Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

That's just... wow. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. Everything aboot the layout and the PCBs on that thing just feels like golden age Sony; but the chassis and CRT fixtures still feel Textronix.

It's like some unholy demon child... I want one.

mnem
 

His PCB is very close to 454A.

No, no... I dunno how to explain it. It's not just the gold-plated traces and the color of the FR4... it's something else; something you wouldn't recognize unless you spent years up to your elbows in various Sony commercial video monitors, cameras and recorders.

I'm talking about their golden age... when they were pretty much the undisputed gods of analog video and certain types of audio equipment. It's the type of components used, the parts density, even the way they're clustered together in groups and how those groups are laid out. I got to where I didn't even need to look at the part numbers; I could spot Sony PCBs in a pile of everything else.

It's like the difference between how Westerners & Japanese write verse and other structured documents.

Westerners write from left to right, the full page width, with a single idea collected together into a sprawling vertical mass of text separated by lots of vertical space for emphasis. Japanese writing in the traditional tategaki format is more than just columnar from right to left; it tends to be much more economical with whitespace and with words themselves; every one chosen carefully, packed closely together in tidy columns, and not a wasted syllable if they can help it.

At least, the translated works I've read seem this way to me... that is probably as much to do with the translation as the original work, I dunno.

The point I'm getting at... while we share the common language of engineering, they don't think the same way westerners do.

mnem
 

[med6753]

Urrrggghhh. I went to three Toys R Us... the last one a pilgrimage through a post-apocalyptic wasteland of a Mall downtown; where I had to park was literally absolutely the longest possible walk from the store... but I saved Christmas.

I've been looking for a particular Lego for the boi's wish list for 3 days... sold out online, aside from the scalpers who wanted almost $500 for it... ordered at my local T-R-U; got there, oh we're sorry... out of stock, canceled order. Went to the next closest one... same story. Evidently I got the last one in all of the GTA at the one in Dufferin Mall... and not ANY of the stores open so I could shop for alternate/additional toys due to Stage III lockdown again.

And after the Death March back out to my car... 42 minutes on the Ifni-accursed Don Mills Parkway before I could Escape from Downtown Toronto...

mnem
All y'alls can call me Snake Pliskin for the next couple days... I fucking earned it.

What, you still have Toys R Us, they closed down over this side of the pond a few years ago.

And they completely shut down in the U.S. last year. They still have them in Canada?

[mnementh]

A quick Grrgle indicate almost all of the original 83 stores still open in Canada, though rebranding as combined Toys R Us / Babies R Us. Approx 30 stores in Ontario.

It appears holding company Tru Kids owns these brands in the US, and is opening stores again in the US. There was one just opened at the Galleria in Houston when we left, and supposedly another in Paramus, NJ.

mnem

[mnementh]

Not home alone unfortunately. Just stuck on my own at work. Home alone never happens around here. It’s crawling with teenagers half the time 

Oh, that's when you go around the cubicle farm and mark your territory.

mnem
Obviously, make sure the switch supporting the camera network is having an outage first...

[cyclin_al]

Urrrggghhh. I went to three Toys R Us... the last one a pilgrimage through a post-apocalyptic wasteland of a Mall downtown; where I had to park was literally absolutely the longest possible walk from the store... but I saved Christmas.

I've been looking for a particular Lego for the boi's wish list for 3 days... sold out online, aside from the scalpers who wanted almost $500 for it... ordered at my local T-R-U; got there, oh we're sorry... out of stock, canceled order. Went to the next closest one... same story. Evidently I got the last one in all of the GTA at the one in Dufferin Mall... and not ANY of the stores open so I could shop for alternate/additional toys due to Stage III lockdown again.

And after the Death March back out to my car... 42 minutes on the Ifni-accursed Don Mills Parkway before I could Escape from Downtown Toronto...

mnem
All y'alls can call me Snake Pliskin for the next couple days... I fucking earned it.

That is exactly why I left Toronto.  Actually, 42 minutes does not sound bad.  Over on the west side, I recall sitting on the 403 for more than an hour.
Ottawa was much better, but has also declined.  Now I live further away.

I have also saved a Christmas by visiting T-R-U from Kanata to Orleans in a single outing 
Like you say, Christmas was saved 

[vk6zgo]

That's just... wow. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. Everything aboot the layout and the PCBs on that thing just feels like golden age Sony; but the chassis and CRT fixtures still feel Textronix.

