Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mansaxel]

From what I've seen at BOC gasses, it's with x-rays then in a fk-off big stronk containment cage behind a blast shield. or two... 

Sounds like the procedure for acetylene. Those vessels are not only void inside. ("A porous mass and acetone" according to local gasses company)  An air receiver or a similar simpler pressure vessel, there's water in operation, like Tautech wrote.

[tggzzz]

Math being universal and undeniable, it's the most reliable way of eliminating confusing.

Ask people what is "1+2*3"? Include teachers

I ask them back---"Where are the brackets?"

The slightly more clued up ask that, and I reply "no brackets, just the normal laws of arithmetic".

Yes, after I wrote that, I remembered the order of operations, (it's been a long time) but still think it is a Smartarse trick to omit them.
After all, if clarity can be best served by using brackets, why "spoil the boat for a Hap'orth of tar"?

I disagree. You should use the minimum number of symbols/characters for the standard, and expect that the audience knows what they mean. If you mean a non-standard interpretation, then that needs to be stated. BEDMAS is the standard for arithmetic; many calculators don't follow it.

If not, then presumably you think \$a b + c d\$ is different to \$(a b) + (c d)\$ ?

BTW, I've asked "what is one plus two times three?", not used any written symbols. That also avoids the possibility/embarrassment of using google

[med6753]

Someone please tell me this idiot is trolling: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/heres-a-gas-pressure-vessel-can-i-get-some-advice/

I took a quick scan of that person's posts in general.  It does look like they have a habit of trolling, or at least playing the role of acting like an idiot.

The topic in that thread is concerning enough that I am a bit surprised it has gone for 4 pages without a moderator getting involved?

Or anyone advising how to properly test a pressure vessel. 

Perhaps it's best to let Darwin run it's course but that may put others in harm's way.

[med6753]

[Robert763]

I think you missed the point, the item is not sold so no money paid, no gain no fraud.

The "no gain no fraud" doesn't wash, as anyone jailed for attempted fraud will tell you. [Criminal Attempts Act 1981 and previously common law]

The only time it is illegal is if there is a single real bidder and the auctioneer does not sell as soon as the reserve is met. No one is making the real bidder bid more.  I agree it's not good practice  but its done. The moral issue is that it could make the unwary bidder think th item is worh more because someone else is bidding - auction fever.

Yes exactly, that's the deception and it's sufficient for mens rhea that one is reckless as to the consequences of an actus rheus. Although the auctioneer might be intending to merely 'puff up' to the reserve and not intending to inflate the price beyond what is reasonable, if they do so it's misrepresentation caused purely by their acts.

Also remember consumer and retail law does not apply to auctions in the UK.

Yes, but criminal law does.

It is indeed very similar to proxy bidding on an item with a reserve on ebay. For example consider an item listed at 99p start and £60 reserve.  If I Bid £10 the bid stays at 99p and reserve not met. If someone else bids £9.99 it goes to me at £10 but still reserve not met. If I then increse my limit to £55 nothing changes, but if I increase to £65 the bid will jump to £60 to me with reserve met even if no one else bids.

The difference is that you know that you are bidding up to find the reserve and deliberately accepting the risk of placing a bid knowing that you have granted eBay permission to place proxy bids on your behalf. If the reserve is crazy you won't bid up to it, and nobody else's bids are convincing you that you have underestimated the true price of the item in question. That's a world of difference from the auctioneer inserting a fictitious bid with the hope that a real bidder will follow.

Any way you cut this if the auctioneer deliberate drives up the price, that is what they are doing, deliberately driving up the price. Their rôle is to be an impartial arbiter between the sellers and buyers. As soon as they act partially, while still presenting an apparent facade of impartiality, they are engaging in deception. That is behaviour that reaches the standard of criminality, ask anyone who's passed their criminal law and jurisprudence exams.

Hiding a reserve is not attempted fraud because they are not expecting a bid. If it is bid up to the reserve and sold the auctioneer / seller is not trying to make more money so no benefit and no intention to get benefit so no fraud or attempted fraud. If the bidder does not know what their limit is that is their probem.

