Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[GreyWoolfe]

There's a reason proper soldering station have tips that come set to 650° or 800°; those are the correct temps for soldering 60/40 and lead-free respectively.
mnem

 Part of use of any tool is intelligent use by the operator but if that operator is a dummy then expect dummy results.
[/quote]

Back in my ITT days, we learned to solder with cheap a$$ rat shack firestarters.  Some of us got quite good with them, some not so much and we would lose points for bad soldering.  Most teams used their breadboards for the quarterly projects, my team made PCBs because we could-we had enough confidence in our soldering to do so and that, among other things, gave us a distinct edge because the quarterly projects were judged competition style, often having outsiders in technology fields judging.  When I graduated to my Hakko 936, there were times when I had to play with the temp settings for ham radio soldering.  I can now solder PL-259 connectors just fine with my Metcal and a 3.2 mm tip, the 936 never had a prayer of doing that.

I like the thermal recovery of my Hakko FX-951 and the choose tip size and forget of my Metcal MX-500.  The Hakko stays at 650^o and I have 6 series tips for the Metcal for lead and 1 8 series tip for lead free since I do so little.  There is absolutely something to be said for proper use of a tool lest injury/damage result.  For me, it is one less thing to worry about.  Intelligent use or not, the more variables that can be eliminated, the easier and better the job gets done.

this thread is inhabited by miscreants, scallywags.

Madness is something rare in individuals -- but in groups, parties, peoples, and ages, it is the rule.
                                                                          FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil

I resemble that remark.  Then again, I am a Jersey Boy, it's almost expected.

[xrunner]

Madness is something rare in individuals -- but in groups, parties, peoples, and ages, it is the rule.
                                                                          FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil

That's why I'm here! By myself people say I'm mad, but here it's normal to be!

[BravoV]

Cheap process calibrator, from House of Happiness  , lets see ... 

[xrunner]

NanoVNA (or any VNA) test board, might be nice to have -

eBay auction: #283623332730

[med6753]

Madness is something rare in individuals -- but in groups, parties, peoples, and ages, it is the rule.
                                                                          FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil

That's why I'm here! By myself people say I'm mad, but here it's normal to be!

(Attachment Link)

My neighbors think I'm a crazy old man. And they would be right. Which means they leave me alone. 

[med6753]

Re-cap of the B&K 3010 complete. And the results. 






And FedEx just pulled up! 

[Kosmic]

Cheap process calibrator, from House of Happiness  , lets see ... 

Just to be sure I ordered 4 of them 

Edit: for those not following this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/insanely-priced-meter/ you should see a new video from Dave tomorrow 

[BravoV]

Just to be sure I ordered 4 of them 

Guess both of us just rolled the dice, your bet is twice from mine though. 

[Kosmic]

Just to be sure I ordered 4 of them 

Guess both of us just rolled the dice, your bet is twice from mine though. 

Worst case I got some spare leads, fuses and aligator clips 

[BravoV]

Just to be sure I ordered 4 of them 

Guess both of us just rolled the dice, your bet is twice from mine though. 

Worst case I got some spare leads, fuses and aligator clips 

LOL, had the same thought too, from the picture, especially those big alligator clips look really nice. 

[mnementh]

* BU508A is stealing inconspicuous this little "r" from "Scheisser"   

You're welcome.   

I may just be dense, but I don't get the joke. My knowledge of german is limited but from what I know scheisse= shit scheisser = calling something a shit.

I didn't want to teach you, but I couldn't resist because I saw what you meant. I think. 

This little "r" makes a big difference.
Scheisser - someone, who is shitting (noun)
Scheisse - the stuff, err, well, you guessd it.

Das Ding ist Scheisse - that thing is shit
Er ist ein Scheisser - he is a bugger

But:

Er ist ein Schisser - he is a sissy

HTH   

Well... I'm not wrong. This thing is definitely taking a shit. Thanks for the lesson in how to swear properly.

Scheissekopfts!!! 

mnem

[mnementh]

If it were to self-destruct, it would be doing you a favor. Those things are not "variable-temp", they are "variable wattage" controlled purely by duty cycle. They have no "closed-loop" temperature control and will operate at anywhere from 150°C to cherry red based solely on how angry the pixies are this morning, with NO temperature limit. They burn up PCBs, plain & simple, and they are a blight on everything electronic.

