Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[AVGresponding]

Interesting the first comment....

I like to solder all my lugs on for an even better connection.  And in the example at the end where you cut through the 4 - 0 lug, you chose a location where it had not been crimped thereby showing an uncrimped gap inside.  Not a nice demonstration.  Solder has always been superior to crimp, throughout the history of cable lug use.  Not sure where you went to school but we actually tested crimped vs soldered connections for resistance and noticed failures in current draw tests.  The solder, when done correctly always produced better results than crimps when done correctly.  In most applications, either will suffice.  However, for pure results solder wins.  Silver based solder is 5% more conductive than copper (copper 100%, silver 105% using copper as the standard conductor).  Heating wire tends to distort the insulator so care must be used.  I like to use a wet rag to cover the insulation near the end or an cooling paste which is available from most HVAC wholesalers.  Silver requires a bit more heat than propane, though so most opt for the crimp.  We're talking about the purest method here...in real life and in most situations the crimp will suffice.  Its important to know the composition of the lug being used as well.  Some are made of aluminum while some are copper and other's copper with a tinned coating.  Best to choose one with copper, either bare or tinned, since aluminum tends to oxidize over time which creates friction within the lug.  I've seen 'em glowing red like a toaster element from bad connection.  I got about 50 years experience in this subject.

Purely from a resistive point of view that may be true, but overall I don’t think it is - solder will wick into the wire, and turn at least some of it, right where it emerges from the terminal, effectively into a solid conductor - right where it’s anchored and going to be subjected to the most stress.  What breaks first when subjected to vibration - solid wire, or stranded wire?

Properly made crimps are mechanically sound, more resistant to vibration than soldered ones, and gas tight.

https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/201%20General%20Requirements.html#:~:text=Crimping%20is%20an%20efficient%20and,design%20application%20and%20connectivity%20requirements.

I’ll stick with crimping, thankyouveryplease…

-Pat

Edit to add:  copied from the first paragraph of the link above:
Crimped Terminations
Crimping is an efficient and highly reliable method to assemble and terminate conductors, and typically provides a stronger, more reliable termination method than that achieved by soldering.

No. Just no.

Solder joints are more difficult to do correctly, but when done so are almost always the better choice. The vibration point is a good one, but not really applicable for a home solar PV installation, unless you live directly above a seriously active tectonic fault zone.

[vk6zgo]

Politics and Religion, combined ?! Yes that would be disastrous indeed, ALMOST as controversial as floppies !!!

Not as controversial as ham radio & Bird wattmeters!

[vk6zgo]

I thought you won one of the 180 series SA mainframes, in the last PP auction, it should work in the SA mainframe, just some of the later ones haven't got the scope cal outputs, as they were made long after the scope modules became obsolete.
I'm I the only one on here with some 180 scopes in my collection?

David

I have a 181 here.


Lab Cat looking none too pleased with the poor probe compensation:


-Pat

A quick warning note for anyone with a HP 181T, 181A oscilloscope mainframe or spectrum analyzer display section (or older 141T,141S,141A), beware there is no protection for the storage CRT with excessive intensity, particularly in normal mode, where you can't see the trace bloom with high intensity setting, the storage mesh is often damaged on these from previous owners not RTFM, or clueless sellers that just turn every control to max until a trace appears. 

Warning from 141T manual, need to add the 181 warning (aka, use Write & avoid Norm for setting intensity).


Another warning, when buying unknown condition 180/181 series mainframes, check the PSU is working correctly, before trying with known good plug-ins, as there was a mention of damage to the plug-ins from a faulty PSU.

Some of mine.....

David

I noted the same warning in the Tektronix RM564 manual ... which I still have not got round to powering it up.  Eventually.... some day

I just want to note for the record that that photo was taken in rather dim lighting, so the phone camera horribly overexposed the appearance of the trace on the scope - it wasn’t set to eye-searing, screen-melting intensity despite the fact that it may seem to be.  Also note how bright the pilot light looks, and how dimly lit everything else is in comparison.  No CRTs were harmed in the production of that photograph. 

-Pat

I guessed that you were trying to get the best possible picture of your fuzzy whiskered friend.

[mansaxel]

Crimping is an efficient and highly reliable method to assemble and terminate conductors, and typically provides a stronger, more reliable termination method than that achieved by soldering.[/i]

No. Just no.

Solder joints are more difficult to do correctly, but when done so are almost always the better choice. The vibration point is a good one, but not really applicable for a home solar PV installation, unless you live directly above a seriously active tectonic fault zone.

