Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tonyalbus]

@Tony
are you a pathologiest ?

To better understand, you need to open it ?

Just asking ...

Wanted to be a Corner... but i don't like people 

and i will never understand them

[ch_scr]

[...]
Regardless. Anyone who thinks they're going to get decent sound out of little tinny 3 inch speakers should consider buying this bridge. 

Well wonders of modern sound engineering like passive cones and sound processing (digital predistortion) and the ability to make them all the same, quite precisely, makes thingys like the "Bose Soundlink" sound quite good. A lot better really than they should for the size. Sadly, the Bose soundlink is really nasty to get replacement batterys for, working ones that is. Have a broken one here with that error. Powers on but refuses to work if it can't talk to the battery

[mansaxel]

[...]
Regardless. Anyone who thinks they're going to get decent sound out of little tinny 3 inch speakers should consider buying this bridge. 

Well wonders of modern sound engineering like passive cones and sound processing (digital predistortion) and the ability to make them all the same, quite precisely, makes thingys like the "Bose Soundlink" sound quite good. A lot better really than they should for the size. Sadly, the Bose soundlink is really nasty to get replacement batterys for, working ones that is. Have a broken one here with that error. Powers on but refuses to work if it can't talk to the battery

I'm with med here -- there is no substitute for doing it right. The new-fangled engineering can produce less undesirable compromises that in some use cases might produce a convincing physics-law-bending illusion. I'm constantly impressed by my work computer -- a 16" Intel Macbook Pro. It's got the best laptop speaker sound I've ever heard. But it's no match for my small bookshelf speakers driven by a Quad 303 amp.

There are two problems here;

• The "stereo" thing that our parents fought for is dead. I'm old and crusty enough to have experienced stereo for real, the intoxicating rush that good stereo reproduction gives. It's the difference between "yeah, ok" and "This is so good that I'm crying and the hairs stand up all over me"
• Those small things sound "like bass". They don't make real bass. That's the realm of 18" drivers in large cabinets built from 18mm Baltic birch plywood, with lots of clever bracing. And an amp worth its salt.

I used to do this for a living. I know what it should be and that Bose/others crap, well it ain't.

Finally; there is nothing wrong with using all the fine, dandy science paired with good quality components, and enough cabinet volume, mass and power to make the engineering compromises less drastic. The work done to reduce distortion and increase SPL per truck pack meter for live sound would not be possible without DSP cleverness and lots of real engineering work.

Good modern studio monitors (This does include the NS-1000M, but not the crapola NS-10M), which are the tools that Audiophools refuse to buy because they're not fancy and they're precise, no-nonsense TE style reproduction equipment, are another example.

[BU508A]

Today assembly: a pair of Kelvin leads, made with RG316 cable.

Reason for RG316: shielding and PTFE insulation. The separate connection to the shielding gives me the ability to ground the shielding or to use it as a guard.

I've tested it with the Vishay 1M 0.005% VHA516-6T and a Burster 100k 0.05% resistor.
Sadly, my DMM7510 is doing 4W measurements only up to the 100k range and my 1M resistors are all ca. 30 - 40 Ohms above 1MOhm, so I've measured it in 2W mode (4W mode is giving me an overflow).

The cables:


Measurements, 0Ohm (shorting the Kelvin clips), 1MOhm, 100kOhm

[Specmaster]

[...]
Regardless. Anyone who thinks they're going to get decent sound out of little tinny 3 inch speakers should consider buying this bridge. 

Well wonders of modern sound engineering like passive cones and sound processing (digital predistortion) and the ability to make them all the same, quite precisely, makes thingys like the "Bose Soundlink" sound quite good. A lot better really than they should for the size. Sadly, the Bose soundlink is really nasty to get replacement batterys for, working ones that is. Have a broken one here with that error. Powers on but refuses to work if it can't talk to the battery

I'm with med here -- there is no substitute for doing it right. The new-fangled engineering can produce less undesirable compromises that in some use cases might produce a convincing physics-law-bending illusion. I'm constantly impressed by my work computer -- a 16" Intel Macbook Pro. It's got the best laptop speaker sound I've ever heard. But it's no match for my small bookshelf speakers driven by a Quad 303 amp.

There are two problems here;

• The "stereo" thing that our parents fought for is dead. I'm old and crusty enough to have experienced stereo for real, the intoxicating rush that good stereo reproduction gives. It's the difference between "yeah, ok" and "This is so good that I'm crying and the hairs stand up all over me"
• Those small things sound "like bass". They don't make real bass. That's the realm of 18" drivers in large cabinets built from 18mm Baltic birch plywood, with lots of clever bracing. And an amp worth its salt.

