Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

Cylinder's all assembled with new gaskets & valve plate, head is torqued down to 60 in/lbs and a quick 1/2 second run shows it is making positive pressure again with no funny noises. 

This is a good stopping point. 

mnem
*~toddles off to ded~* 

[Ero-Shan]

I've made a great many such panels using just these tools; like with anything worth doing, prep makes all the difference. You start by laying it out with a good rule, Sharpie and a scribe to get perfect lines. You COULD use Dy-Kem Blue if you happen to dabble in lathe work, but Sharpie is a lot cheaper. 

Then you make a ~10mm hole close to each corner, and start nibbling. There ARE electric-powered equivalents to these, but for precise openings they just don't offer enough control. First you nibble the corners square, then start nibbling around the perimeter right next to, but NOT on the scribed line. The closer you get, the less file work you'll have later. Cut as much as you can from the BACK of the work for the cleanest lines; but sometimes you just HAVE TO cut from the front. Make allowances for this when laying out.

Last week I made the front panel for my "HV" supply (yes it is still not finished). It needed a 9x9 cm² cutout for the 2 panel meters (it would have needed 2 9x4.5 cm² ones, but I was cutting corners). At first I wanted to use my nibbler, but shied away fearing to bend the thin aluminum sheet. So I used my fretsaw.



The meter's bezels will hide the ragged edges.

The file work is where patience really pays off. you'll use a 12-16" (size of work surface) single-cut mill (type with smooth diagonal cutting edges) bastard (fineness of cut between COARSE and 2nd CUT) file. For big jaggies you'll knock the high points down by push or pull filing towards the BACK of the work. This makes all your burr edges manifest on the back edge. Pull-filing helps to mitigate the file snagging on edges and "hopping" which can scar up the work edges, or worse, the face of the panel. You want to clamp the metal so the vise is as close to the surface you are cutting as possible; this eliminates flex-induced movement of the work that will also cause "hopping".

Filing is where I shine. NOT! I did learn filing in vocational school ("Berufsschule" - had to look this one up), but I did not really learn it (I hated it). My father was a mechanician, but he didn't show me either.

This video is a good quick & clear primer on files & how to choose & care for them. 

I will watch it right now during breakfast, I promise!

And I decided to trash the panel and buy a new housing, since not only the panel is crap; the whole housing is awful. I still had it laying around and cheap as I am, thought I'd put it to use.

I picture myself standing at the vise for weekend after weekend ... ending up with turd. 

[beanflying]

Nibblers rock and using your Laser to mark out a job on itself Rocks even more 

Bit of masking tape to stop/reduce the scratches on the backside is worth it too. The reduction in cleanup time and effort over any saw method makes them really worthwhile.

Gratuitous 3D Printer photo too of the new 5 piece intake duct on the Laser.

[Ero-Shan]

Nice one  . Totally agree with the situation on 34401A versus a 34461A.

The only thing is I worry about is a 34461A's OLED screen.

I'd worry about a possible fan. The 34410A's makes an unbearable (to me) high pitched whining noise. I'm very sensitive when it comes to noise.
OLEDs should easily survive the rest of my life.

Re T932: I'm not going to disassemble it right now. Looking at the poor thing, I cannot help but feel sympathy for it. 

[beanflying]

While we are showing off NON electronic projects and because it is kind of satisfying.

Todays non electrical calibration gear was going to get a strip and good shellacking but when it arrived turns out it had been furniture waxed over time which would have been a major pain to entirely strip and refinish differently. IPA with 800 wet and dry and a little steel wool in places for the cleanup. Followed by 3 or 4 coats of this so far and a few more to go https://www.howardproducts.com.au/feed-n-wax.html/

Add in some black laser cut felt discs to the bottom of the wells and lid and much much nicer than the before shot. Just don't ask how many hours of work

[tautech]

Nice job bean, perfect inside job for shitty mid-winters day. 

