makes me think the developer knows what they are doing. A poorly drawn schematic makes me think the developer is using voodoo or cargo-cult design.

Maybe somebody should startup a "WTF schematic" thread or website.

[Mr. Scram]

... but I've seen even worse

A thoughtfully-drawn schematic makes me think the developer knows what they are doing. A poorly drawn schematic makes me think the developer is using voodoo or cargo-cult design.

Maybe somebody should startup a "WTF schematic" thread or website.

I think there's already been a somewhat similar discussion in the thread about the video Dave did on proper schematic design.

[mnementh]

Momentary Lapse of Reason in the background as we speak ! 

I have those all the time.

Isn't that exactly the reason for this thread ? 

WhuuuWeTalkin'Aboutt?   

Yup.

Regrettably there is an electronics equivalent to strangely formatted code: schematics that don't use common conventions for how sub-circuits are layed out.

Classic examples are

• signal flow from right to left
• opamp circuits with the ancillary components in strange positions
• digital circuits where the components aren't connected by wires, just by named stubs
• transistors in strange orientations
• schematics drawn like PCB layouts

• Unfortunately, as more and more of our "stuff" is not only manufactured where they read that way, but designed there as well, this will only increase.
• What; you don't like your op-amps standing on their heads?
• What really torques my turkey is CADD-generated layouts that change all the component pinouts of dozens of ICs helter-skelter and the lazy bastards who leave them that way.
  ESPECIALLY when their "schematic" consists of machine-generated page after page with ONE FUCKING IC on it... 
• That I can live with as long as it improves linear flow and avoids jump-overs. 
• If your PCB is laid out by a human being who laid out a civilized schematic, odds are it will have similar linear flow to your schematic.
  It's when you let the machine auto-route EVERYTHING that you fuck yourself. And everyone who comes after you. 

mnem

[mnementh]

That's a pet hate of mine. ARRL are the worst:



The 4.7/47k are the bias divider for the damn thing, Cf is bypassing the 4.7k resistor, C2 is resonant with T1. Who would have guessed? It gets even worse when you look at phasing on some of their transformers as they've drawn one tap upside down to bring the power from the South and then drawn phasing dots to correct it?!!??

*In best soothing Dr. Dwagon voice* Here you go buddy... have a nice warm glass of milk and take it easy for the rest of the afternoon...  

mnem

[mnementh]

(SNIP)
Nonetheless, all techniques and technologies can be and are misused. Good taste is important, and rare. Some people should never be let near a keyboard.

Hey... I resemble that remark!!! 

I wasn't thinking of you in that respect. But in true post-modern-lit-crit style, now you've made me think...

Worth speed-reading, from http://www.fudco.com/chip/deconstr.html :

How To Deconstruct Almost Anything
My Postmodern Adventure

by Chip Morningstar
June 1993

"Academics get paid for being clever, not for being right."
-- Donald Norman

This is the story of one computer professional's explorations in the world of postmodern literary criticism. I'm a working software engineer, not a student nor an academic nor a person with any real background in the humanities. Consequently, I've approached the whole subject with a somewhat different frame of mind than perhaps people in the field are accustomed to. Being a vulgar engineer I'm allowed to break a lot of the rules that people in the humanities usually have to play by, since nobody expects an engineer to be literate. Ha. Anyway, here is my tale.....

LOL... I've had that article in a .rtf on my hard drive for decades. The Donald Norman quote was my sig for a while when I hung out in various "writing workshop" circles. This was the first time I'd ever heard the term "Software Engineer" and didn't IMMEDIATELY cringe.  Arguably one of the few times that ever didn't happen... 

You are on the lucky side of the fence. The entire field is a throbbing soul consuming mental disorder on wheels. You’re not dumb; we are. You’re the clever one not prostituting your mind out!

I've been prostituting my genius for myself for almost three decades; much better than letting somebody else pimp me out and I just get the crumbs. Here is one of the FEW places I give it out for free. 

mnem
And it's worth EXACTLY what you paid for it! *Bah-dump-bump-tshhhht*

[mnementh]

I'm sitting here watching this discussion whiz by WAY over my head.  You guys have a habit of making me feel dumb sometimes. 

+1 You're not alone med. 

Sorry... that was NOT my intent. I deliberately derailed another iteration of the old "which programming tool is best" argument (something I can mostly ONLY appreciate vicariously; to say "My Kung-Fu is weak" is a gross understatement) to one of the philisophy of programming, language and tool-use, which is something I do have some fair understanding on a cellular level.

It's not that I CAN'T code; quite the obverse: I've discovered that if I allow myself to dip a toe in that pool, I wind up crawling out the other side disheveled and horrific in visage, having spent several weeks as some undead creature of the night whose only music for the duration has been the song of the nulls.  As you might imagine, this is frightful even to someone of my monstrous heritage; so I compartmentalize. HARD.

mnem
"I took the red pill and the blue pill... now we are unanimous."