The "more difficult" part together with vibration which quite often is applicable, will make a proper crimped joint the winner in most practical scenarios. We're talking about something that gets done in awkward positions by people longing not for the ultimate in low resistance but for a pint at the pub.

I have an Elpress (which is the Nice Brand here in Sweden; they do the most popular and approved crimpers for both small wires and coax) crimper that goes to 70mm²; it's a "hardened ball" version so pretty close to the hammer crimper anvil but not as chaotic. Long nice handles and very sexy gunmetal finishing. I've done my UPS battery link cables with it and similar. I would not try soldering in those applications; the heat transfer would be complicated to achieve and cause problems with insulation pooling on the floor..

[Specmaster]

Random weird night out, in Brentford of all places! One for the London locals…

Did you drop into the Flying Swan for a pint of Large?

Or the Fisherman Arms?

[bd139]

Random weird night out, in Brentford of all places! One for the London locals…

Did you drop into the Flying Swan for a pint of Large?

Or the Fisherman Arms?

Had no idea the Brentford Trilogy Existed.

Alas the pub of choice was The Brewery Tap (pizza delivered to table from there) followed by The Beehive 

[Specmaster]

Random weird night out, in Brentford of all places! One for the London locals…

Did you drop into the Flying Swan for a pint of Large?

Or the Fisherman Arms?

Had no idea the Brentford Trilogy Existed.

Alas the pub of choice was The Brewery Tap (pizza delivered to table from there) followed by The Beehive 

Do they still have live music in the Brewery Tap? Have been in there a few times as well, can't say I know the Beehive, although it is possible as I've done a few pub crawls in Brentford 

As to the Brentford Trilogy, it's such a secretive one that none of us were aware it existed either 

[McBryce]

I am shopping for big amps connectors for my solar/battery system.

Can you guys tell me the best way to waste my money to use/connect/terminate those angry copper toys?



Knipex again?

EDIT, on my way....

Hi Zucca,
        aren't you in the car industry? The guys down in the workshop should have something like this lying around if you don't want to buy one yourself: https://www.joom.com/en/products/5febea76e3da9501068f9f0a

McBryce.

[bd139]

Random weird night out, in Brentford of all places! One for the London locals…

Did you drop into the Flying Swan for a pint of Large?

Or the Fisherman Arms?

Had no idea the Brentford Trilogy Existed.

Alas the pub of choice was The Brewery Tap (pizza delivered to table from there) followed by The Beehive 

Do they still have live music in the Brewery Tap? Have been in there a few times as well, can't say I know the Beehive, although it is possible as I've done a few pub crawls in Brentford 

Yeah they do but not last night. We were mostly having to listen to the dude who runs the local porn shop, obvious because of the promotional t-shirt advertising his business. Oh and some passing Real Ale Twats



The Beehive is one with, well a beehive on the top on the corner by Morrisons...

[m k]

Repair #1 today:



The tumble dryer saga continues. This time, it was the condensate pump, that would not pump if it was too much in the tank. Which is strange; it's a centrifugal pump and if they're normally picky about something, it's being not enough primed...  Took the combined debugging force of me and Wife to find and jury-rig it.

And, we're due to go on vacation tomorrow evening, so every garment is needed. Thus, we're running it in a cabbed-down mode to be able to bodge it quickly. Permanent fix likely is new pump. 

Repair # 2:

The jury-rigging and debugging of The Little Pump That Sometimes Could requires the use of one of my favourite Ultra-Bodgers^tm, the Safe-Bloc. (Or in this case, the RS-branded "Quicktest".) Lid on mine has unfortunately developed a crack from the unfused link contact fingers; they were badly adjusted so did not go cleanly down in the receptacles, creating undue strain on the almost-Bakelite. Cyanoacrylate fortunately works very well on these plastics, so a few droplets of CA later it's functionally as good as new, and I was able to adjust the contacts to give a much smoother action, while also preventing a repeat accident.

Years and years ago I opened a clothes washer because it didn't remove water.
Everything was ok, only pump was stuck by foreign object.
The object was an L-shape part of a belt buckle frame, or that was the verdict, and missing from nowhere.

[Ice-Tea]

YYyyyyiiiieeeeeaaahh....



Slightly worying: I think I heard a double pop. So either this was a two stage rocket or there's another one lurking somewhere in the dark.

Also lurking in the dark: 

[Specmaster]

Random weird night out, in Brentford of all places! One for the London locals…

Did you drop into the Flying Swan for a pint of Large?

Or the Fisherman Arms?

Had no idea the Brentford Trilogy Existed.

