Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)

[tautech]

200W is pretty pitiful but might be enough IDK.

[ollopa]

Typically the power sequencer will hold the CPU in reset until all the monitored supplies are within tolerance or until it detects a fault and shuts off the main power supply.  I think what you're observing is the initial turn-on attempt followed by a fault and it giving up.  I mentioned mine does the same thing if the +12V is disconnected but in your case it's probably one of the regulated supplies on the MB.

The trick of looking for the hot cap works great if your failure mode is a shorted cap and the MB will stay on long enough for it to heat up.  I doubt it will work in this case.

Possibly a good time to consider upgrading rather than repair.  That board should have about 50 through-hole electrolytics which you wouldn't want to waste the money and time on replacing all of.  On the other hand you could try in-place checking with the old trick of using a signal generator and a scope to evaluate ESR:

http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=948 
https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-and-answers/capacitor-esr-tester
https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/capacitor-esr-meter-circuit-using-555-timer-ic
You get the idea.

Also keep in mind that motherboards are many, many layers thick with large ground planes and no thermal relief, so your old Radio Shack soldering iron is not going to do the trick.  It helps to have a variety of tools that can transfer a lot of heat and knowledge of a few techniques.

[analogRF]

Typically the power sequencer will hold the CPU in reset until all the monitored supplies are within tolerance or until it detects a fault and shuts off the main power supply.  I think what you're observing is the initial turn-on attempt followed by a fault and it giving up.  I mentioned mine does the same thing if the +12V is disconnected but in your case it's probably one of the regulated supplies on the MB.

The trick of looking for the hot cap works great if your failure mode is a shorted cap and the MB will stay on long enough for it to heat up.  I doubt it will work in this case.

Possibly a good time to consider upgrading rather than repair.  That board should have about 50 through-hole electrolytics which you wouldn't want to waste the money and time on replacing all of.  On the other hand you could try in-place checking with the old trick of using a signal generator and a scope to evaluate ESR:

http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=948 
https://www.nutsvolts.com/questions-and-answers/capacitor-esr-tester
https://circuitdigest.com/electronic-circuits/capacitor-esr-meter-circuit-using-555-timer-ic
You get the idea.

Also keep in mind that motherboards are many, many layers thick with large ground planes and no thermal relief, so your old Radio Shack soldering iron is not going to do the trick.  It helps to have a variety of tools that can transfer a lot of heat and knowledge of a few techniques.

I also thought that it could be one of the on board regulators/dc-dc converters...we'll see

I know how hard it is to replace the caps on motherboards. I recently did that on a FIC503A (Agilent 54845A) and it drove me nuts...
for soldering I have a Hakko and it did the job on that FIC mobo albeit with a lot of pain.

for in-circuit ESR test, I usually use my HP 4263B (I bought it with recent calibration for $440 delivererd about 16-18 month ago )
with 20-50mV rms test voltage. Usually gives a very good indication but of course it depends on the circuit.
unfortunately in case of power supply filters when there are inductors in series between two caps you can never know what you are measuring exactly specially at low frequency ....

[analogRF]

for upgrade, what motherboard do you guys suggest?

I am looking for something that fits in place of the original one with no tempering with the scope body and back panel, etc...
and I dont want to change the LCD or anything.

[nctnico]

You'll need at least a MB with an Intel chipset and AGP slot so the display will work. The most ideal situation is to simply get the same motherboard.
Still... your problem could be the CPU (or the CPU got fried) so get a new CPU too.

[analogRF]

is it not possible to have a non-intel chipset motherboard (but with AGP slot) that works with the original display?

[analogRF]

I took the board out and tried to check the caps (at 20-50mV rms voltage and 120Hz/1Khz/10Khz on my HP 8263B)
but as I expected, it is really not possible at all to say anything because there are so many caps in parallel with many inductors in between
so its a complex impedance that always shows a negative (but very tiny) ESR which is meaningless although the capacitance value seems
ok but that cannot show the condition of individual capacitors... They are all Rubycon and Nichicon 105C as far as I can tell and visually look perfect to me...maybe one of the MOSFETs is open? but again it is not possible to check in circuit and desoldering
sooo many caps or mosfets is not worth the time and headache...

