Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[McBryce]

After all the stories about cracked gears, those had my special interest.  The gears are mostly OK, but some are having a small crack near the grub screw, like this one:

regards, Gertjan

This is a common fault on old Hameg Analogue Scopes. What I do: Wind some bare solid wire (0.5mm) 5 or 6 times tightly around the shaft and then twist the two ends of the wire until it has pulled the crack closed. This will hold for years of normal use without needing to worry about it failing if you forget to be extremely gentle with it.

McBryce.

[factory]

New acquisition: HP 5233L Electronic Counter

I bought this at the local swap meet for USD 60. The seller said that it came from "the basement" at Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. He had no clue what it was but he turned down my offer of $50.

It's in good nick. The fan spins, but it is a bit noisy. It doesn't seem to detect a signal, but the max I gave it was 1 Volt peak-peak as I need to review the owner's manual. As I adjust the measurement ratio the decimal point moves and KC or MC are displayed, so those are good signs. Apparently, something is borked in the least-significant display circuitry because it looks like it is showing both 4 and 6. Referring to my gutshot image, it looks like the last card is different from the other five cards, so I can't just compare and will get to look at the schematic.

Based on what I found on the interwebs, HP released the 5233L in 1964 and stopped selling it around 1968-1970. HP manufactured these in Palo Alto, California.

EDIT: It came with the proper goofy three conductor power cable. I have a couple of others, but those are not cheap to replace.

The first board in the display counter chain is the higher speed one (typically up to 2MHz to 5MHz depending on the counter it's from), the other four boards are lower speed (usually 600kHz), there is nothing to stop you trying a lower speed board in place of the possibly faulty board, for testing the rest, just remember it can only count lower frequency signals.

I've recently acquired a 5233L too, mine has had that higher speed board replaced, with the later CMOS IC & 10x transistor based display decoder version, the counting part is the same but with silicon transistors & carbon film resistors. It's very noticeable next to the others (neon/photocell based optical decoder) from using it, as the digits don't gently fade into each other, as they change from one number to the next.

David

[factory]

I've just tried this with mine (after repairing it*), I couldn't get the lower speed board to work in the high speed position, even tried using a lower frequency external time reference, but it still doesn't work.
The 1962 manual (on BAMA) states the boards were originally 300kHz & 2MHz.

The lower frequency reference is something Advance did, but they swapped the crystal for one that allowed their counter to directly read in RPM.

*As received my 5233L powered up OK, but none of the functions were working.

First problem was the micro sized fuses on the back, the -15V one was blown, the +20V one had been bodged with a 5A? fusewire soldered across the pins. 
For testing I've used some modern round 1A Wickmann type fuses, I bent the legs to hold them in place, the fuse caps do not fit. If I can't find the correct type I'll consider either changing the fuse holders to the suit the modern Wickmann type, or fit some alternate fuseholders inside. Look up GMW fuses on Mouser to see why I won't be buying them. 



After this self check was still not working, I printed out the diagram for the sampling & gate control boards and the input boards. I also cleaned the contacts on the reset switch, as this type of switch getting dirty contacts is a common problem in old HP stuff.

I connected a scope up to pin 2 of the sampling control board (A26), I could get the signal to change when pressing the reset switch, also I noticed the counter appearing to work with the switch slightly pressed, just enough to open the first contact.
At this point I noticed this contact isn't shown on the circuit diagram (no idea why), but I also noticed some wiring that had got a bit melted and some poor soldering. Looking closer I found a white/violet wire broken off, this was soldered back to the same point as the other wire with the same colors.



Turning the counter the right way up to inspect the other side, I found more evidence of a failed repair attempt & melted insulation and for some unknown reason a white/red/blue wire soldered to the same contacts as two brown wires (there also was a whisker of wire appearing to touch the switch frame too), in the same area a broken off white/grey wire was found. 



At this point I thought it was going to be impossible to figure out where there were supposed to be attached, as the early diagrams in the manual lack any wire numbering.
But thinking about it over tea, I had a look through the saved pictures of other 5233L counters and the picture on the previous page (thanks duckduck for the pic) and figured out where everything was meant to go.
Later I removed the brown wires, tidied them all up & reconnected the other two to the correct place.



On power up I now had a working counter, self check mode was good and the inputs were now accepting a signal, this counter is exceeding it's spec and counting signals over 4MHz. 
One of the readout is quite dim, some digits light better than others, looking at the readout bulbs, most of them have a lot of silvery deposits on the sides on the glass, indicating this counter had a long service life.