It's like some unholy demon child... I want one.

mnem
 

His PCB is very close to 454A.

No, no... I dunno how to explain it. It's not just the gold-plated traces and the color of the FR4... it's something else; something you wouldn't recognize unless you spent years up to your elbows in various Sony commercial video monitors, cameras and recorders.

I'm talking about their golden age... when they were pretty much the undisputed gods of analog video and certain types of audio equipment. It's the type of components used, the parts density, even the way they're clustered together in groups and how those groups are laid out. I got to where I didn't even need to look at the part numbers; I could spot Sony PCBs in a pile of everything else.

It's like the difference between how Westerners & Japanese write verse and other structured documents.

Westerners write from left to right, the full page width, with a single idea collected together into a sprawling vertical mass of text separated by lots of vertical space for emphasis. Japanese writing in the traditional tategaki format is more than just columnar from right to left; it tends to be much more economical with whitespace and with words themselves; every one chosen carefully, packed closely together in tidy columns, and not a wasted syllable if they can help it.

At least, the translated works I've read seem this way to me... that is probably as much to do with the translation as the original work, I dunno.

mnem
 

Tektronix made the Furshlugginer!!    650 series picture monitors------the most diabolical disasters that ever left Beaverton!
They used a Trinitron, but that seemed to be the only contribution by Sony.
They should have been great, but everything  just seemed to be "off" in the design.

There were sheet after sheet of modifications issued, some replacing the earlier ones, so if you bound them, as my work did, they were nearly as thick as a phone book.

Sony made the pix monitor space in their VTR rack exactly right to fit a 650, so there were plenty around.

Over time the crappiness of these devices became obvious, so Sony brought out the BVM1301, which fitted perfectly in the same spot, was very reliable, & if it did need work, easy to work on.
The 650s ended up stacked up unused wherever there was space.

None of the Sony pix monitors were as pretty internally as their other equipment, (or the Tek 650 series) but they made up for it in performance.

The crown for crap picture monitors is disputed by other manufacturers, like Philips, Barco, Bosch, etc, but Tek is right up there!

[mnementh]

Now don't hold back there, vk6! Tell us how you really feel!

LOLOL! (IRL!)

mnem
 

[mnementh]

There aren't enough soggy ol' boots in all of Christendom...

Have you considered importing dusty old sandals from the Mohammedans?

Definitely not the correct footwear for the occasion. A properly soggy ol' boot... it is the perfect retaliation to a groaner such as you've mastered. If thrown properly it does not bounce off the recipient, but rather sortof "schlork!"s itself loose and slides off as punctuation after the initial impact. Classic vaudeville style, doncha know. 

I would not touch them with a pole. And I don't care much about the poles, either.

(Mr. Hazeltine in Billy Wilder's One Two Three)

My dad likes to say "I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot Pole... and we don't hardly grow that long."

mnem
*heeds Hypnos' siren call*

[med6753]

That Mongolian band mentioned here before has released a new song. Cover of Metallica "Sad But True"

Brilliantly done! 

[nfmax]

I'm talking about their golden age... when they were pretty much the undisputed gods of analog video and certain types of audio equipment. It's the type of components used, the parts density, even the way they're clustered together in groups and how those groups are laid out. I got to where I didn't even need to look at the part numbers; I could spot Sony PCBs in a pile of everything else.

I have a story to tell of exactly when the rot set in. A friend of mine, member of the academic staff at our local university, used to present a weekly 5 minute talk spot on the local BBC radio station, discussing something topical or interviewing someone interesting in the general field of science & engineering. One day, the studio engineer noticed that the off-air monitor was distorting, although the studio output was not. After much head scratching the two of them traced it to the FM receiver being used - a top-range Sony.

The outputs (L&R) were driven by bipolar OPAMPs in non-inverting configuration. The inputs to this stage were coupled through (top quality!) Al electrolytic capacitors, but there was no DC path to the OPAMP input. So the bias current had to flow through the leakage resistance of the capacitor, and this eventually drifted so high that the amplifier clipped. Bad enough. But the real killer was the service manual. The circuit diagram was annotated with the DC voltages at key points, and the left and right inputs were shown at (volts!) different values. But nobody had ever thought to ask why two identical circuits should have different values.

