Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

That definitely belongs on the Parts Cleaner line item... 

mnem
 

Yeah not a huge fan of Bundy rum either however......as Bambi season is fast approaching a procession of shooters are arriving to use our range for last minute checks to ensure they can hit Bambi at whatever range and turn up with expressions of Koha (gratitude) mostly in glass bottles. 

An all time fav materialized this morning ... a 40oz of Devils Cut which Larry Senior introduced me to on a visit to see him in Perth. Devils and Dry is something else and after decades of passing on wisdom to Larry Snr it's nice to get some back !    Wee sample coming later tonight after all jobbies are done. 

Hmmm... a neighbor back in Dumfuckistan introduced me to Devil's Cut as a sippin' whiskey, served warm (well, room temp in Houston is pretty warm) in a highball glass; he swore it was the best thing since Dickel. I took one sip and swore he'd lost his mind; at first I thought it was some half-breed shit with a dash of Schnapps, but too dry. Very aromatic, tho... and didn't take long before I reached the point where it didn't matter. Maybe mixed with ginger ale would tame it; definitely would sweeten it a bit.

I'll add that to the list. 

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

[beanflying]

This Gossen has been bugging me for months turning up is local evilbay trawls so I 'stopped it' from happening again  eBay auction: #264412062812

[tautech]

This Gossen has been bugging me for months turning up is local evilbay trawls so I 'stopped it' from happening again  eBay auction: #264412062812

Cute little thing it is too ......nah I'll stick with my Fluke. 

[mansaxel]

This Gossen has been bugging me for months turning up is local evilbay trawls so I 'stopped it' from happening again  eBay auction: #264412062812

The Gossens, Normas, and Hartmann & Brauns are really nice. I've got a H & B in vgc, and it's my goto-DC mA meter (together with the tropicalised RAF Avometer , unless I want to wait for the 428b to warm up. Typical use case is to monitor current consumption in small breadboards; the little meter on the PSU is not always so helpful. And DVM digits are nice for steady values.

[Zucca]

Just watched this:



"Our product is completely open source, even the Firmware. Schematics are always available for everybody. We think a laptop should last more than 10 years until it explodes basically."



System76, if only I knew penguin language better....

Also, something to keep watching...

[bd139]

Gah don’t even go there. I’ve said this before but “right to repair” is a not very elaborate con supported by manufacturers to shift their responsibility onto the end user for poor engineering as soon as possible.

They will laugh all the way to the bank while shouting “it’s out of warranty - here’s the schematics” when you knock that poorly chosen USB-C connector on the motherboard and damage it. Hint: they mostly aren’t replaceable or repairable these days. You’re then at the mercy of a network of idiots and morons to do your repairs.

We need better than a right to repair. We need the manufacturers to support the device for the full lifecycle with all costs covered including ones from crappy engineering decisions like mounting wear items like connectors on the motherboard of laptops etc.

Right to repair allows the manufacturers to abandon their support and push the responsibility onto people who are mostly incapable of repairing them. In fact even most of the people on this forum and professional engineers are incapable of repairing them as well.

And quite frankly who wants to use a 10 year old laptop?

Also Mr Rossman is there selling this ideology because he’s a salesman selling his repair product. He wants you to come to his business and wants the manufacturers to keep on with this crap because it fills his pockets. And some of his repairs are quite frankly shit. I’ve actually had a discussion with him about this on the forum 

In an ideal world:

1. When you buy anything it has a 72 hour replacement or service policy that lasts 5 years.
2. If they can’t replace it or service it in that time then the have to pay you the price of the item adjusted by use (linear value depreciation over time) and collect it from you at their cost.
3. Your contact is with the manufacturer directly and legally who have to set up a service system and contact centre before they can sell.
4. Manufacturer has to buy the item back from you at least 15% of the value for materials recycling at the end of the life.

[beanflying]

One of my soldering stations is giving me a bit of grief going into a random Error mode intermittently. Hanba badged but basically an Aoyue old school tips box with a fairly nice Hot air gun in it as well on side number two. I also have an Aoyue with a desoldering gun and the same Iron style on side two I would keep on the bench at this stage. The TS100 I have in my gear bag really does a better job in a lot of ways than either for soldering but its not really what I want on the bench.

So time to look for a new one -maybe. Pace ADS200 looks like a candidate but they run to just on $500USD locally. Everything I read about Quicko/KSGER T12 clones says likely PITA. Anything else between $2-500 that makes sense to look at?

Buying old School TEA is 'easy' if it has glowy red stuff in front in particular Nixie ones and lots of knobs then you do it and damm the consequences

[Brumby]

Gah don’t even go there. I’ve said this before but “right to repair” is a not very elaborate con supported by manufacturers

Manufacturers seem to be pushing back, not encouraging this.

to shift their responsibility onto the end user for poor engineering as soon as possible.

Yeah, it's called "Warranty period".

They will laugh all the way to the bank while shouting “it’s out of warranty - here’s the schematics”.

They are shouting: “it’s out of warranty - buy a new one”.  Providing schematics doesn't generate revenue.  Selling a new product does.