A couple of extra pictures, one of the later 5232 board with the CMOS based display decoder and the A25 gate control board.





David

[Addicted2AnalogTek]

I made some time this evening to restuff the screw terminal capacitors for the current project 485 scope with some 470uF 200V 85C 10000 hour rated capacitors.


After cutting them open and scraping them out, I sanded and tinned the remaining aluminum strips with SMDAL solder paste & a butane torch, tinned my 18awg jumpers with lead-free solder, joined them, and cleaned it all up.


I then used the hot snot rocket to cover it all up and also glue the new capacitors to the inside of the can.

[m k]

Turning the counter the right way up to inspect the other side, I found more evidence of a failed repair attempt & melted insulation and for some unknown reason a white/red/blue wire soldered to the same contacts as two brown wires (there also was a whisker of wire appearing to touch the switch frame too), in the same area a broken off white/grey wire was found. 

There must have been specialist rotating switch wiring folks, or very sophisticated fault finding procedure for misconnections.
After all, it was a manufacturing operation.

From a distance it's a very orderly thing.

[factory]

Yes there must have been jobs on the production line where they only did wiring looms, or wiring switches etc. We had similar at work wiring up the train cab panels, many years ago, did some myself for partial rewiring of card/module racks from the HST.

I'm sure they would have people tasked with fault finding on units, that failed the test/adjustment stage, doubt they would have anything other than the wiring & circuit diagrams to help.

I agree from a distance it looked fine, only when I had a closer inspection as I was cleaning the reset switch, then started noticing problems. In case your wondering I suspect a previous repairer had removed the switch from the panel to access & replace the electrolytic on the reset switch.

It looks as if they also replaced at least one of main filter cans too.

I've got it reassembled, the line fuse cap got replaced at the same time, as it's damaged.

David

[factory]

On to the next item that was bought back from storage on Friday afternoon (along with one of the HP 3200B), some other TE swapped places.

The Rotek 610 AC/DC wide band calibrator, pictured along with the 650 (at the storage unit).



A list of problems that was stuck to the top cover, some of which are probably relay related (from reading old posts on the forum & chatting to the chap at work who used to play with these).



There is an additional problem with the standby switch, guess I get to take the front panel apart, quite a few of the rotary switches seem quite loose too.



There are at least a dozen tants  on the various boards, some of which look to have been replaced before, first job will be to evict all of them, especially the nasty blue ones, see the "Grundig video smoke generator" post on here for why.



Probably should open a separate thread for this calibrator, I've already taken pictures of the boards, will edit them another day.

David

[FordRanger1998]

Hello fellow addicts. A local Ham club cleared out their store room and I was the winner of a ton of equip for FREE. Most of it have issues but a few units work decent or even perfectly. Any thoughts..??

[Addicted2AnalogTek]

Hello fellow addicts. A local Ham club cleared out their store room and I was the winner of a ton of equip for FREE. Most of it have issues but a few units work decent or even perfectly. Any thoughts..??

Nice haul!   Keep what you want and sell the rest to buy other things that you want. It's best to sell it locally unless you're confident in your packaging abilities. I'd potentially be interested in a few of the items if you do choose to sell some.

[Zucca]

Got a 33220a for cheap stated as for parts but passing self test. Do not needed, I bought it with the intention to flip it.
Arrived at my home, tested it and everything seems to work. No dust inside, seems it had just little use. Basically like new.

Now I want to keep it and put another brick in my bench wall. And of course I want to waste another $100 for the DIY option 001

[Zucca]

Now I want to keep it and put another brick in my bench wall. And of course I want to waste another $100 for the DIY option 001

The seller accepted a $70 offer...

eBay auction: #156128323501

 

I need to stop to buy what I want EVEN IF IT IS CHEAP, I need to buy what I need.

I am wasted.

[Sunlitcomet]

I'm here to enroll for outpatient visits please. My name is Jonathan and don't want to be a TEholic.

[McBryce]

I'm here to enroll for outpatient visits please. My name is Jonathan and don't want to be a TEholic.

Welcome to the Hotel California.... 

McBryce.

[Zucca]

I'm here to enroll for outpatient visits please. My name is Jonathan and don't want to be a TEholic.