[analogRF]

It seems the only way forward is to ditch this motherboard and replace it.
As I mentioned before, in order to replace the board I am not looking for total overhaul and a moderate upgrade will suit me the best.

Therefore, I am looking at Asus P5PE-VM  https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P5PEVM/overview/
which accepts Core2 Due but only up to 2GB memory
and Asus P5P800-VM  https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/P5P800VM
which I think will not accept core2 due (not sure) but up to 4GB memory. But it can support up to  Pentium D 960

both fit the scope perfectly and have native PCI and AGP.

Can anyone help me to choose, please?
Is Win 7 possible on these boards?

thanks

[nctnico]

The P5PE seems more modern and supports faster memory.

[analogRF]

The P5PE seems more modern and supports faster memory.

my main dilemma is the 4GB vs 2GB max memory. which is better? otherwise, yes P5PE has better features like gigabit LAN and faster FSB

also is it possible to have win 7 with any of these boards?

[nctnico]

2GB should be more than enough. And I wouldn't bother with Windows7. You probably bring more bloat on-board.

[analogRF]

I just managed to do some measurements on the motherboard and the cpu is actually getting no power at all. that's why the bios does not run and no beeps whatsoever.

the source voltage on the mosfets near the cpu are all zero and some of them have 12V on their drain but some have no voltage on any of their pins!

maybe the dc-dc converter IC is dead ... whatever that chip is... or a mosfet is bad (not shorted because I checked them for short but i cannot check for open in-circuit)

[analogRF]

does having a dual core or quad core intel CPU actually boost the performance in Lecroy Xstream software? how significant is it if any?
for example does the waveform update increase or the spectrum analysis really gets faster?
I mean between a dual core and a single core cpu with similar clocks

according to this blog http://s-audio.systems/blog/lecroy-upgrade/
having dual core has a minimal effect.

can anybody on this thread who have used the scope both with single and dual core cpu confirm?
thanks

[Mechatrommer]

confirmed, dual core is better (through "the feeling", its more noticable in 3D view) but... "minimal" is a subjective term, if you expect twice the speed then... no.

[analogRF]

no of course I dont mean doubling the performance but does the scope really use both cores to a large extent when it is put under stress like heavy spectrum analysis and other maths?
That blog that I posted earlier says no it does not. So I wonder if it is better to have a higher clocked single core than a lower clock dual core

[nctnico]

I'd go for the single core higher frequency. Unless you also want to upgrade the drivers to dual core versions. The standard Wavepro 7k software can't run on a dual core machine.

[analogRF]

I'd go for the single core higher frequency. Unless you also want to upgrade the drivers to dual core versions. The standard Wavepro 7k software can't run on a dual core machine.

that's what I was thinking...in that case I wonder what would be the benefit of buying Asus P5PE-VM instead of P5P800-VM because the major difference seems to be the ability of P5PE to run Core 2 Due and higher. But as far as single core cpus are concerned they are the same. But I can get P5P800 cheaper and from several local sellers unlike P5PE

[analogRF]

I'd go for the single core higher frequency. Unless you also want to upgrade the drivers to dual core versions. The standard Wavepro 7k software can't run on a dual core machine.

but it will work, right? using just one core. because in that blog that I posted earlier the guy used the standard XStream software i believe.

I cannot seem to find any link to scope software/drivers that officially support dual core ?

[Mechatrommer]

it seems i've keep the benchmark view of it... i think i've posted it somewhere here but dont know and dont care where it is, so here it is again...
1) 3D view ON, more than 50% means more than 1 CPU used.
2) turning OFF the 3D view back to normal view, ok near 0% CPU usage
3) 3D view and Spectrum/Spectrogram ON simultaneuosly... 65% usage
judge by yourself, so imho if 3D view is not your cup of tea, you only need normal view, then you will be fine without an upgrade. in fact, even if all views ON, you will still be fine, the scope will not BSoD.. ymmv.