I can't find anything to say that the presence of a reserve has to be declared. It is very clear however that the value of a reserve does not have to be revealed.
Another perspective:
An item that I want has a reserve (value not to be revealed to bidders, but lets say £50) I want the item at up to £100. Other bidders drop out at £30. Unless the auctioneer bids to the back wall I don't get to buy the item so I loose out. If he bids the wall until I hit reserve I win because I get the item and the reserve confidentiality is preserved. Yes it could be abused and tht would be fraud.
I  guess we will have agree to disagree. I can't prove a negative and I'm not going looking for case law to prove your point 

[AVGresponding]

Yes current clamps good... I need one or two. Problem is that prices have skyrocketed due to a shortage on the used market, caused by Robert collecting them all selfishly.

Even with his garage completely full, he still buys more and more of them, there is no stopping him. It's the Putin of current clamps. Only way to make him let his TE go is to cut his income (will talk to his boss about that), so that he is forced to sell all of his TE to get money for food. I think that's the only way to solve the problem... we need to starve him....

 

I had a good look around, and was very tempted for the PZ 58 pliers.  I could only find them in the UK or Japan, far far away from the GWN.
Add in shipping, and it became just too much.  I will be watching these in case anything does show up closer to home at a more reasonable price (which means still expensive).

Are Knipex available there? Their TwinGrip design might be a copy of the Japanese original, but they are still a fine quality tool.

[Specmaster]

Would have thought those canisters should have had some sort of water spray playing on them to try and prevent that from happening.

[Robert763]

<SNIP>

Yeah that would be great, keep me updated !
Your pics show a two row connector but otherwise looks very similar to what I need !    right angle, round pins, PCB mount, one bolt at each end, same shape same colour... must be it.

I have just buttoned up the donour and took some macro shots of the connectors then took a few measurements with the calipers so I can post a thread about that on the forum, somewhere.

I measured, on the male/plugin board connector :

- Single row, 16 pins.
- Round pins, diameter 1.5mm
- Length of the pins (max length, including the conical/rounded tip ) : about 6.5mm.
- Pitch :  about 4mm. Should be quite accurate : measured the overall length of all 16 pins, 61.3mm, remove one diameter, about 60mm, divided by 15 intervals... 4mm.

Some bad news, measured the Smiths connector on the MM/INS readout board, the overall length of the 16 pins is 77.7mm (pitch is 5.08mm 0.1")  , pin length & diameter is the same however. They are two separate connectors stacked, top one has longer right angle pins.

David
[/quote]

FTFY looks like Vince has a metric version and you have imperial

[AVGresponding]

<SNIP>

Yeah that would be great, keep me updated !
Your pics show a two row connector but otherwise looks very similar to what I need !    right angle, round pins, PCB mount, one bolt at each end, same shape same colour... must be it.

I have just buttoned up the donour and took some macro shots of the connectors then took a few measurements with the calipers so I can post a thread about that on the forum, somewhere.

I measured, on the male/plugin board connector :

- Single row, 16 pins.
- Round pins, diameter 1.5mm
- Length of the pins (max length, including the conical/rounded tip ) : about 6.5mm.
- Pitch :  about 4mm. Should be quite accurate : measured the overall length of all 16 pins, 61.3mm, remove one diameter, about 60mm, divided by 15 intervals... 4mm.

Some bad news, measured the Smiths connector on the MM/INS readout board, the overall length of the 16 pins is 77.7mm (pitch is 5.08mm 0.1")  , pin length & diameter is the same however. They are two separate connectors stacked, top one has longer right angle pins.

David

FTFY looks like Vince has a metric version and you have imperial
[/quote]

5.08mm is 0.2"

[tggzzz]

An item that I want has a reserve (value not to be revealed to bidders, but lets say £50) I want the item at up to £100. Other bidders drop out at £30. Unless the auctioneer bids to the back wall I don't get to buy the item so I loose out. If he bids the wall until I hit reserve I win because I get the item and the reserve confidentiality is preserved.