Coming here is like to let an alcoholic inside a Bourbon factory.
There is no coming back now, your bank account will sink, your lab will be full of boxes (of the floor), you will need a second bench and you will be very happy about it.

[TERRA Operative]

Hi, my name is TERRA Operative, and I just bought a Valhalla Scientific 2724A/CPR. I had gone a whole few days without buying any test equipment, but I slipped, again. *sobs

[Vince]

Oh, just received this today ! 

That's why I keep searching Leboncoin.fr daily... not because I am actively seeking to purchase any more boat anchor, but because you never know when the odd cool interesting, rare thing might pop up.

So I just could not resist the temptation of buying this little thing... stuff does not have to be expensive nor big and heavy to be useful and valuable eh....
Never seen one for sale before, and probably never will again, so it was a no-brainer...

This is the original big binder for the service manual of my Philips / Fluke "combiscopes".. all 2.5+ kg of it 

In perfect nick. Complete with everything you could want from a service manual. All fold out schematics with BOM and board views to locate the components, to begin with, etc etc. ... Guy wanted only 7 Euros for it ! I didn't even have the balls to make him an offer, I paid full price for it ! 

This combiscope is my daily driver. Well, I have two of them : a 4x200MHz one and a 4x100MHz one. I am using the 200MHz one because of the B/W of course, and because having more than 100MHz B/W means that it has switchable 50ohms inputs, which the 100MHz of course does not have. So it's more versatile, which makes it even more useful as a daily driver / general purpose scope.

Anyway, it's been having DC offset issues forever, so I thought a service manual could only help me, the day I decide to try to investigate this issue...
At first it was very small and affecting only CH1. Running the CAL routine would compensate it out. However the problem got progressively worse over the years, now affecting all 4 channels, and an amplitude such that even the CAL routine can't get rid of it (it improves on it of course, but can't get rid of it completely)

One of the four clamps on the binder, the bottom one, is not closing properly, bummer... in the closed position it still leaves a 5+mm gap or something, makes turning the pages a bit of a pain...

Anyway, rarely have I been so excited and pleased with something this cheap ! Value for money is to the roof with this one !

[TERRA Operative]

Real manuals are always better than pdf.

That open ring can be fixed, you just need to over-close it to bend it back to position.
Cross the two pieces a bit sideways just enough that they pass each other and force them a little too far closed. You'll see what I mean, adjust until they close properly (you can tweak them sideways too if they don't perfectly align).

[Vince]

OK just gave that a try Terra.... no joy, zero improvement.
I guess it stayed in that position for too many years...
I pressed as hard as I could with my fingers, until it hurt so bad I could not sustain the pain.
This resulted in an overlap of 12mm maybe, not more... then when I release my fingers, it springs back fully, to its original position.... 

I will try harder : remove all the pages from the binder and use big pliers to achieve more overlap... and if that does not do it, might take a torch to heat up the thing to soften it a bit...

..and if that fails too, I guess I can just transfer all the pages into a new binder... looks like Philips used a generic binder : the front and side covers are not printed directly onto the binder, they are just printed thick paper inserted into a transparent "pouch", sorry probably not the proper term.... So if I can find a brand new binder with a similar design, I can reuse the covers and bob will be my uncle...

[Sunlitcomet]

Yeah I just bought over a dozen things in one month, most all in the last week. For the next year i will be very broke. Definitely have boxes of various thing on the floor and definitely don't even have a bench yet. It will be about another month before that goes into place. In the mean time I am just trying to get my hands on other things which are hard to get because of scarcity or rare opportunities on a cheap cost of it, money permitting. I try to do some minor stuff where I can but it is not much right now at all. I should have done this as my career 30 years ago instead of the direction I did go. Getting on the right track now tho.

[Addicted2AnalogTek]

I'm here to enroll for outpatient visits please. My name is Jonathan and don't want to be a TEholic.

Welcome to the fun! You are in no way obligated (by any of us) to seek out and obtain the really awesome gear you're exposed to as a result of this group.

I'm Brian, and I operate a non-profitable rescue and resurrection service for test equipment, and my one customer is moderately satisfied. It's me, I'm moderately satisfied. My workbench space and storage space is suffering, and my non-profitable venture is currently being overtaken with customer projects from my profitable, professional work. I like to pretend that I need most of the gear that I have, when in reality, a couple dmm's, soldering/desoldering equipment, power supplies, ONE oscilloscope, and some component analyzers are the only things making money.