Alas the pub of choice was The Brewery Tap (pizza delivered to table from there) followed by The Beehive 

Do they still have live music in the Brewery Tap? Have been in there a few times as well, can't say I know the Beehive, although it is possible as I've done a few pub crawls in Brentford 

Yeah they do but not last night. We were mostly having to listen to the dude who runs the local porn shop, obvious because of the promotional t-shirt advertising his business. Oh and some passing Real Ale Twats



The Beehive is one with, well a beehive on the top on the corner by Morrisons...

Oh yeah, the one that's right next to the cop shop, (for obvious reasons) so that means you must have been pretty well-behaved for a change otherwise you'd be kicking your heels in the cells while sobering up 

Used to work just passed Brentford Lock, in Commerce Road, before moving to Syon Gate Way, behind the BMW dealers on Great West Road, before moving out to Twyford.

[Specmaster]

YYyyyyiiiieeeeeaaahh....



Slightly worying: I think I heard a double pop. So either this was a two stage rocket or there's another one lurking somewhere in the dark.

Also lurking in the dark: 

Argh, I can smell em, take them away quick. Evil things they are, even worse than tants! 

[Specmaster]

Crimping is an efficient and highly reliable method to assemble and terminate conductors, and typically provides a stronger, more reliable termination method than that achieved by soldering.[/i]

No. Just no.

Solder joints are more difficult to do correctly, but when done so are almost always the better choice. The vibration point is a good one, but not really applicable for a home solar PV installation, unless you live directly above a seriously active tectonic fault zone.

The "more difficult" part together with vibration which quite often is applicable, will make a proper crimped joint the winner in most practical scenarios. We're talking about something that gets done in awkward positions by people longing not for the ultimate in low resistance but for a pint at the pub.

I have an Elpress (which is the Nice Brand here in Sweden; they do the most popular and approved crimpers for both small wires and coax) crimper that goes to 70mm²; it's a "hardened ball" version so pretty close to the hammer crimper anvil but not as chaotic. Long nice handles and very sexy gunmetal finishing. I've done my UPS battery link cables with it and similar. I would not try soldering in those applications; the heat transfer would be complicated to achieve and cause problems with insulation pooling on the floor..

I have to disagree, a soldered joint is the best one in this instance. I used to after nearly 200 buses and coaches, all were 24V with 4 huge great 6V batteries all connected in series and the interconnecting links and the leads to and from the batteries and the huge great starter motors all had soldered connections. As all we know, buses in particular are real bone crushers in their riding and so the leads were constantly being subjected to massive vibrations and I never had a single failure of these connections and if you consider not only the jarring harsh ride of buses, but the huge amount of vibrations generated just by the diesel engines themselves and the fairly large amount of engine flexing being brought to bear on the cables in particular on the starter motors and alternators, it stands testimony to the suitability of those cables being soldered.

[Messtechniker]

What kind of soldering (station?) are you using for thick cables?
Our everyday 80 W soldering station wont cut it, right?

[Zucca]

Hi Zucca,
        aren't you in the car industry? The guys down in the workshop should have something like this lying around if you don't want to buy one yourself: https://www.joom.com/en/products/5febea76e3da9501068f9f0a
McBryce.

Here in USA they told me: "I use a hammer"... 

[Zucca]

What kind of soldering (station?) are you using for thick cables?
Our everyday 80 W soldering station wont cut it, right?

You need napalm...

[Specmaster]

What kind of soldering (station?) are you using for thick cables?
Our everyday 80 W soldering station wont cut it, right?

I used acetylene gas and oxygen flame when I made such connections on the buses.

[McBryce]

What kind of soldering (station?) are you using for thick cables?
Our everyday 80 W soldering station wont cut it, right?

You need Napalm...

Thermite perhaps?

McBryce.

[Specmaster]

Crimping is an efficient and highly reliable method to assemble and terminate conductors, and typically provides a stronger, more reliable termination method than that achieved by soldering.[/i]

No. Just no.

Solder joints are more difficult to do correctly, but when done so are almost always the better choice. The vibration point is a good one, but not really applicable for a home solar PV installation, unless you live directly above a seriously active tectonic fault zone.

The "more difficult" part together with vibration which quite often is applicable, will make a proper crimped joint the winner in most practical scenarios. We're talking about something that gets done in awkward positions by people longing not for the ultimate in low resistance but for a pint at the pub.

