Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[m k]

Very good.

Very good.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Some of the guys that were on Discord know it already: I bought a multimeter.
 
Rohde & Schwarz UDL44 incoming in the next few days.
But I have a good excuse! It is my first one which is fitted for a Data Hold probe. Otherwise, the somewhat convoluted pushbuttons make it look more capable than it really is. 4.5 digits and no interface. Ok, temperature using type K thermocouples, and a continuity beeper, which few desk DMMs have. And an analogue output from the RMS converter.  The '3.5digits' function does not speed the measurement up but merely supresses the last digit.

Ok, as it is secretly a Yokogawa (YEW model 7541), some quirks could be expected! Remember the strange handheld DMM, which I got some time ago?
Of course it does have a comparator function!
 
Someone at YEW seems to have a veritable obsession about this feature! And the frequency measurement can output its result as period time too. Also something I've never seen on a DMM. Strange people, those Japanese. Well, they gave the world cat cafes and tentacle H* (to name just a few), so maybe one should not wonder too much.

Of course I have to find a fitting DH probe (probe with pushbutton routed to a 3.5mm tip/ring connector) now. 

[Neper]

@Neper : the aim is not to "restore" it, but just to get it going  / functional again so I can flog it for maximum profit.
I will recap the PSU I agree, because not many caps and I think there are no "audio grade "filer caps for PSU is it.... so the audiophiles should probably be happy with that.
However as for replacing ALL these black and orange cylinders..... there are many of them, costs money... so to worth it, customers would have to be happy paying a lot extra for the privilege : what I paid for the caps, times 3, for it to b eowrth the expense... and I fear that the reverse will be true, they will say : " OH, I see you replaced all the cpas with modern "crap" ones ! TOO BAD I am not going to buy the amp any more then ! YOu should have left the old caps in place, they look, and sound much better ! "

See ? That's what I am very afraid of....

You're dramatising again...

The guys in Antwerp offer a "Quad 33 upgrade and revision kit" with a bunch of capacitors for a mere 24 euros plus p&p. If you're really worried about the esoterics you might use it and advertise the fact. Should bring the price up.

https://shop.dadaelectronics.eu/quad-33-upgrade-and-revision-kit-108463295.html

Methinks it's over the top. I would just replace the old electrolytics. "Audio grade resistors." On ne va quand-même pas déconner, quoi... 

[Neomys Sapiens]

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So I might receive it in time to play with it this week-end !!! 
.
...

Oh Vince, what have you done? I'm worried a bit about you now!
Anyone following this thread knows that the Tektronix 7000 series constitutes a rabbit hole in itself!
Before you can say 'readout system' 5 times, you will be hunting for the Waveform Calculator Keyboard to fit your 7854 and start a collection of 7D02 personality modules!

[factory]

After 3 years I finally got round to the last 2445/65 PSU recap, most of the electrolytics, all the RIFA madness and the line filter have been replaced, a quick test afterwards with the HP 3310A and it seems to be working OK, the trace isn't as sharp as some other scopes here.







Also put the 2465 back together, unfortunately this one is currently dead  , no idea if it worked before I started, as I don't think I plugged it in due to the condition of the RIFA madness.  Currently have zero enthusiasm to diagnose the SMPS failure.

And finally had a look at the readout problem on the 2445A, the vertical deflection of the readout is not working, I think I've narrowed the problem down to the CA3046 arrays (U475, U485) just before U400, where the signal is lost. Need to pull the mainboard to get at them.



David

[Vince]

@Neper : the aim is not to "restore" it, but just to get it going  / functional again so I can flog it for maximum profit.
I will recap the PSU I agree, because not many caps and I think there are no "audio grade "filer caps for PSU is it.... so the audiophiles should probably be happy with that.
However as for replacing ALL these black and orange cylinders..... there are many of them, costs money... so to worth it, customers would have to be happy paying a lot extra for the privilege : what I paid for the caps, times 3, for it to b eowrth the expense... and I fear that the reverse will be true, they will say : " OH, I see you replaced all the cpas with modern "crap" ones ! TOO BAD I am not going to buy the amp any more then ! YOu should have left the old caps in place, they look, and sound much better ! "

See ? That's what I am very afraid of....

You're dramatising again...

The guys in Antwerp offer a "Quad 33 upgrade and revision kit" with a bunch of capacitors for a mere 24 euros plus p&p. If you're really worried about the esoterics you might use it and advertise the fact. Should bring the price up.

https://shop.dadaelectronics.eu/quad-33-upgrade-and-revision-kit-108463295.html

Methinks it's over the top. I would just replace the old electrolytics. "Audio grade resistors." On ne va quand-même pas déconner, quoi...