Hi, my name is TERRA Operative, and I just bought a Valhalla Scientific 2724A/CPR. I had gone a whole few days without buying any test equipment, but I slipped, again. *sobs

Now that's quite a tool! Is it fully operational currently, and are there plans in the works to fully refurbish it?

Please, oh please can I just stay busy enough working on other people's (paying) projects to keep me from shopping for TE?? It's been 41 days since I've purchased any TE. It's been 5 days since I've purchased any additional parts for my own open projects. Being here for these moments is generating an itch.... I must depart for the garden or the garage or anywhere except for on my bum....

[TERRA Operative]

I just asked the seller (Accusource) for an update on shipping, and they said a capacitor popped during the final test before they sent it. Fkn tantalum I bet, I've seen a few reports of tants popping in these units.... They have to wait for parts to be able to replace the tant. I bet they purchased from Digikey, so delays are inevitable...
Apparently it'll be shipped Mon/Tues to my contact in the states who is visiting Japan in a few weeks and will haul it over for me.

Once it arrives (and parts arrive) I'll be making a calibration switch box (special thanks to @TheDefPom for uploading a video of his for reference!) and definitely poking around inside to see what needs to be properly refurbished.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/valhalla-2724a-programmable-resistance-standard/msg6226293/#msg6226293

I'll see how it reads on my 3458A, but until I get that calibrated by Keysight, I won't put tooo much weight on the accuracy of any calibration I do (although anecdotally my 3458A is reading pretty good from what I can tell).

[Gertjan]

Hewlett-Packard South Queensferry factory history books

Reading back in the TEA tread, I found a post where factory mentioned the "HPSQF history books".
As my 8640B is made in South Queensferry, I was interested, and did some reserarch.

Turns out that these are a very interesting 3 volume set about the history of HP South Quensferry, Scotland!


HPSQF_book-2000pix.jpg

After a 30 year career with Hewlett-Packard South Queensferry, Hugh Walker was given the chance in 2010 to review a treasure chest of material that was being shipped initially to the Agilent Corporate Archive in Santa Clara, California. He knew that it was unlikely anyone would see the material again, so he set about copying and documenting the many boxes of material.
This was the source material for his definitive 3 Volume History completed in 2021.

Privately published in 2021, the 3 volume 1200 page history of Hewlett-Packard South Queensferry is believed to be one of the most complete industrial histories in the UK, if not Europe.
It charts the facility from inception in the 1960s through closure and demolition in 2013. Volume 1 covers the full 50 year story,
Volume 2 the technology developed, and the final volume is a illustrated colour photo book.

Even better, digital versions of these books are now availabe free online!

This makes very interesting reading for everyone interested in HP. It kept me of the streets for a few days.
The history of HP in the UK, the People, the HP way. The divisions were much were more independent than I thought. The difference between "Transferred Products" and your own R&D and Product Line. Lots of Photos (vol.3).

A photo from the book, showing the HP South Queensferry plant between the Forth bridges:


HP-South-Queensferry-plant-full_size.jpg (Big, 2MB)

Extra interesting for me, as I served my military service in the Dutch Navy, and have sailed under these bridges around the time my 8640B was made.
In recent years, we often go on holiday to Scotland, and I still enjoy crossing this bridge. But I never knew there was a HP factory nearby...  Maybe next time,  I will take some time to see if I can find some remnants of the HP factory.

Edit: I looked at the area in Google maps /satellite view: nothing left, there is a new residential area now... 
(With a Hewlett Way and a Packard Street)
Only the neighboring Dalmeny railway station seems to have remained more or less the same...

regards, Gertjan.

[Robert763]

Kaspersky does not like the .tw website with the HPSQ books 

[squadchannel]

https://www.drv.tw
it looks like they're using this service.
But isn't .tw Taiwan's TLD?

[factory]

Firefox doesn't like the new links either, despite it being linked on the HP memory website, the older BTcloud link I added here years ago is now very dead.
 
https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/timeline/hugh_walker/hugh_walker_memoir.htm

Interesting the aerial picture is from 1995, at the time I only a few miles east of there at Linlithgow*, with no TE collection, only a few old radios.
I see you've noticed the factory has been completely erased and "Packard" has been separated from the "Hewlett way" , the third bridge wasn't there back then either.

*Racal also had a factory in Linlithgow, but it seems to have been radar/defence related rather than TE, I haven't checked if it still exists following them being taken over by Thales some years ago.

David