[med6753]

I'm almost liking the thought of snow or cold when at 0345 hours it's 24C with 94% RH. The A/C is cruising on low with 22C and 55% RH. 

[Cerebus]

Nice one  . Totally agree with the situation on 34401A versus a 34461A.

The only thing is I worry about is a 34461A's OLED screen.

I'd worry about a possible fan. The 34410A's makes an unbearable (to me) high pitched whining noise. I'm very sensitive when it comes to noise.
OLEDs should easily survive the rest of my life.

Re T932: I'm not going to disassemble it right now. Looking at the poor thing, I cannot help but feel sympathy for it. 

I too have a deep loathing of fan noise and struggle to find kit quiet enough that I'm prepared to be around it. On that front the 34461A comes up trumps, you have to physically bend your head down to it to detect that the fan's running. Like I say, I'm real fussy and the 34461A doesn't bother me at all, not a jot.

[bd139]

I am with you on the fan noise thing. Despite spending a big chunk of the 90s loitering at somewhat louder than average clubs, I just can't stand noise these days. I wonder if that was the reason 

Good to know the 34461A is not an OLED display!

[med6753]

The loudest fan here is the Tek 2430. While I find it initially a little annoying after a while I can tune it out.

[Mr. Scram]

I'd worry about a possible fan. The 34410A's makes an unbearable (to me) high pitched whining noise. I'm very sensitive when it comes to noise.
OLEDs should easily survive the rest of my life.

Re T932: I'm not going to disassemble it right now. Looking at the poor thing, I cannot help but feel sympathy for it. 

A fanless 34410A making noise?

I'm obviously an idiot.

[Ero-Shan]

I'd worry about a possible fan. The 34410A's makes an unbearable (to me) high pitched whining noise. I'm very sensitive when it comes to noise.
OLEDs should easily survive the rest of my life.

Re T932: I'm not going to disassemble it right now. Looking at the poor thing, I cannot help but feel sympathy for it. 

A fanless 34410A making noise?

Maybe there are fanless 34410As, but those at work definitely have one. On the fifth picture on https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-692834-pn-34410A/digital-multimeter-6-digit-high-performance?cc=US&lc=eng it is visible.

[Mr. Scram]

Maybe there are fanless 34410As, but those at work definitely have one. On the fifth picture on https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-692834-pn-34410A/digital-multimeter-6-digit-high-performance?cc=US&lc=eng it is visible.

I too am a victim of HP's naming scheme. You were talking about the 34410A, not the 34401A I was talking about. 

[Brumby]

I'm not sure if I'm glad or worried about being an enabler 

You should probably talk to Bean.

He's the reason I have 4 pieces of test gear with the HP badge on them.  6 months ago I had none.

[Mr. Scram]

I was pretty happy with my multimeter setup, but all this talk has left me reconsidering things. I hate you guys. 

[TERRA Operative]

Started poking away at my new-to-me Fluke 332D DC Voltage Standard.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-332d-restoration/

Take a look and let me know what you think/what I should look out for/ that I'm crazy/etc.



Also, anyone in Japan got an 8.5 digit meter I can borrow?

[ArthurDent]

TERRA Operative - WOW, is that Fluke 332D nice and clean.

[TERRA Operative]

Yeah, it's obvious that this thing has never seen the angry end of a soldering iron, all the conformal coating is intact. I seriously think that it was sold cheap just because surplus resellers don't know about Deoxit.

Not bad for $100..

[bitseeker]

Wow, that was a steal at $100. Surely, that deserves a Jammit Git.

[bitseeker]

Maybe there are fanless 34410As, but those at work definitely have one. On the fifth picture on https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-692834-pn-34410A/digital-multimeter-6-digit-high-performance?cc=US&lc=eng it is visible.

I too am a victim of HP's naming scheme. You were talking about the 34410A, not the 34401A I was talking about. 