I used to do this for a living. I know what it should be and that Bose/others crap, well it ain't.

Finally; there is nothing wrong with using all the fine, dandy science paired with good quality components, and enough cabinet volume, mass and power to make the engineering compromises less drastic. The work done to reduce distortion and increase SPL per truck pack meter for live sound would not be possible without DSP cleverness and lots of real engineering work.

Good modern studio monitors (This does include the NS-1000M, but not the crapola NS-10M), which are the tools that Audiophools refuse to buy because they're not fancy and they're precise, no-nonsense TE style reproduction equipment, are another example.

Now here's the thing, no one is I think disagreeing with you or Med about a decent audio / Hi-Fi system being the best and can knock all the Bose etc  gear into a cocked hat, but it is still a fact that modern sound systems such as BT speakers, Bose docks, Alexa and I suspect Google speakers etc can be perfectly OK for the not so serious listening times. Yes of course, if you have the time to sit down in the optimum location and listen to proper decent equipment, then the music is going to be so much clearer, crisper with instruments more locatable on the sound stage. But if you are going to be doing other things while listening to music, be it reading, decorating, washing up the dinner dishes, sitting at the bench working on your latest project, then the sound produced by these none Hi-Fi systems as described already are perfectly suited. The music is then playing in the background and your attention is focused on the task in hand whatever that happens to be. I have heard many of the cheaper BT speakers and I can honestly say that music coming out of my Alexa Echo (not the Alexa Dot) is far superior to those cheap BT systems.

When watching normal TV, I'm quite happy to have the TV sound, but if I sit down to watch a film from beginning to end, then I will always switch on the cinema sound system and immerse myself in the whole experience of high quality video and sound.

[tautech]

Shitty wet day and no stock to sell until more arrives so perfect to get on with long delayed projects like the 74HC14 pulser that's been on the backburner for far too long ! 

Shelved 'cause our laminator shit itself and the good wife has since replaced it only for the replacement not to generate enough heat for successful toner transfers !   

So out comes a clothes iron.....wish me luck. 

And a screenshot looks like poo ! 

[cyclin_al]

found a Sony TA-E 88B preamp. Will inspect tomorrow and pick it up if it is in working condition.

1 KPesos, quite a lot for a preamp built in 1979. But that was when Sony built absolutely top notch stuff, and this is one of their absolute creme de la creme.

Nice.
I lusted for a Sony TA-88 amp as a teen but couldn't ever bring myself to shell out for one. 

No No, they were dreadful things, terrible sound quality and those sliders were dust magnets, better options could be had with the TA70, albeit less power output but a far better design and built quality.

Yes we all well know that today but back in the '70's sliders were the the in thing.
Wouldn't dream of buying one now as those days of being young, dumb and full of cum are long gone.

Slider pots are fine, as long as you're paying upwards of £200 a piece for Penny & Giles ones. 

I've made mixing desks where the faders were about 50% of the BOM cost, Sifam PPM meters another 20%, leaving another 30% for the actual electronics, connectors and (custom) metalwork.

Oh hell yeah, but then you are talking about professional V consumer grade sliders. I remember having an Amstrad  7000 tape deck and after a couple of years those sliders sucked dust like it was snorting cocaine   

That is the exact same unit my parents still have.  Only thing is, I do not remember the Amstrad name on it.  I will have to take a look next visit ... if we ever get the clearance to travel again...

[beanflying]

You know you have too much stuff when you can't recall WTF this lovely little tool is used for! I have a set of 3, 4 and 5mm.  It looks like a tap but has no flutes, its cross section profile is hexagonal.? Copper tap?
Can someone let me out of my mystery? Thanks.

The term 'thread rolling' applies to external threads, whereas the process in question is normally referred to as 'thread forming'. Makes nice threads with nearly no debris and unbroken frain flow, but AFAIK not suitable for manual application.

Going WAY WAY back in time when there was 'proper' Bike Shops it was normal to have a thread rolling machine in the shop, lop the spokes to length then use it to spin a thread on the end. Also really handy for a broke Student wannabe R/C pilot at the time as the offcuts worked great for control linkages. Ok trip down memory lane over 

[mansaxel]

but it is still a fact that modern sound systems such as BT speakers, Bose docks, Alexa and I suspect Google speakers etc can be perfectly OK for the not so serious listening times.

To me, there are only serious listening times. Occupational injury from working in the field.

[med6753]

but it is still a fact that modern sound systems such as BT speakers, Bose docks, Alexa and I suspect Google speakers etc can be perfectly OK for the not so serious listening times.

To me, there are only serious listening times. Occupational injury from working in the field.