Yes, that is my use case, and I have no problem with it.

My abuse case would be if shill/wall bidding made you pay more than the reserve price - as you imply.

[Robert763]

Doh 

[Robert763]

Yes current clamps good... I need one or two. Problem is that prices have skyrocketed due to a shortage on the used market, caused by Robert collecting them all selfishly.

Even with his garage completely full, he still buys more and more of them, there is no stopping him. It's the Putin of current clamps. Only way to make him let his TE go is to cut his income (will talk to his boss about that), so that he is forced to sell all of his TE to get money for food. I think that's the only way to solve the problem... we need to starve him....

 

I had a good look around, and was very tempted for the PZ 58 pliers.  I could only find them in the UK or Japan, far far away from the GWN.
Add in shipping, and it became just too much.  I will be watching these in case anything does show up closer to home at a more reasonable price (which means still expensive).

Are Knipex available there? Their TwinGrip design might be a copy of the Japanese original, but they are still a fine quality tool.

I don't buy ALL of them. The seller I got the LEM PR30 (Fluke i30s) off had a PR200 that I didn't and a PR1001 that is still for sale.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165326927521
I didn't buy those because I already have those ranges covered. Likewise the have been some HEME 1000s recently.

I actually used the PR30 on Wednesday (at work  ). It allowed confirmation that some brand new bought in components had been manufactured incorrectly 

[mnementh]

Only reason to buy a brand new Chinese meter would be...

1) You don't mind the cheap and childish look and feel.
2) You absolutely want a warranty on your product.
3) You don't care about reputation / track record / reliability.
4) You want it right now, in brand new condition, you don't want to search for month and month for a used item.... which is very understandable !

Well, then, you clearly haven't bothered to do your research (amazing what you'll find here on eevBlog ) , or you'd know that there are a number of Chinesium meters that stand up every bit as well as the "name brands", and many that do so at 10% the price.

Sorry dood... dismissing them out of hand is exactly as nonsensical as the "brand loyalty" you claim not to have, yet exhibit in spades. You know them The Metrix product line), you like them, and you feel they provide good value for dollar. That is a form of brand loyalty, whether you want to admit it or not.

mnem
 

Looks like you again did not read me, be it about brand loyalty or chinese stuff. The old Dwagon is back   

Think what you want as always, I don't care... unlike some, I don't enjoy arguing endlessly with you, who alwya swnat to have the final word, when you clearly don't understand / read / ignore  what I write and instead just want to force your narrative on me. That will be without me, I quit right there, have fun.

Give me the new 2022 Dwagon back please.

I did read you. Every word that you said.

This is not about personality conflict, or me being mean. It is about you repeatedly making overly broad opinionated statements, then when when someone calls you on them, you instantly go into defensive mode.

If it's me, you say I'm being a bad dwagon. Yet if someone else calls you on it, you sometimes change your tack.

Seriously dood... you really do take everything I say to you in the worst possible light; and for the umpteenth time, that just isn't me. I try to be generally positive, and if you actually stepped back and looked you'd see that.

I have to post only content completely devoid of any opinion to avoid that reaction from you, and I'm sorry... that's a ridiculously high bar, particularly for this space, where that kind of "around the water-cooler" talk that is exactly what it is all about.

For the sake of everybody who frequents this space, please... stop assuming the worst of me. This is supposed to be discussion, and if you can't operate in here under the assumption that others intend to be helpful, then you're going to continue to be offended where no offense was meant.

And yes, I'm not the only one who's noticed this, and I'm also not the only one who's noticed that you have made an effort to dial back the drama knob.

Except with me. There it does seem to be set as high as ever.


mnem
Walking on eggshells is nasty; they're all crunchy and sticky. And it smells like wet dwagon.

[med6753]

This sucks. I thought we were done with this crap.  Could be upwards of 6 inches or more and later the wind will kick up and blow it into drifts. Lots of fun.



Starting Monday supposedly temperatures will rise into the 50's F and near 60 F. I won't hold my breath. 