I have an Elpress (which is the Nice Brand here in Sweden; they do the most popular and approved crimpers for both small wires and coax) crimper that goes to 70mm²; it's a "hardened ball" version so pretty close to the hammer crimper anvil but not as chaotic. Long nice handles and very sexy gunmetal finishing. I've done my UPS battery link cables with it and similar. I would not try soldering in those applications; the heat transfer would be complicated to achieve and cause problems with insulation pooling on the floor..

I have to disagree, a soldered joint is the best one in this instance. I used to look after nearly 200 buses and coaches, all were 24V with 4 huge great 6V batteries all connected in series and the interconnecting links and the leads to and from the batteries and the huge great starter motors all had soldered connections. As all we know, buses in particular are real bone crushers in their riding and so the leads were constantly being subjected to massive vibrations and I never had a single failure of these connections and if you consider not only the jarring harsh ride of buses, but the huge amount of vibrations generated just by the diesel engines themselves and the fairly large amount of engine flexing being brought to bear on the cables in particular on the starter motors and alternators, it stands testimony to the suitability of those cables being soldered.

[mnementh]

Talking of ginger and white cats. About 30 minutes ago the living room curtains twitched and about five feet off the ground a furry ginger and white face poked through them. We're not on the ground floor, and we don't have a ginger and white cat. Window now shut to keep the furry burglar out.

See, now that was a missed opportunity - you could have had a ginger and white cat, but you blew it! 

They make excellent lab assistants.
 

-Pat

and you coulda named it... 5e. And we all know you would, given half an excuse. 

mnem
BTW, very proud of you not making the painfully obvious pun and calling it a catburglar....

[bd139]

Quick lunch time tek check out... 465B. Got the replacement capacitors finally.

In went the new cap. Power supplies checked for ripple and voltage - both good.



Case back on and still good. Burn in 30 mins looking perfect.



To do:

1. Replace the channel switch ROM. Ordered. £23.19 but what can you do?
2. Check channel 1 function.
3. Clean up and clean a couple of the pots which are a bit noisy.
4. Burn in
5. Calibrate.
6. Replace the stumps with feet 

[AVGresponding]

Bought some junk. Thanks to AVGresponding for pointing this out and apologies if I outbid you 

£17.49 including delivery gets me ... one HP 3776A PCM test set.



Why? Well I went through the service manual and it is absolutely packed to the brim with rather expensive analogue and TTL bits and a metric ton of standard HP parts. Absolutely no use whatsoever in this day and age as it's all for testing Bell/CCITT 4KHz channel telecoms crap which is completely obsolete so it'll be used as an organ supply for other projects. Only problem is it's a full 4U rack unit and weighs 15Kg

On a positive note it was cheap enough that I don't care if the courier leaves it on the doorstep and it gets nicked. And if anyone nicks it, LOL enjoy the hernia 

  as previously mentioned, there's a better than fair chance it'll arrived pre-disassembled, due to lack of packing ability/attention to care with this seller. Still promises to be a good source of parts, glad you bagged it, I was getting nervous that there were no bids with a day to go and was about to weaken!

Hope no-one on here was looking at that joblot of pots, I have blinked and put the first bid in...   


Another Agilent meter interface arrived today, report this weekend. Early news: it works, with caveats.

I’ve bought stuff from that seller and had crap packaging before. Got a 475 for £50 which was in a single wall box with no padding. It survived which was a testament to the scope.

Will take lots of photos.

Not touching the pits. Unless they are the Bourns ones 

Congrats on the interface.

Nope, a job lot of 98, Sfernice NOS. Got them on the maiden bid too! £30.97 inc. shipping.

[bd139]

Fuck forgot to bid on the Bourns ones 

Ah well - congratulations anyway 

[mnementh]

A few dollars more gets you these hydraulic crimpers: 
mnem
 

Ya don't need hydraulic tools for piss ant copper lugs ! 

Narva make some good HD ones but they might be outta budget for many:
https://www.narva.com.au/products/56516/heavy-duty-cable-lug-crimping-tool

These I'd rather ^ than Hex crimpers but some of the smaller ratcheting ones with an anvil type punch are fine too.
https://www.narva.com.au/products/56541/heavy-duty-connector-ratchet-crimping-tool

Or you could just go old school:   

Those hammer crimpers are the worst for copper lugs; you can't get a tight crimp without almost splitting the lug. IMO, the weakening of the material they cause makes them a detriment rather than a tool.

You can argue that's because the lugs they make nowadays have half the copper in them... But the hex crimpers work properly on what is made now and you shouldn't have to buy special just because your tool is prehistoric.

As for not needing hydraulic... The benefit there is that they work on more than just copper lugs. These crimpers can also be used on aluminum and steel crimps for other work.

mnem