All downhill from then on.

[factory]

Any thoughts on $500 CAD for a pair of supposedly working Tek 422 & 454a scopes?
The pictures showing a trace look more like noise than an actual signal.
My thought is this price is much too high, but would half that be too much Ferengi.
I also have to consider travel distance; they are closer to Dwagon-land than to here.
Also, SWMBO would certainly object to the space taken up by two of the same thing.

I could be just looking for anything to break the drought on TE up here; a nixxie frequency counter would be a better acquisition but I still have never seen one...

How about a HP 5326B 50MHz timer counter/DVM? might need some work, some feet as it was rack mounted & replacement knob, but the listing does have "make offer". Note these later ones should be upgradeable with an oven reference (10544).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174560313203

David

Wow!  Good catch... for some reason I did not find that one.

My searching had recently turned up a HP5327B, but does not ship to the GWN.  Those in the US can have a go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-5327B-Timer-Counter-DVM-with-7-Digit-Nixie-Tube-Display/133490184504

@mnem or @25_CPS, any interest in the Tek 422 & 454a scope combo?  It might be closer to you than to me; listed on Kijiji

Odd that seller has removed the GSP from the 5327B & the very overpriced 5330B, but some other items still have it. 
Service manual for both the 5326B & 5327B at the bottom on the page here; https://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1248

Looks like Tony has an early 5326B too  (can't fit oven oscillator option in those);


David

[Robert763]

Ooh nasty. You were lucky there.

What scares me is the amount of stuff out there that is left with the filter powered 24/7/365. I religiously turn everything off in this place apart from the fridge and that scares me.

Is it possible that being on permanently means warm and not humid?

Yep,
I've had plenty of previously working kit fail at first switch on after time idle but very little fail while powered. I leave Voltage references, GPSDOs etc permanently powered.

[tonyalbus]

Any thoughts on $500 CAD for a pair of supposedly working Tek 422 & 454a scopes?
The pictures showing a trace look more like noise than an actual signal.
My thought is this price is much too high, but would half that be too much Ferengi.
I also have to consider travel distance; they are closer to Dwagon-land than to here.
Also, SWMBO would certainly object to the space taken up by two of the same thing.

I could be just looking for anything to break the drought on TE up here; a nixxie frequency counter would be a better acquisition but I still have never seen one...

How about a HP 5326B 50MHz timer counter/DVM? might need some work, some feet as it was rack mounted & replacement knob, but the listing does have "make offer". Note these later ones should be upgradeable with an oven reference (10544).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174560313203

David

Wow!  Good catch... for some reason I did not find that one.

My searching had recently turned up a HP5327B, but does not ship to the GWN.  Those in the US can have a go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-5327B-Timer-Counter-DVM-with-7-Digit-Nixie-Tube-Display/133490184504

@mnem or @25_CPS, any interest in the Tek 422 & 454a scope combo?  It might be closer to you than to me; listed on Kijiji

Odd that seller has removed the GSP from the 5327B & the very overpriced 5330B, but some other items still have it. 
Service manual for both the 5326B & 5327B at the bottom on the page here; https://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1248

Looks like Tony has an early 5326B too  (can't fit oven oscillator option in those);


David

5327B has a prescaler and does a up-to 500 Mhz this one the 5326B up-to 50 Mhz if i am correct..
When i opened it, i saw some nice shiny pcb's , i was told later it is gold plated.. thats why they are usualy still working
Good i did not know that i would maybe have done a bigger offer... which in the end was not needed, i have it now anyway 

[factory]

And something for the Fluke fanboys (still have zero Flukes here), a 8400A/FM voltmeter in the US; https://www.ebay.com/itm/353287773843

No idea how much it differs from the 8300A, but like most of those it looks to not include the ohms option.