We need better than a right to repair.

I wouldn't argue against that - but it doesn't mean to the exclusion of a right to repair.

And quite frankly who wants to use a 10 year old laptop?

That is a question only people who are using a 10 year old laptop and want to hang on to it are qualified to answer.  Criticizing from the outside is inappropriate, IMO.

[bd139]

See my edits to the post - I expanded on a few things.

None of the manufacturers want to go first unless it backfires. That’s the only problem.

I have a 8 and 9 year old laptop here. They are horrid to use. No thanks! They’re only around  because they barely scrape the job of running some school stuff. But they had to have an SSD chucked in to make them even do that. And they were both £1500+ Mid range business grade units.

Ask people who are running a £300 disposable landfill laptop that’s ten years with eMMC shit in it. Oh there aren’t any. Race to the bottom.

Genuinely humans have a problem of garbage generation through short sightedness. This is a bigger problem than right to repair which isn’t going to turn our planet into a cyberpunk utopia instantly.

Edit: also system76 is just rebranded Sager crap which is rock bottom shite. They’re fine electrically but the usual design flaws persist as do the mechanical problems. And there are no large volumes of them to get parts on the grey market like Lenovo or HP for example.

Right to repair = buy an old thinkpad and parts off eBay still.

[Brumby]

I have no argument about your opinion on 8 and 9 year old machines.  I have the same opinion about an old laptop I have.  It's just that our opinion is just that - our opinion.

As for the claim of Louis Rossmann "selling his repair product" - how is he any different to a manufacturer?
 He is, at least, trying to offer customers more alternatives - and in that respect, I'm happy for him to do his best and let the market judge the value.  If the market is limited or non-existent then he's not going to get far - but if there is one (and his track record would indicate there is) then I'm happy to let someone service it.

[bd139]

One of my soldering stations is giving me a bit of grief going into a random Error mode intermittently. Hanba badged but basically an Aoyue old school tips box with a fairly nice Hot air gun in it as well on side number two. I also have an Aoyue with a desoldering gun and the same Iron style on side two I would keep on the bench at this stage. The TS100 I have in my gear bag really does a better job in a lot of ways than either for soldering but its not really what I want on the bench.

So time to look for a new one -maybe. Pace ADS200 looks like a candidate but they run to just on $500USD locally. Everything I read about Quicko/KSGER T12 clones says likely PITA. Anything else between $2-500 that makes sense to look at?

Buying old School TEA is 'easy' if it has glowy red stuff in front in particular Nixie ones and lots of knobs then you do it and damm the consequences

Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life.

I’ve had my Metcal PS900 for 2 years now. Zero issues. Comes up at $272 for a full kit on Newark.

It’s a “production” iron but fine for rework and prototyping stuff. Supplies for these irons are turning up on eBay as well now. Thanks to AVG I bagged two nice tips for under £10.

[bd139]

Can the Cal data be read off the unit via GPIB or RS232? Haven't looked but I know this is possible on some of the HP gear.

Yes but I don’t have a USB GPIB adapter handy.

[beanflying]

Can the Cal data be read off the unit via GPIB or RS232? Haven't looked but I know this is possible on some of the HP gear.

Yes but I don’t have a USB GPIB adapter handy.

Well off you go make one then there is an existing 'project' here 

Don’t even go near the T12 if you want a peaceful life.

I’ve had my Metcal PS900 for 2 years now. Zero issues. Comes up at $272 for a full kit on Newark.

It’s a “production” iron but fine for rework and prototyping stuff. Supplies for these irons are turning up on eBay as well now. Thanks to AVG I bagged two nice tips for under £10.

The t12 lot is more or less junked for me before I try it, I don't need to save money to lose the little hair I have. The more entry Level JBC Irons are similar prices to the Pace  but the tip prices locally suck badly.

[bd139]

I have no argument about your opinion on 8 and 9 year old machines.  I have the same opinion about an old laptop I have.  It's just that our opinion is just that - our opinion.

As for the claim of Louis Rossmann "selling his repair product" - how is he any different to a manufacturer?
 He is, at least, trying to offer customers more alternatives - and in that respect, I'm happy for him to do his best and let the market judge the value.  If the market is limited or non-existent then he's not going to get far - but if there is one (and his track record would indicate there is) then I'm happy to let someone service it.

My problem with Rossman is he’s doing these things at once and promoting it as a regular option when it should be the exceptional case. Firstly he passes MacGuyver repairs off as production. They should be used for data recovery and the hardware disposed of afterwards otherwise his customers risk more data loss. Bodge wiring around PCI express and RAM bus lines is a no! Secondly he is literally a predatory repair market ie the aforementioned short sighted humans who didn’t have insurance or extended warranties on expensive purchases. 

I can’t support that market as I know what goes on in it. Rossman is probably in the top 5% of reputable people in the market. But it’s a bell curve and the best are scary bad still.

He’s selling the repair industry as a lie which is getting a lot of attention.

[Brumby]

Can the Cal data be read off the unit via GPIB or RS232? Haven't looked but I know this is possible on some of the HP gear.

Yes but I don’t have a USB GPIB adapter handy.