Also, at least here tonight we go back to DST.

[cyclin_al]

I had a good look around, and was very tempted for the PZ 58 pliers.  I could only find them in the UK or Japan, far far away from the GWN.
Add in shipping, and it became just too much.  I will be watching these in case anything does show up closer to home at a more reasonable price (which means still expensive).

Are Knipex available there? Their TwinGrip design might be a copy of the Japanese original, but they are still a fine quality tool.

That is an alternative, but even more expensive than the Neji-saurus.  Similarly, I could only find them in the USA or UK.  Not so far away this time, but the shipping is still over the top.

[cyclin_al]

This sucks. I thought we were done with this crap.  Could be upwards of 6 inches or more and later the wind will kick up and blow it into drifts. Lots of fun.



Starting Monday supposedly temperatures will rise into the 50's F and near 60 F. I won't hold my breath. 

Also, at least here tonight we go back to DST.

Huh?  What happened to the existing snow?  We got about 5 inches, and the wind is starting to pick up.  Just in time to go to ski lessons.
However, our snow banks are still 4 feet high...  there is no well head visible at my place.

[Zucca]

Do you buy from a seller on Ebay who does not respond to your messages/questions?

Risky risky.....

[med6753]

Huh?  What happened to the existing snow?  We got about 5 inches, and the wind is starting to pick up.  Just in time to go to ski lessons.
However, our snow banks are still 4 feet high...  there is no well head visible at my place.

Our snow pack completely melted except for the piles pushed up by the plows. Ground was bare and dry. Ice melted off ponds. I even heard one or two spring peepers yesterday. And now this.   

[Andrew_Debbie]

TE old and new today.    I've been quietly working on several inexpensive battery powered  TE widgets.    They are based on 50x100mm and 100x100mm templates and budget PCB fabrication.

I shared the battery power supply earlier.   It features two outputs and over-discharge protection.

I just finished this little modulated 455kHz oscillator.    This replaces one I built a decade ago and recently destroyed after connecting it to a faulty power supply.   It is based on (stolen from)  The Minispot Oscillator --  Google will find the original.

This is an inexpensive signal source, not a precision device.   I first built it for troubleshooting tube table radios, but it comes in handy for all sorts of fault tracing.

 I've got several spare partially populated boards.  Want one?    I'll post one to you in exchange for a small donation to Disaster Emergency Committee, Oxfam or charity of your choice.    note: I messed up the BNC footprint.   Either "make it fit" or ignore it...

[mnementh]

...My goal for now is to fix the PSU ASAP before I forget how to put it back together. I don't te get distracted by adding other jobs to the mix. One thing at a time here...
If I am successful with the PSU I will be well happy and could then contemplate doing other jobs on this scope... but I want to focus on the PSU only right now...

I might still order green LEDs and a new battery along with the caps, but I am not attempting to pull the font panel until the PSU is recapped, put back together, re-installed, and assured it works fine.

I know my limits, want to try to minimize the risk of fucking things up, on a scope I care a lot about and managed to get for a good price.

Obviously, you need a LEDtester like the one once sold by Mentor (panel elements company), where you have several current steps (2/10/15/20mA or so) and which allows you to place several LEDs side-by-side in sockets with the same current step, so that you can select them precisely for brightness and hue! 

Agitator!!! 

mnem
Do carry on...!   

[Cerebus]

Hiding a reserve is not attempted fraud because they are not expecting a bid. If it is bid up to the reserve and sold the auctioneer / seller is not trying to make more money so no benefit and no intention to get benefit so no fraud or attempted fraud. If the bidder does not know what their limit is that is their probem.