And in the heavy duty boat anchor category & priced very high, a rack filled with some early HP calibration equipment, also has a couple of COHU DC standards, a HP audio signal generator and a Boonton beat frequency generator. https://www.ebay.com/itm/154220268183




David

[factory]

Odd that seller has removed the GSP from the 5327B & the very overpriced 5330B, but some other items still have it. 
Service manual for both the 5326B & 5327B at the bottom on the page here; https://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=1248

Looks like Tony has an early 5326B too  (can't fit oven oscillator option in those);


David

5327B has a prescaler and does a up-to 500 Mhz this one the 5326B up-to 50 Mhz if i am correct..
When i opened it, i saw some nice shiny pcb's , i was told later it is gold plated.. thats why they are usualy still working
Good i did not know that i would maybe have done a bigger offer... which in the end was not needed, i have it now anyway 

Yeah I know, I acquired a 5327B from the US a month or two ago, everything works apart from the 500MHz pre-scaler.
Also they aren't all working, my 5326B has a fault where it doesn't reset before the next reading is taken, they keep adding to the previous reading.    Some of the HP custom display counter IC's are also prone to failure too (used in many HP counters from this era), I was trying to make a replacement using other parts but can't get my head around the CAD software.

David

[med6753]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.



 

[Cerebus]

That is exactly why I left Toronto.  Actually, 42 minutes does not sound bad.  Over on the west side, I recall sitting on the 403 for more than an hour.
Ottawa was much better, but has also declined.  Now I live further away.

I've never understood how in a country with so much s-p-a-c-e that humanity still packs things together in a way that's guaranteed to cause congestion.

Just after WWII here in Blighty the one good thing the planners did was recognise that, in a world of motor vehicles, that was the wrong thing to do and we created the 'new towns' that were built away from other conurbations, laid out at low density, and had transport routes planned with motorised transport in mind. Planners being planners they still FSCKed it up in other ways and didn't think forward enough, but the new towns were, for a while, relatively successful.

[factory]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.

I forgot to mention one of the capacitors in my 5327B came pre-snapped off, a temporary/permanent bodge was installed* as I don't have a large enough single capacitor in my stock and all proper component suppliers over here have larger minimum orders since the virus took over normality.

*with three 16V 2200uF in smurf approved color (Nichicon BT).




And yes the display perspex is cracked & the frame slightly twisted, but at least it did come with all the options.


David

[mnementh]

Any thoughts on $500 CAD for a pair of supposedly working Tek 422 & 454a scopes?
The pictures showing a trace look more like noise than an actual signal.
My thought is this price is much too high, but would half that be too much Ferengi.
I also have to consider travel distance; they are closer to Dwagon-land than to here.
Also, SWMBO would certainly object to the space taken up by two of the same thing.

I could be just looking for anything to break the drought on TE up here; a nixxie frequency counter would be a better acquisition but I still have never seen one...

How about a HP 5326B 50MHz timer counter/DVM? might need some work, some feet as it was rack mounted & replacement knob, but the listing does have "make offer". Note these later ones should be upgradeable with an oven reference (10544).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174560313203

David

Wow!  Good catch... for some reason I did not find that one.

My searching had recently turned up a HP5327B, but does not ship to the GWN.  Those in the US can have a go:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-5327B-Timer-Counter-DVM-with-7-Digit-Nixie-Tube-Display/133490184504

@mnem or @25_CPS, any interest in the Tek 422 & 454a scope combo?  It might be closer to you than to me; listed on Kijiji

Sorry I missed this one until it showed up again in the crawl...

I'm afraid I can't right now; the 422 is just adorbs, but I literally have a corner in the living room and that's it. I'm at the point now of storing less-used gear in that shed I just built, and that was supposed to be so I could get all our bicycles and excess furniture out of a $200/mo stock & lock near the old house. 

As much as I'd love to help the guy out with some Xmas money... I need to keep it for our little monsters, I'm afraid.

mnem

[med6753]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.

I forgot to mention one of the capacitors in my 5327B came pre-snapped off, a temporary/permanent bodge was installed as I don't have a large enough single capacitor in my stock and all proper component suppliers over here have larger minimum orders since the virus took over normality.

Mouser has a minimum to the UK? They don't here.

[factory]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.

I forgot to mention one of the capacitors in my 5327B came pre-snapped off, a temporary/permanent bodge was installed as I don't have a large enough single capacitor in my stock and all proper component suppliers over here have larger minimum orders since the virus took over normality.

Mouser has a minimum to the UK? They don't here.

Yes they have a minimum of £33 for free shipping to the UK, unfortunately it takes a while before I need enough parts to make it worth while, those Nichicon BT capacitors were from the surplus stock I bought when work EOL'ed the lab.
Also keep finding suppliers have no stock of things I need too, making it harder to make an order with one company.

David

[med6753]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.