OH thanks fo that !!! 

This website is specialized in Quad stuff, so they must know what Quad "people" like and don't like and....seeing as their capacitor kit is made of what looks liek "normal" electrolytic caps ("audio grade my ass !!! "), then it means I can use them too the, great !

.... if need be. As I said I will only recap the PSU for now, and change the other caps only if proven to be faulty / causing problems.

The audio grade resistors yeah, had a good laugh ! 

OK so looks like the Quad people aren't too fussy about their caps then, good 


OK, I did a little bit of troubleshooting. Just a tiny bit because well, it's almost 22H30 and I am tired ! 

Below the schematic. unplugged the two little amp- board (circled in green) so I can easily scope the input of those boards (identical of course, one per channel) to see if I could see my input signal. I don't, zero signs of life there....  So right there I can rule out all the stuff circled on the schematic :

- In green, the two amp boards.
- In red the power supply, gives a good and ripple free 12V (more like 13.4V actually).
- In blue, the output filters for each channel
- In yellow, I think the tone control stuff.
- Crossed in red at the far left of the schematic, I ruled out the " Disc Adapter" because well, it's an external board that you plug at the back of the amp... and I don't have that.

So a 30 second test rules out quite a bit of stuff eh ?! So I think I am making progress already ! 

[srb1954]

Oh Vince, what have you done? I'm worried a bit about you now!
Anyone following this thread knows that the Tektronix 7000 series constitutes a rabbit hole in itself!
Before you can say 'readout system' 5 times, you will be hunting for the Waveform Calculator Keyboard to fit your 7854 and start a collection of 7D02 personality modules!

If you are going to get the Waveform Calculator Keyboard for your 7854 you will also need to get the K213 Opt. 10 scope cart to carry it all!

Trying to find one of those will take you right down into the deepest parts of the rabbit hole.

[Vince]

.
.
So I might receive it in time to play with it this week-end !!! 
.
...

Oh Vince, what have you done? I'm worried a bit about you now!
Anyone following this thread knows that the Tektronix 7000 series constitutes a rabbit hole in itself!
Before you can say 'readout system' 5 times, you will be hunting for the Waveform Calculator Keyboard to fit your 7854 and start a collection of 7D02 personality modules!

Oh no don't say that ! 

... I will try to be reasonable ! 

Non I don't plan on exploring the rabbit hole.... if just because 5000/7000 plugins here a re rare and overprice. Finding them would required actively searching for them, and I am too lazy for that. Then if I found an interesting one, it would be too expensive for me so I couldn't justify buying it anyway ! So... I am hoping these two reasons will keep me out of trouble !

Now if I come across, by accident, during my daily search on leboncoin.fr, a plugin I like and it's cheap, ie pure fantasy here, then yeah might be tempted.... but I am not going to actively search for them, never minf put lots of money into them...I can't afford, and DO NOT want to play the speculator's game.. I despite these people so I don't want to fuel their vice and further degrade the situation...

For these reasons I have also completely givne up on ever acquiring and exploring the TM500/5000 plugin rabbit hole !
An old friend of mine has dozens of them, really dozens of these plugins, including fancy oscilloscopes ones... and every time he tell me about them it's to tell me about how troublesome and nightmarish they are. Always needing repair, impossible to repair, no part, zero accessibility, just not worth the trouble. But he likes them anyway so he has to endure all the down sides ! I feel for him ! 

[Neomys Sapiens]

For these reasons I have also completely givne up on ever acquiring and exploring the TM500/5000 plugin rabbit hole !
An old friend of mine has dozens of them, really dozens of these plugins, including fancy oscilloscopes ones... and every time he tell me about them it's to tell me about how troublesome and nightmarish they are. Always needing repair, impossible to repair, no part, zero accessibility, just not worth the trouble. But he likes them anyway so he has to endure all the down sides ! I feel for him ! 

I'm so glad that you are not referring to me or Terra Operative here! And yet, I'm almost sure that the guy you are mentioning does not have a TVC501!

On the other issue, you should give up that hope. I'll give you some hints: there are Digitizers, Sampling Heads, 1GHz, the wondrous world of analogue storage scopes...
 

[Neper]

I ruled out the " Disc Adapter" because well, it's an external board that you plug at the back of the amp... and I don't have that.

Of course you do. It's sitting in its usual position: Tape adapter on the left, Disc adapter on the right, as seen from behind. It's even labelled as such. Just open your eyes.

Which input have you been using for your test?

[TERRA Operative]

I'm currently sitting on 19 TM500 mainframes and 50 TM500 modules, and still acquiring..... (a bunch are earmarked for sale though.)