Yeah, that's a very common mixup with these DMMs. Talk about a bad choice of model numbers. There's also a 34411, which although not quite the same level of transposition disaster waiting to happen, still isn't too swift of a numbering choice.

It seems that HP wanted so badly for all 34401A owners to migrate to the 34410A, advertising it as a seamless upgrade, that they made the name almost identical, too. Unfortunately, the 34410A wasn't 100% compatible. Even when using the same SCPI commands, I've run into behavior differences.

Now, the 34460/34461/34465 are supposed to be drop-in replacements for the 34401A. The SCPI commands are supposed to be fully backwards compatible, supporting all the commands of the 34401A. However, I still wonder if the behaviors are identical.

[Mr. Scram]

Yeah, that's a very common mixup with these DMMs. Talk about a bad choice of model numbers. There's also a 34411, which although not quite the same level of transposition disaster waiting to happen, still isn't too swift of a numbering choice.

It seems that HP wanted so badly for all 34401A owners to migrate to the 34410A, advertising it as a seamless upgrade, that they made the name almost identical, too. Unfortunately, the 34410A wasn't 100% compatible. Even when using the same SCPI commands, I've run into behavior differences.

Now, the 34460/34461/34465 are supposed to be drop-in replacements for the 34401A. The SCPI commands are supposed to be fully backwards compatible, supporting all the commands of the 34401A. However, I still wonder if the behaviors are identical.

The chances of some behaviour being different and someone somewhere depending on it are approximately 100%

[mnementh]

   I've made a great many such panels using just these tools; like with anything worth doing, prep makes all the difference. You start by laying it out with a good rule, Sharpie and a scribe to get perfect lines. You COULD use Dy-Kem Blue if you happen to dabble in lathe work, but Sharpie is a lot cheaper. 

Then you make a ~10mm hole close to each corner, and start nibbling. There ARE electric-powered equivalents to these, but for precise openings they just don't offer enough control. First you nibble the corners square, then start nibbling around the perimeter right next to, but NOT on the scribed line. The closer you get, the less file work you'll have later. Cut as much as you can from the BACK of the work for the cleanest lines; but sometimes you just HAVE TO cut from the front. Make allowances for this when laying out.

   Last week I made the front panel for my "HV" supply (yes it is still not finished). It needed a 9x9 cm² cutout for the 2 panel meters (it would have needed 2 9x4.5 cm² ones, but I was cutting corners). At first I wanted to use my nibbler, but shied away fearing to bend the thin aluminum sheet. So I used my fretsaw. The meter's bezels will hide the ragged edges.

The file work is where patience really pays off. you'll use a 12-16" (size of work surface) single-cut mill (type with smooth diagonal cutting edges) bastard (fineness of cut between COARSE and 2nd CUT) file. For big jaggies you'll knock the high points down by push or pull filing towards the BACK of the work. This makes all your burr edges manifest on the back edge. Pull-filing helps to mitigate the file snagging on edges and "hopping" which can scar up the work edges, or worse, the face of the panel. You want to clamp the metal so the vise is as close to the surface you are cutting as possible; this eliminates flex-induced movement of the work that will also cause "hopping".

Filing is where I shine. NOT! I did learn filing in vocational school ("Berufsschule" - had to look this one up), but I did not really learn it (I hated it). My father was a mechanician, but he didn't show me either.

This video is a good quick & clear primer on files & how to choose & care for them. 

   I will watch it right now during breakfast, I promise! And I decided to trash the panel and buy a new housing, since not only the panel is crap; the whole housing is awful. I still had it laying around and cheap as I am, thought I'd put it to use. I picture myself standing at the vise for weekend after weekend ... ending up with turd. 

In all honesty, this kind of work is where simple perseverance is key. You're absolutely right; your first few projects are going to look like poop. They are your tuition.    But even 3 completed projects will show amazing improvement; I've done dozens of workshops and even the least-mechanically-inclined office weenie CAN do good work if they just come into it prepared to learn (mostly from your their mistakes) and persevere.