No amount of you saying "it works fine" will change the fact it is literally the worst possible choice for any electronics work. Even when you get lucky and they don't burn the PCB, they still operate at the wrong temperature most of the time; either making a joint that crystallizes because it is too cold or burning the solder because it is too hot. There's a reason proper soldering station have tips that come set to 650° or 800°; those are the correct temps for soldering 60/40 and lead-free respectively.
mnem
(Attachment Link)

Sorry, but I'm not buying your gloom and doom. One of the first things I did was determine the MINIMUM set point required to achieve a good solder joint. And since I've been soldering for damn near 50 years I THINK I know what a good solder joint should look like. And so far with there have been no explosions, no fire, no destroyed boards. I expect that 99% of the time the control will remain at that minimum set point, life will go on, the flowers bloom, and the birds sing. Now on the rare instance where I need additional heat I'll crank up the control to achieve what is necessary for that instance and then immediately return it to it's minimum set point. Part of use of any tool is intelligent use by the operator but if that operator is a dummy then expect dummy results. I ain't no dummy.

I love you man, but this is an area where I'm going to have to take issue. Soldering is a mix of science, correct tools, and art.

I've literally been sent to school to learn the science and the tools as well as the art of soldering. When you've worked gigs where your solder joints are 100% x-rayed to be sure they're good, you'll understand the difference.

"I have soldered and the results look okay." is NOT the same as "I know how to solder."

Bottom line is you're using a blunt hatchet to do brain surgery. ANY closed-loop temperature control, even analog, is better than that POS, and is the minimum standard for proper soldering of ANYTHING.

Cheers,

mnem
*Done with this subject*

[med6753]

Here it is. Packaging was outstanding.  Need to run some errands then when I get back teardown and power on.

[med6753]

I love you man, but this is an area where I'm going to have to take issue. Soldering is a mix of science, correct tools, and art.

I've literally been sent to school to learn the science and the tools as well as the art of soldering. When you've worked gigs where your solder joints are 100% x-rayed to be sure they're good, you'll understand the difference.

"I have soldered and the results look okay." is NOT the same as "I know how to solder."

Bottom line is you're using a blunt hatchet to do brain surgery. ANY closed-loop temperature control, even analog, is better than that POS, and is the minimum standard for proper soldering of ANYTHING.

Cheers,

mnem
*Done with this subject*

If I take what you say at face value then you would have to conclude that my Ungar Imperial is also a POS which makes all my solder joints for the past 45 years suspect.   

[mnementh]

this thread is inhabited by miscreants, scallywags, and fiends.

the only exception is the true voice of reason......tautech.  (he tried his best to talk me off the ledge).

will post pics of the back breaking hp8569b when i collect it.




Madness is something rare in individuals -- but in groups, parties, peoples, and ages, it is the rule.
                                                                          FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil

mnem
"Nietzsche was a putz." ~me

[med6753]

You don't want to venture too far into the madness. Look what it got him in the end. 

[mnementh]

There's a reason proper soldering station have tips that come set to 650° or 800°; those are the correct temps for soldering 60/40 and lead-free respectively.
mnem

 Part of use of any tool is intelligent use by the operator but if that operator is a dummy then expect dummy results.

Back in my ITT days, we learned to solder with cheap a$$ rat shack firestarters.  Some of us got quite good with them, some not so much and we would lose points for bad soldering.  Most teams used their breadboards for the quarterly projects, my team made PCBs because we could-we had enough confidence in our soldering to do so and that, among other things, gave us a distinct edge because the quarterly projects were judged competition style, often having outsiders in technology fields judging.  When I graduated to my Hakko 936, there were times when I had to play with the temp settings for ham radio soldering.  I can now solder PL-259 connectors just fine with my Metcal and a 3.2 mm tip, the 936 never had a prayer of doing that.

I like the thermal recovery of my Hakko FX-951 and the choose tip size and forget of my Metcal MX-500.  The Hakko stays at 650^o and I have 6 series tips for the Metcal for lead and 1 8 series tip for lead free since I do so little.  There is absolutely something to be said for proper use of a tool lest injury/damage result.  For me, it is one less thing to worry about.  Intelligent use or not, the more variables that can be eliminated, the easier and better the job gets done.