I see TM500, I buy TM500, it's an addiction for sure.


Also @vince, check out tantalum resistors for audio use. Then see how unobtanium they are, then if you want some, ask me nicely and I can get them off-the-shelf in Akihabara. of course 

[vk6zgo]

Actually, now that it's been running for a while, the lab is starting to smell like smoke. I'm going to cut my losses and sell the damn thing. 

EDIT:

Wife opened the basement window and there is smoke from wildfires. I might keep it after all. Need a nice baseline atmosphere to test it in.

That can be a trap---SWMBO had me running around madly, looking for the source of some smoke.
When I opened the front door, I could not only smell smoke, but see it up on the escarpment.
It turns out that the "Department of Biodiversity, Conservation and Attractions (DBCA)" (what a mouthful!) was carrying out "prescribed burns" to reduce the fuel available for Summer bushfires.

[srb1954]

I'm currently sitting on 19 TM500 mainframes and 50 TM500 modules, and still acquiring..... (a bunch are earmarked for sale though.)

Impressive collection! I have only got 13 plug-ins and 5 mainframes myself.

How many unique plug-ins do you have? Any especially rare ones?

[EEVblog]

I'm currently sitting on 19 TM500 mainframes and 50 TM500 modules, and still acquiring..... (a bunch are earmarked for sale though.)

Full collection pic?

[TERRA Operative]

I'm currently sitting on 19 TM500 mainframes and 50 TM500 modules, and still acquiring..... (a bunch are earmarked for sale though.)

Full collection pic?

Will do tonight, I have to do a stocktake actually. I just gotta move the 10-odd TDS600/700 scopes out of the way....
( /humblebrag )

[Brumby]

I'm currently sitting on 19 TM500 mainframes and 50 TM500 modules, and still acquiring..... (a bunch are earmarked for sale though.)

Full collection pic?

Will do tonight, I have to do a stocktake actually. I just gotta move the 10-odd TDS600/700 scopes out of the way....
( /humblebrag )

I like you ... and hate you - all at the same time.

[BU508A]

Before you can say 'readout system' 5 times, you will be hunting for the Waveform Calculator Keyboard to fit your 7854 and start a collection of 7D02 personality modules!

You mean this one?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/255548136156

[srb1954]

They must be getting pretty rare now if they can ask that much money for one.  I think I paid about US$65 for mine about 5-6 years ago.

[Specmaster]

@Vince
Re your Quad 33 and 303 pair.
These were actually considered back in the day to be pretty near to Rolls Royce quality of Hi-Fi equipement, another make was Leak, also a British make.

As to their current value in good working order they fetch from around £250 to £320 on eBay and the fact that https://www.dadaelectronics.eu/ still have the parts even the button caps for sale stands testimony to their status in the Hi-Fi world, these are very much sought after products for their clean pure undistorted sounds.

[Neper]

Let me add J.E. Sugden, the only British hifi manufacturer that still exists in its original form.

https://www.sugdenaudio.com/history

[Vince]

I'm currently sitting on 19 TM500 mainframes and 50 TM500 modules, and still acquiring..... (a bunch are earmarked for sale though.)

I see TM500, I buy TM500, it's an addiction for sure.

Oh wow, somehow your addiction for these things had totally escaped me so far ?! 
I thought your interest for them was only mercantile, fixing and flipping them for a profit. I never realized you actually had a collection of your own, that you keep...
Waiting for the picture like everybody else. 

Also @vince, check out tantalum resistors for audio use. Then see how unobtanium they are, then if you want some, ask me nicely and I can get them off-the-shelf in Akihabara. of course 

I am so glad I am not an audioiphool, or even audiophile.... that means I couldn't care less about these resistors if they even exist. My ears certainly couldn't hear a difference (unless they came DOA shorted or open-circuit, of course !  )

[Vince]

For these reasons I have also completely given up on ever acquiring and exploring the TM500/5000 plugin rabbit hole !
An old friend of mine has dozens of them, really dozens of these plugins, including fancy oscilloscopes ones... and every time he tell me about them it's to tell me about how troublesome and nightmarish they are. Always needing repair, impossible to repair, no part, zero accessibility, just not worth the trouble. But he likes them anyway so he has to endure all the down sides ! I feel for him ! 

I'm so glad that you are not referring to me or Terra Operative here! And yet, I'm almost sure that the guy you are mentioning does not have a TVC501!

I don't know if he has one, however a good friend of his, Philippe Demerliac (also French) runs an electronics YouTube channel. He is a very serious long time TM500 collector and he made a video specifically on that TVC 501 ! 