I can't find anything to say that the presence of a reserve has to be declared. It is very clear however that the value of a reserve does not have to be revealed.
Another perspective:
An item that I want has a reserve (value not to be revealed to bidders, but lets say £50) I want the item at up to £100. Other bidders drop out at £30. Unless the auctioneer bids to the back wall I don't get to buy the item so I loose out. If he bids the wall until I hit reserve I win because I get the item and the reserve confidentiality is preserved. Yes it could be abused and tht would be fraud.
I  guess we will have agree to disagree. I can't prove a negative and I'm not going looking for case law to prove your point 

Red herring. Nobody has said that the existence of a reserve has to be declared, except obviously in the case where a lot doesn't make its reserve because you have to give a legitimate reason for a winning bid to become a 'no sale'. The only way reserves come into this at all is because you keep asserting that a shill bid that serves to push the bidding up to the reserve is lawful. A shill bid is a shill bid, reserve or not.

The criminality is in the auctioneer manipulating the price by injecting fictitious bids, no less, no more. Think beyond auctioneering to other people who have been jailed for price manipulation in what are supposed to be an open, fair markets.  The LIBOR price fixing scandal has just come back into the news, there's an example, the charges were "conspiracy to defraud". Any dishonest action that serves to manipulate a price is fraud. The dishonesty in a shill bind is the pretence that the bid is made by a bona fide bidder when it is not.

I can't conveniently quote statute on this that says in black and white that "auctioneers making bids off the wall commit an offence", because the statute law (e.g. Fraud Act) is broad and not specific to auctions so you have dip your toe into jurisprudence to show how it meets the offence of fraud.

The CPS gives the following elements for the offence of "Fraud by false representation"

The defendant:

• made a false representation
• dishonestly
• knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading
• with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

The offence is entirely focused on the conduct of the defendant.

So if the auctioneer makes a bid representing it to come from a bona fide bidder, not themselves(proves 1), they will automatically know that the representation is not true(3), which is ipso facto dishonest(2), and obviously makes for a financial gain to the seller(4), inflates their commission(4), and causes a loss (higher price) to the buyer(4), or exposes buyers in general to a risk of paying a higher price than in the abscence of the shill bid(4).

All points of the offence met.

Moreover, I'm not the only one who thinks that an auctioneer pretending to accept bids that have not been made is fraud, and the salient difference is that this writer has LLB after her name, which I do not.

Sometimes, the auctioneer and/or the auction house can be prosecuted for criminal activity around an auction, including fraud. Fraud may arise where an auctioneer pretends to accept bids which have not been made, and you could have a claim against him in relation to the deposit (and interest). The buyer can take legal action for fraud, and criminal prosecution for fraud can also follow.

[Cerebus]

This sucks. I thought we were done with this crap.  Could be upwards of 6 inches or more and later the wind will kick up and blow it into drifts. Lots of fun.



Starting Monday supposedly temperatures will rise into the 50's F and near 60 F. I won't hold my breath. 

Also, at least here tonight we go back to DST.

Let's face it, God's just got it in for you. 

[Cerebus]

Do you buy from a seller on Ebay who does not respond to your messages/questions?

Risky risky.....

Generally, no. I might make exceptions for cheap things (like asking a generalist, almost inevitably Chinese, seller that has electronics connectors, sexy underwear, kitchen gadgets and cuddly toys as stock to clarify a measurement and they clearly can't be bothered), but not for anything with a decent ticket price like TE.

[med6753]

This sucks. I thought we were done with this crap.  Could be upwards of 6 inches or more and later the wind will kick up and blow it into drifts. Lots of fun.



Starting Monday supposedly temperatures will rise into the 50's F and near 60 F. I won't hold my breath. 

Also, at least here tonight we go back to DST.

Let's face it, God's just got it in for you. 

Not sure about the Almighty but if you said it was Mother Nature I'd completely agree since women have been the bane of my existence. 

[Cerebus]

Huh?  What happened to the existing snow?  We got about 5 inches, and the wind is starting to pick up.  Just in time to go to ski lessons.
However, our snow banks are still 4 feet high...  there is no well head visible at my place.

Our snow pack completely melted except for the piles pushed up by the plows. Ground was bare and dry. Ice melted off ponds. I even heard one or two spring peepers yesterday. And now this. 

I stuck my head out of the window the day before yesterday and could smell "new mown grass" drifting my way from the park down the road.