Well off you go make one then there is an existing 'project' here 

I've been in that little corner for a while - plus I've gotta change the RIFAs and I need to check the battery.   

[Brumby]

I can’t support that market as I know what goes on in it. Rossman is probably in the top 5% of reputable people in the market. But it’s a bell curve and the best are scary bad still.

I don't deny there are shady practices, but that is true of any industry - and I don't just mean service and repair.

As I see it, because of the tightening grip of manufacturers, the shady practice capability has become a beneficial part of the scene.  I would like to think that once this grip has been eased, there will be an improved opportunity for less shadiness to emerge.

I did say "I would like to think".

[beanflying]

Can the Cal data be read off the unit via GPIB or RS232? Haven't looked but I know this is possible on some of the HP gear.

Yes but I don’t have a USB GPIB adapter handy.

Well off you go make one then there is an existing 'project' here 

I've been in that little corner for a while - plus I've gotta change the RIFAs and I need to check the battery.   

My Fake Agilent GPIB-USB is sitting idle at present and can go in a bag for a month or so's holiday if it helps. Apart from the 6632B everything else on the front bench is now running LAN or USB/Serial.

[BU508A]

Can the Cal data be read off the unit via GPIB or RS232? Haven't looked but I know this is possible on some of the HP gear.

Yes but I don’t have a USB GPIB adapter handy.

I can lend you mine, if you want:



https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3232606/#msg3232606

[ch_scr]

Can the Cal data be read off the unit via GPIB or RS232? Haven't looked but I know this is possible on some of the HP gear.

Yes but I don’t have a USB GPIB adapter handy.

You can also, in case you have to implement the cal-data dumping yourself anyway (I mean: If there is not already an application that is dependent on standard IEE488.2 drivers)
build this http://egirland.blogspot.com/2014/03/arduino-uno-as-usb-to-gpib-controller.html and have e.g. a python script dumping your cal data through gpib->arduino->usb-serial.
You do have an arduino and a 24-pin centronics connector handy , do you?

Edit: There is a script that should work here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-3478a-how-to-readwrite-cal-sram/msg1467114/#msg1467114

[bd139]

Thanks all for the offers to lend me USB GPIB adapters. I’d love to take up the offer but I expect that they’d probably get eaten by brexit customs at the moment.

Have lost two packages now which is not good.

As for the Arduino route that might work.

I am currently eyeing up an NI USB GPIB I can get for £112 at the moment with eBay offer which can be a permanent solution for both the counter and DMM and future acquisitions.

[Brumby]

Thanks all for the offers to lend me USB GPIB adapters. I’d love to take up the offer but ...

... I am fearful of the pressure of having to be somewhat prompt in performing the commensurate tasks.

There always seems to be something that gets in the way of TEA activities.  (More than this forum, which is bad enough in its own right.)

[beanflying]

Thanks all for the offers to lend me USB GPIB adapters. I’d love to take up the offer but ...

... I am fearful of the pressure of having to be somewhat prompt in performing the commensurate tasks.

There always seems to be something that gets in the way of TEA activities.  (More than this forum, which is bad enough in its own right.)

I am considering risking buying another clone to put on my soon to be extended fleet of VRefs and 34970 loggers so I can bring it forward should you need to extend the loan and I have a need

Not so much an enable - this time 

[tggzzz]

And quite frankly who wants to use a 10 year old laptop?

I'm writing this on a 2010 Samsung Atom 1.6GHz notebook running Xubuntu 14.LTS. The keyboard has a good feel and sculpted keys,and the battery life is >2.5 hours. The main disadvantage is that the screen is 800*600, but it has the advantqage of being too slow for Farcebook

I have a later notebook but it has a poor keyboard and runs Win7; I only use it for a few eval board drivers that are Win only (e.g. my £20 lmx2594 15GHz sig gen).

[tggzzz]

Thanks all for the offers to lend me USB GPIB adapters. I’d love to take up the offer but ...

... I am fearful of the pressure of having to be somewhat prompt in performing the commensurate tasks.

There always seems to be something that gets in the way of TEA activities.  (More than this forum, which is bad enough in its own right.)

I am considering risking buying another clone to put on my soon to be extended fleet of VRefs and 34970 loggers so I can bring it forward should you need to extend the loan and I have a need

Not so much an enable - this time 

Daisy chain the HPIB cables? :}

[beanflying]

Thanks all for the offers to lend me USB GPIB adapters. I’d love to take up the offer but ...

... I am fearful of the pressure of having to be somewhat prompt in performing the commensurate tasks.

There always seems to be something that gets in the way of TEA activities.  (More than this forum, which is bad enough in its own right.)

I am considering risking buying another clone to put on my soon to be extended fleet of VRefs and 34970 loggers so I can bring it forward should you need to extend the loan and I have a need

Not so much an enable - this time 

Daisy chain the HPIB cables? :}

Part of the project is moving the VRefs into a temp stable enclosure and area that is much more E noise free too so away from Steppers and as much switchmode type noise as possible. So a second to daisy chain the back bench/rack to the main PC is sort of needed at sometime.