He explains that's it's the holy grail of the TM500 plugins, was one, or the, last plugin Tek designed and sold. So not a lot of them around, aggravated by the fact that it is a rather specialized one, that does time to voltage conversion. He said that of course he had been wanting and searching for one for many many many years, never found a single one, except every now and then on Ebay USA but at silly prices and then add to that, prohibitive shipping and customs etc... so.. no.  But then one of his viewers, from Belgium, was super generous and actually sent him one of those, for free, for his Birthday ! How cool is that !   

On the other issue, you should give up that hope. I'll give you some hints: there are Digitizers, Sampling Heads, 1GHz, the wondrous world of analogue storage scopes...
 

Yeah.... we shall see. For now as I explained I am not into the 5000/7000 plugin collection.... I like these scopes, but that's about it. Of course that may be subject to change... when I got my very first hollow-state Tek scope, that little type 317, I swore it would be my fist and LAST one. Look at me now, with 25 of them or something !

However.... I don't feel the same about my old 500 series vacuum tube Tek scopes.  I really enjoy finding uncommon plugins for them, and accessories, and other period pieces of TE to go with them. Like for example my OCXO Time Mark Generator, or my wide band pre-amp.. or whatever cool piece of TE of that era that I could surround my 500 scopes with.

I would really love to find a sampling plugin for these scopes !    ... but IIRC the rare time you find one, it's dead because of some unobtainium PIN diode, and/or it needs a custom probe to go with the plugin, and you can never find that probe, or it's dead and unrepairable.... I can't remember the specifics, it's all vague in my brain, but I do seem to remember that finding the plugin itself is only 10% of the story sadly.... 

[TERRA Operative]

On the subject of TM500, the new LCD module for my AFG5101 arrived today so I spent the evening installing it (after rewinding the busted inductor for the FG504, now the squarewave offset trimmer adjusts perfectly )
It is just a standard 16x2 LCD module, 5V version. I chose black text on white to keep it looking more original (but a little more modern than the old blue), I'm not a fan of the white text on blue that is common, and black text on green looks too old-school.

In the end the LCD was a straight forward swap, I just needed to use 6mm standoffs instead of the old 8mm ones as the new LCD is 2mm thicker.
Also, the connection for the contrast control needed a 3.6K resistor, so I pulled that pin out of the header connector and replaced it with the appropriate resistor.

In the end it works perfectly, and looks great.  Waaayyyy better than the barely useable old one.


Next step, make a replacement RAM backup battery, and build some extender cables to allow for calibration and adjustment.



Photos of my TM500 collection will come tomorrow morning, sorry, I got sidetracked.

[Vince]

I ruled out the " Disc Adapter" because well, it's an external board that you plug at the back of the amp... and I don't have that.

Of course you do. It's sitting in its usual position: Tape adapter on the left, Disc adapter on the right, as seen from behind. It's even labelled as such. Just open your eyes.

Eyes are open I swear ! 

My eyes saw that this "disc adapter" bay at the back , had a board edge connector sticking out, hence meant to plug something to it. Idea reinforced by the fact tha tthe user manual says that this board provides various corrections for various types of disc pickups : M1, M2, C1, S1. something like that. So I though well you must get teh board that corresponds to your particular disc player,then you plug it at the back of the amp.

But I now read more calmly the manual, and played with my amp and ... .OK, I understand now... the board is INSIDE the amp, it can come out, ... it did come out with a bit of wiggling eventually !
And I now understand why I got confused by this board edge connector sticking out ! Well you already know of course... others might not.
That board, that one board, actually provides all the various corrections for all types of disc "pickup" .
The board has an edge connector on  ALL FOR SIDES of it ! The way you switch from one type of pickup to the other, is you pull the board out of the amp, rotate it 90° or 180° to get what you wqnt, then insert the board back in to the amp. So of course with connectors on all 4 sides, no matter what you do there will always be one of them sticking out the back of the amp !

OK.... it all makes sense now, phew.

Along the same lines there is also the " Tape Adapter" board that you can also pull out from the back. It's represented in the center of the schematic.
So that's cool... that means that basically all the components of this amp are mounted on boards that can be easily pulled out !
I can see only a few components that are on the "main" board, but they all easy enough to get to if needed.

Which input have you been using for your test?

I am using the "Radio" inputs.

IIRC I tried all the other inputs but all gave the same result : nothing on the output.
Which leads to believe it's something common to all inputs, eh ! 

Will try to work a bit on it this evening... it's 19H07 already, time flies...

[BU508A]

Bad luck overall, someone stole a piece of triax cable that I was bidding on 

Did you have more luck this time? Both 12m Triax cables are gone now, one of them for less than 10 Euro.