I forgot to mention one of the capacitors in my 5327B came pre-snapped off, a temporary/permanent bodge was installed as I don't have a large enough single capacitor in my stock and all proper component suppliers over here have larger minimum orders since the virus took over normality.

Mouser has a minimum to the UK? They don't here.

Yes they have a minimum of £33 for free shipping to the UK, unfortunately it takes a while before I need enough parts to make it worth while, those Nichicon BT capacitors were from the surplus stock I bought when work EOL'ed the lab.
Also keep finding suppliers have no stock of things I need too, making it harder to make an order with one company.

David

Oh OK. Free shipping isn't an option here but there is no minimum. There are several shipping choices but by far the best is UPS 2nd day at $7.99 USD. It's worth every cent because UPS is always on time unlike cheaper USPS which could be anywhere from 5 days or lost. 

[Cerebus]

I have a story to tell of exactly when the rot set in. A friend of mine, member of the academic staff at our local university, used to present a weekly 5 minute talk spot on the local BBC radio station, discussing something topical or interviewing someone interesting in the general field of science & engineering. One day, the studio engineer noticed that the off-air monitor was distorting, although the studio output was not. After much head scratching the two of them traced it to the FM receiver being used - a top-range Sony.

The outputs (L&R) were driven by bipolar OPAMPs in non-inverting configuration. The inputs to this stage were coupled through (top quality!) Al electrolytic capacitors, but there was no DC path to the OPAMP input. So the bias current had to flow through the leakage resistance of the capacitor, and this eventually drifted so high that the amplifier clipped. Bad enough. But the real killer was the service manual. The circuit diagram was annotated with the DC voltages at key points, and the left and right inputs were shown at (volts!) different values. But nobody had ever thought to ask why two identical circuits should have different values.

All downhill from then on.

A, I suspect, particularly Japanese corporate failure mode. Whereas you'd expect to get that kind of thing caught in a design review in a western company there's a failure mode that exists in highly hierarchic societies where if the error is made by a senior individual and gets spotted by a junior individual they will keep quiet out of respect. There's a documented series of failures on Korean airlines where the co-pilot (a junior) didn't correct errors that the pilot (a senior) made that didn't end well.

In Japan you can add to that the way they conduct any formal business meetings. Here, the substance of a meeting is discussed at the meeting. In Japan it's more often than not all been hammered out beforehand behind the scenes, often in other meetings between juniors working for the seniors having the meeting and the meeting proper is almost just a formal occasion where the previously agreed details are 'agreed'. The Japanese don't like surprises at business meetings and work, above all, to preserve a quiet, peaceful, consensus-building atmosphere. Whether this pattern is so engrained that it would spread to a design review meeting I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me; I've only ever had 'business' meetings with the Japanese not 'engineering' meetings.

[mnementh]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.

I forgot to mention one of the capacitors in my 5327B came pre-snapped off, a temporary/permanent bodge was installed* as I don't have a large enough single capacitor in my stock and all proper component suppliers over here have larger minimum orders since the virus took over normality.
*with three 16V 2200uF in smurf approved color (Nichicon BT).   

mnem
...and I think this guy would def approve:   

[factory]

I have one too, thanks to nixiefreqq. It works fine and I did a calibration after re-capping the PSU.

I forgot to mention one of the capacitors in my 5327B came pre-snapped off, a temporary/permanent bodge was installed as I don't have a large enough single capacitor in my stock and all proper component suppliers over here have larger minimum orders since the virus took over normality.

Mouser has a minimum to the UK? They don't here.

Yes they have a minimum of £33 for free shipping to the UK, unfortunately it takes a while before I need enough parts to make it worth while, those Nichicon BT capacitors were from the surplus stock I bought when work EOL'ed the lab.
Also keep finding suppliers have no stock of things I need too, making it harder to make an order with one company.

David

Oh OK. Free shipping isn't an option here but there is no minimum. There are several shipping choices but by far the best is UPS 2nd day at $7.99 USD. It's worth every cent because UPS is always on time unlike cheaper USPS which could be anywhere from 5 days or lost. 

The UK webpage says free delivery if the order is at least £33, €50 or $60, must be different in the US, I think those ex-work capacitors originated from either Digikey or Mouser, it would have been easy for them to get free shipping when they were ordering them in large quantities for the repair contracts they had.


David