Agreed. When I want to listen to music.....I LISTEN TO THE MUSIC. Usually very loud. But I can't stand having music droning in the background when I'm working at the bench. Nor do I rarely have it on when driving. My first priority is concentrating on driving and I find music too distracting. I really don't understand some individuals need to have music playing all the time no matter what they're doing. It drives me up the wall. I guess I'm weird. And earbuds? Forget it.       

To me, silence is golden. 

[johnh]

You know you have too much stuff when you can't recall WTF this lovely little tool is used for! I have a set of 3, 4 and 5mm.  It looks like a tap but has no flutes, its cross section profile is hexagonal.? Copper tap?
Can someone let me out of my mystery? Thanks.

Rolling tap, does not cut but instead deforms the material so that you get a stronger thread in soft material. Typically used in soft things like plastic, aluminium or yes even copper. Looks like it has a hard nitride coating so it lasts longer in the stiffer materials, or if you use it in thin steel to get a better thread.

Now i know what they are for. I will have to look through my Father inlaw's shed again   He passed away a few ago. 
His larger lathe and mill were sold when had a stroke about 10 years back.  But, I  picked up unimat 3 lathe with accessories

[BU508A]

but it is still a fact that modern sound systems such as BT speakers, Bose docks, Alexa and I suspect Google speakers etc can be perfectly OK for the not so serious listening times.

To me, there are only serious listening times. Occupational injury from working in the field.

Agreed. When I want to listen to music.....I LISTEN TO THE MUSIC. Usually very loud. But I can't stand having music droning in the background when I'm working at the bench. Nor do I rarely have it on when driving. My first priority is concentrating on driving and I find music too distracting. I really don't understand some individuals need to have music playing all the time no matter what they're doing. It drives me up the wall. I guess I'm weird. And earbuds? Forget it.       

To me, "Silence is Golden - The Tremeloes". 

Fixed that for you. 

[capt bullshot]

In other news - GPSDO vs. radio clock short term comparison

So I've pulled the Rubidium reference (Efratom FRS-C) from the pile of stuff and used it to compare the GPSDO 10MHz output to my radio clock 10MHz output:





Counter reference input is connected to the rubidium, input from GPSDO, then radio clock.
Left hand side of the plot is the GPSDO, in the middle I've switched the counter input to the radio clock. The radio clock was synchronized to the DCF77 signal.
Looks like a stable and low noise control signal pays in terms of short term stability. Looks like it's drifting a bit, but this is due to the DCF77 received phase was drifting a bit, too. Will see what it looks like over the daytime.

[VK5RC]

You know you have too much stuff when you can't recall WTF this lovely little tool is used for! I have a set of 3, 4 and 5mm.  It looks like a tap but has no flutes, its cross section profile is hexagonal.? Copper tap?
Can someone let me out of my mystery? Thanks.

Rolling tap, does not cut but instead deforms the material so that you get a stronger thread in soft material. Typically used in soft things like plastic, aluminium or yes even copper. Looks like it has a hard nitride coating so it lasts longer in the stiffer materials, or if you use it in thin steel to get a better thread.

Now i know what they are for. I will have to look through my Father inlaw's shed again   He passed away a few ago. 
His larger lathe and mill were sold when had a stroke about 10 years back.  But, I  picked up unimat 3 lathe with accessories

Good to hear that you kept some of your FIL's stuff. A lot of good metal working gear gets tossed by stressed family at the time of bereavement - just like TE. One of the reasons to keep the gear (both electronic and mechanical) in good condition is that it will reflect its true value to someone who doesn't know.
I use some of my  father's gear with respect and hope a little of that continues - but it is a challenge with three daughters.

[Wolfgang]

@Tony
are you a pathologiest ?

To better understand, you need to open it ?

Just asking ...

Wanted to be a Corner... but i don't like people 

and i will never understand them

If you dont like people why not become a coroner ? There a few other jobs where you are legally allowed to cut them into pieces 

[vk6zgo]

@Tony
are you a pathologiest ?

To better understand, you need to open it ?

Just asking ...

Wanted to be a Corner... but i don't like people 

and i will never understand them

If you dont like people why not become a coroner ? There a few other jobs where you are legally allowed to cut them into pieces 

In the UK & Australia, the Coroner is the legal officer (like a magistrate) who conducts a court enquiry into the cause of a death.

The equivalent of a "coroner" from other countries is a pathologist or Medical Examiner.
Such people, along with other experts, will give evidence in a "Coroner's Court".

[beanflying]

Free Plug for the Sydney mob who needs to add dusty paper to their shalves. Waves at Brumby  eBay auction: #144067177378



And this is just a very tidy thing from an almost past era and it's Russian I guess too eBay auction: #124760237999

[kj7e]

Speaking of making test leads, made some properly guarded test leads for the HP 4332A LCR meter.