Just because you CAN solder with a POS doesn't mean it is a good idea. I CAN weld with a coathanger; I've been welding long enough and developed my technique to the point that I can actually make a serviceable weld IF NEED BE sans the benefit of flux. That doesn't mean I'm going to CHOOSE to do so on a regular basis.

When decent, closed-loop soldering stations are SO cheap, choosing to use a POS like that Vastar orange turd is literally CHOOSING to use the wrong tool for the job. It is only suited to "wood-burning art" and starting kindling.

I love you man, but this is an area where I'm going to have to take issue. Soldering is a mix of science, correct tools, and art.

I've literally been sent to school to learn the science and the tools as well as the art of soldering. When you've worked gigs where your solder joints are 100% x-rayed to be sure they're good, you'll understand the difference.

"I have soldered and the results look okay." is NOT the same as "I know how to solder."

Bottom line is you're using a blunt hatchet to do brain surgery. ANY closed-loop temperature control, even analog, is better than that Vastar POS, and is the minimum standard for proper soldering of ANYTHING.

Cheers,

mnem
*Done with this subject*

If I take what you say at face value then you would have to conclude that my Ungar Imperial is also a POS which makes all my solder joints for the past 45 years suspect.   

 

mnem
"There is more in Heaven and in Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio." ~The Immortal Bard

[BU508A]

If I take what you say at face value then you would have to conclude that my Ungar Imperial is also a POS which makes all my solder joints for the past 45 years suspect.   

There are 3 golden rules in every company:

(1)  "We've ALWAYS done that this way!"
(2)  "We've NEVER done that this way!"
(3)  "Who are you anyway?"

  

[0culus]

Here it is. Packaging was outstanding.  Need to run some errands then when I get back teardown and power on.

A very nice specimen indeed. One thing I'm super curious about now that I've seen yours...the Type 114 is the only piece of Tek gear I own that says "TEKTRONIX, INC, PORTLAND, OREGON" rather than Beaverton. Was this something that changed at some point?

[tggzzz]

One thing I'm super curious about now that I've seen yours...the Type 114 is the only piece of Tek gear I own that says "TEKTRONIX, INC, PORTLAND, OREGON" rather than Beaverton. Was this something that changed at some point?

My 115 and 191, from the same era, are the same.

[mnementh]

You don't want to venture too far into the madness. Look what it got him in the end. 

Ummm... yeah. He chose to end his own life on his own terms, because he could feel the most precious thing any person has... his self... slipping away to terminal disease.

We should all be so sane, and so brave.

mnem
"It's okay to be weird." ~ What Robin Williams taught me.

[Addicted2AnalogTek]

One thing I'm super curious about now that I've seen yours...the Type 114 is the only piece of Tek gear I own that says "TEKTRONIX, INC, PORTLAND, OREGON" rather than Beaverton. Was this something that changed at some point?

My 115 and 191, from the same era, are the same.

My 191, 106, 184, and 067-0502-01 also say "Portland, Oregon" on them.
However, the 067-0532-01 (and -00), 284, and 067-0508-00 all say "Beaverton, Oregon".

[EV]

I have 3 type 284 from Portland and 3 from Beaverton.

[mnementh]

Just to be sure I ordered 4 of them 

Guess both of us just rolled the dice, your bet is twice from mine though. 

Worst case I got some spare leads, fuses and aligator clips 

   LOL, had the same thought too, from the picture, especially those big alligator clips look really nice. 

   All my friends are doin' it, so I'm doin' it too!!! 

But I DID spring the two dollah for ePacket... we'll see if it makes any difference on deliveries to the Great White North. I suspect Customs will more likely cause delay than anything else.

mnem
Hey... Whatchoo guys doin' all up on that bridge...?!?

[med6753]

Type 114 porn.

Top view. No evidence of modifications.



2 bottom views. Again, no evidence of modifications. Beautiful construction. Looks like an HP with the gold plated board.




Does it work? Sure does....extremely well. Just a few dirty spots on the pots. 



That mark on the front left of the case is damaged paint, not the remains of a label. But no other damage. I will defile and ruin it for future generations by giving it a fresh coat of paint.