This is your main work ethic here: always cut LESS than you need, not more. What remains is what you'll clean up with the file. The file is your friend; because it removes very little at a time, it allows you much greater control. As you get more practiced and more self-confident, you'll learn just how close you can cut without effing it up, and which cutting methods will and will not work.

The great thing about learning this skill is that you can get MOST of your learning by doing... once you learn the basic techniques, the best teacher is yourself; you can learn the little tricks (like knowing how your cutting tool; be it shears, nibbler or saw will deform the metal, and how to manage the creation of burrs to your favor) in the smallest, most comfortable little hidey-hole with nobody looking over your shoulder.  

   Nibblers rock and using your Laser to mark out a job on itself Rocks even more     Bit of masking tape to stop/reduce the scratches on the backside is worth it too. The reduction in cleanup time and effort over any saw method makes them really worthwhile. Gratuitous 3D Printer photo too of the new 5 piece intake duct on the Laser.

  BLASPHEMER! You and your newfangled contraptions... you say "LASER!!!" and somehow it just HAS TO BE BETTER!     Okay, okay... maybe it is...

No, seriously though... how long before you have the 1-2KW laser on there what can just cut that out for you? 

While we are showing off NON electronic projects and because it is kind of satisfying.

Todays non electrical calibration gear was going to get a strip and good shellacking but when it arrived turns out it had been furniture waxed over time which would have been a major pain to entirely strip and refinish differently. IPA with 800 wet and dry and a little steel wool in places for the cleanup. Followed by 3 or 4 coats of this so far and a few more to go https://www.howardproducts.com.au/feed-n-wax.html/

Add in some black laser cut felt discs to the bottom of the wells and lid and much much nicer than the before shot. Just don't ask how many hours of work

Really looks much nicer, bean. Well done! 

Nice one  . Totally agree with the situation on 34401A versus a 34461A.

The only thing is I worry about is a 34461A's OLED screen.

I'd worry about a possible fan. The 34410A's makes an unbearable (to me) high pitched whining noise. I'm very sensitive when it comes to noise.
OLEDs should easily survive the rest of my life.

Re T932: I'm not going to disassemble it right now. Looking at the poor thing, I cannot help but feel sympathy for it. 

I too have a deep loathing of fan noise and struggle to find kit quiet enough that I'm prepared to be around it. On that front the 34461A comes up trumps, you have to physically bend your head down to it to detect that the fan's running. Like I say, I'm real fussy and the 34461A doesn't bother me at all, not a jot.

I've come to agree in general... a younger me felt anything that didn't SOUND like a jet plane taking off couldn't possibly be powerful enough to do anything useful; however, after more than a decade working as an Onsite Tech spent largely in datacenters reverberating with the sound of thousands of 10-20K RPM 40mm fans, I've learned a new appreciation for quiet things like my old Saturn L200 and this new PC build of mine. 

@Ero-Shan - good on you for having mercy on that T932...    I hope to someday see pics of it restored and being used! 

Started poking away at my new-to-me Fluke 332D DC Voltage Standard.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-332d-restoration/

Take a look and let me know what you think/what I should look out for/ that I'm crazy/etc.

Also, anyone in Japan got an 8.5 digit meter I can borrow?

You're crazy...! And you're in the right place!!! 

mnem
Welcome home. 

[med6753]

@Ero-Shan - good on you for having mercy on that T932...    I hope to someday see pics of it restored and being used! 

So how come you have mercy on the T932 .....BUT railed me about rebuilding the OL-1 calling it so much junk?    

Stamping foot...waiting. 

[mnementh]

I was pretty happy with my multimeter setup, but all this talk has left me reconsidering things. I hate you guys.

Simplify.

mnem

[Mr. Scram]

Simplify.

mnem

I wouldn't mind that Fluke 189 or DER EE  DE-5000 on my desk, although both would be pretty much superfluous with close analogues being present. They wouldn't suffice for my purposes, though.