[GreyWoolfe]

Momentary Lapse of Reason in the background as we speak ! 

I have those all the time.

Ain't momentary any more here either.  My trains of thought derail more than AMTRAK.

[med6753]

It has been an extremely frustrating day but at least now I know what I'm up against. Been working on the 7904 all day. I mentioned the other day that it started going into intermittent "tick" mode on the power supply. Well it finally died completely. Won't power up at all and the supply is ticking like mad. The parts to recap the preregulator in the supply finally showed up this afternoon so I completed the recap. Put it all back together and the damn thing still won't power up. None of the supply voltages show any shorts. Just for giggles disconnected the HV anode lead from the supply to the CRT. Aw shit....the scope powers up. All the DC supply voltages are in spec. We have a problem in the HV area, probably a FUBAR tripler. But at least now I know where the trouble is. Right where I DON'T want to screw around but I guess I have no choice. Oh well. 

I'll pick back up on the mess tomorrow. And to add to today's fun and games found several instances where the scope no match the manual. That leads you down the wrong path for a while. 

[tautech]

It has been an extremely frustrating day but at least now I know what I'm up against. Been working on the 7904 all day. I mentioned the other day that it started going into intermittent "tick" mode on the power supply. Well it finally died completely. Won't power up at all and the supply is ticking like mad. The parts to recap the preregulator in the supply finally showed up this afternoon so I completed the recap. Put it all back together and the damn thing still won't power up. None of the supply voltages show any shorts. Just for giggles disconnected the HV anode lead from the supply to the CRT. Aw shit....the scope powers up. All the DC supply voltages are in spec. We have a problem in the HV area, probably a FUBAR tripler. But at least now I know where the trouble is. Right where I DON'T want to screw around but I guess I have no choice. Oh well. 

I'll pick back up on the mess tomorrow. And to add to today's fun and games found several instances where the scope no match the manual. That leads you down the wrong path for a while. 

Here's some guidance for ya:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tek-7704-pops-and-clicks-image-compressing-for-a-moment/msg940524/#msg940524

Follow all the links. 

[bd139]

@med: Damn that's a shitty day. Honestly I think I've given up buying Tektronix kit now after . I've done my stretch. Need a new thing. Hewlett Packard?

I was just writing about mine 

Well it turns out there's a metric fuck ton of pulse noise and the noise floor is up at S7 suddenly over HF near me. I can't hear a damn thing. The K2's noise blanker reduces it a bit but it's nowhere near good enough to take on whatever is doing this. I am soooo pissed. 

[med6753]

It has been an extremely frustrating day but at least now I know what I'm up against. Been working on the 7904 all day. I mentioned the other day that it started going into intermittent "tick" mode on the power supply. Well it finally died completely. Won't power up at all and the supply is ticking like mad. The parts to recap the preregulator in the supply finally showed up this afternoon so I completed the recap. Put it all back together and the damn thing still won't power up. None of the supply voltages show any shorts. Just for giggles disconnected the HV anode lead from the supply to the CRT. Aw shit....the scope powers up. All the DC supply voltages are in spec. We have a problem in the HV area, probably a FUBAR tripler. But at least now I know where the trouble is. Right where I DON'T want to screw around but I guess I have no choice. Oh well. 

I'll pick back up on the mess tomorrow. And to add to today's fun and games found several instances where the scope no match the manual. That leads you down the wrong path for a while. 

Here's some guidance for ya:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tek-7704-pops-and-clicks-image-compressing-for-a-moment/msg940524/#msg940524

Follow all the links. 

I remember that thread. And I suspect I might have a corona problem too. This issue started as soon as the weather turned rainy, humid, and sticky. So I have to tear into the HV area and check.....and darken the room to see if there's sparks.
 

[Specmaster]

@med I remember when Corona also meant a fizzy drink and they used deliver it round the estates like a milkman. 

Thanks to wch I should soon have enough Ge transistors to rebuild one of the Hacker amps and the other one, would you believe, will work OK with Si devices and the only modification according to my LTSpice model is the swapping of a 10k trimmer for a 15k one. Output will be down from 1.5w to just below 1w I think. The simulation shows good frequency response as well. Ordered the Si devices and trimmer so should soon find out if the model is correct or not 

[Macbeth]

@med I remember when Corona also meant a fizzy drink and they used deliver it round the estates like a milkman. 

Oh my word - the Corona van - with recyclable bottles. Also the rag and bone man on my estate with the horse. Balloons anyone?

I'm guessing you also got a Queens Silver Jubilee coin from a 1977 street party. I have no idea where my precious got lost in the intervening years but they sell them on ebay.