Used a Pomona 2970-0 triple banana jack, some RG316 PTFE coax and a pair of Pomona 4176-02 minigrabbers.  The guard stops inside the red grabber.  Works really well to measure small values, like 2.5pF.  The unknown low lead, needs to be capacitively coupled to the guard.

[Brumby]

Free Plug for the Sydney mob who needs to add dusty paper to their shalves. Waves at Brumby  eBay auction: #144067177378

Hmmm... Just cleared a bit of shelf - more than enough for that collection.  Now on my watch list - and have asked the seller if pick-up is available.


This has a better chance of success from Bean the enabler than his last attempt .... a CNC table.  It was missing tools and mainboard, but wasn't too far away to consider.  It went for $355 Aussie pesos.  What killed it for my interest is that I would have had to completely empty a rather full garage to make room for it.  It was a somewhat generous 4.2m x 2.4m.    Oooff. 

[DC1MC]

@Tony
are you a pathologiest ?

To better understand, you need to open it ?

Just asking ...

Wanted to be a Corner... but i don't like people 

and i will never understand them

If you dont like people why not become a coroner ? There a few other jobs where you are legally allowed to cut them into pieces 

The coroners have a lot of troubles with the Covid pandemic and working from home, there are a lot of their neighbors complaining.... 

[mnementh]

@Tony    are you a pathologiest ?   To better understand, you need to open it ?   Just asking ...

Wanted to be a Corner... but i don't like people     and i will never understand them

If you don't like people why not become a coroner ? There a few other jobs where you are legally allowed to cut them into pieces 

When I first saw that post, I read "Tony, are you pathological...?"   Then I though aboot the question, and where we're talking and... 

mnem

[Kosmic]

You know you have too much stuff when you can't recall WTF this lovely little tool is used for! I have a set of 3, 4 and 5mm.  It looks like a tap but has no flutes, its cross section profile is hexagonal.? Copper tap?
Can someone let me out of my mystery? Thanks.

Rolling tap, does not cut but instead deforms the material so that you get a stronger thread in soft material. Typically used in soft things like plastic, aluminium or yes even copper. Looks like it has a hard nitride coating so it lasts longer in the stiffer materials, or if you use it in thin steel to get a better thread.

Now i know what they are for. I will have to look through my Father inlaw's shed again   He passed away a few ago. 
His larger lathe and mill were sold when had a stroke about 10 years back.  But, I  picked up unimat 3 lathe with accessories

Good to hear that you kept some of your FIL's stuff. A lot of good metal working gear gets tossed by stressed family at the time of bereavement - just like TE. One of the reasons to keep the gear (both electronic and mechanical) in good condition is that it will reflect its true value to someone who doesn't know.
I use some of my  father's gear with respect and hope a little of that continues - but it is a challenge with three daughters.

I saw an old Victoria milling machine for 600$ in the classified ads recently. I was so tempted but I don't have the place. I'm not sure of the exact weight but they look so heavy. I would probably need a garage with easy access to have a machine like that.

[med6753]

No TEA here today. Had to run errands before it got too hot and now inside domestic stuff such as sweeping, vacuuming (Hoovering), dusting, etc. It's noon here and temp is 90 F (32 C) and rising. Of course the A/C is on and it's a comfortable 75 F (24 C) in here. 

I may jinx myself for saying this but the A/C in the 2004 Honda Civic has NEVER been recharged and still works a treat after 17 years and 192,000 miles (308,994 km).

Either tomorrow or Wednesday I will be diving back into the Type 547. Oculus has provided me with some internal pictures of his functional Type 547. I have a suspicion that there was a prior attempt by a Gorilla to repair my scope and of course screwed it up.     

[AVGresponding]

Sadly, my DMM7510 is doing 4W measurements only up to the 100k range and my 1M resistors are all ca. 30 - 40 Ohms above 1MOhm, so I've measured it in 2W mode (4W mode is giving me an overflow).

At those sort of resistances the difference between 2 and 4 wire is going to be down in the noise anyway?   

[mansaxel]

I saw an old Victoria milling machine for 600$ in the classified ads recently. I was so tempted but I don't have the place. I'm not sure of the exact weight but they look so heavy. I would probably need a garage with easy access to have a machine like that.

A milling machine is missing in my workshop, but I've decided to get my lathe working first. And getting the lathe together requires pouring a concrete floor. So I've put it in the repair queue...  To even get the lathe in I had to buy a hand pallet truck which now is on long-loan to my neighbour, who actually has a milling machine, and a lathe.

Talk about a long-time project.

Edit: When you get the machine working, then comes the fun part of buying tooling. *shudder*