[analogRF]

Mechatrommer,

Thanks for the info. What version of the scope software and drivers did you use? Did you install a "dual core version" as nctnico said a couple of posts back? I dont think i have seen anything about dual core version of the scope drivers.

[Mechatrommer]

What version of the scope software and drivers did you use? Did you install a "dual core version" as nctnico said a couple of posts back? I dont think i have seen anything about dual core version of the scope drivers.

currently ver8 i think, but older driver ver7 i think. officially? you cant find dual core compatible driver from LeCroy, you only can find it here in this thread afaik... i kind of tired searching it, maybe its in page 4-8...cheers.

[dgo_42]

Hi analogRF,

I've upgraded my WavePro according to sergeyklenov https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2655453/#msg2655453
But if you upgrade to the new motherboard without AGP - you can't use original graphic card and original LCD/touch screen (the original resistive touch screen is controlled by AGP card)
I've purchased 9.7" iPad LCD with display port adapter and with separate 10.4 capacitive touch screen. The only the problem, that 2048x1536 pixel LCD needs very fast (in 2D mode) graphic card
First I've tried Radeon HD3470 - by fast trigger XStream uses up to 33% of CPU (i5 3570) which is more then one core but XStream is unfortunately single threaded and most of 33% CPU usage used by system (red on the graph)
I mean it is used to transfer information to the graphic card. Now I've ordered Radeon HD 7790 and wiil try this card.

If you want, I can send photos of my LeCroy and detailed instructions.

Best regards,
Dimitrij

[analogRF]

Hi analogRF,

I've upgraded my WavePro according to sergeyklenov https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgrading-mainboard-in-lecroy-dda-3000-(aka-wavepro-7300a)/msg2655453/#msg2655453
But if you upgrade to the new motherboard without AGP - you can't use original graphic card and original LCD/touch screen (the original resistive touch screen is controlled by AGP card)
I've purchased 9.7" iPad LCD with display port adapter and with separate 10.4 capacitive touch screen. The only the problem, that 2048x1536 pixel LCD needs very fast (in 2D mode) graphic card
First I've tried Radeon HD3470 - by fast trigger XStream uses up to 33% of CPU (i5 3570) which is more then one core but XStream is unfortunately single threaded and most of 33% CPU usage used by system (red on the graph)
I mean it is used to transfer information to the graphic card. Now I've ordered Radeon HD 7790 and wiil try this card.

If you want, I can send photos of my LeCroy and detailed instructions.

Best regards,
Dimitrij

That's a big mess of a project that I wanted to avoid. Not worth it for me. So I ordered an Asus P5PE-VM and will put either a P4 HT 661 (single core) or a Core 2 Due E7600 in it. It has native PCI and AGP and is a drop-in replacement for the intel board.

In the meantime I think I have found the problem with the dead Intel motherboard (ADP3168). I'll try to fix that too. I just cannot let it go 

[hafrse]

I did it last year. Install NL10276BC20-04 matrix instead of the original (NL8060BC26-17) is a very simple task. To do this lvds board 1024x768 30-pin scaler can be bought in China, but I prefer to to take out from the old monitor 15 ", which is sold for only $ 3-5.
So in the photo below you can see an example a more radical modernization. This mode 2048x1536 LCD matrix LTN097QL01 iPad Retina 9.7 ", which can also easily be installed inside oscilloscope instead of the original 10.7" NEC 800x600.
It is connected via DP (DisplayPort) interface and a discrete graphics card Radeon HD 6450.

I also last summer replaced the original motherboard WP 7300A to LGA1150, and processor Intel® Core ™ i3-4350, 3.6 MHz x 2 (4 HT). I spent a number of tests: it works faster than ever, and in some situations (in case of large number of computations) the waveform update faster to 4 times.

https://youtu.be/a_AFU8b6rm8

Hello,   I have tried the LTN097QL01  with the HDMI2EDP-4Kx2K-V4.0 controller board (http://www.lcdparts.net/Files/MS609LC_Datasheet.pdf) , works fine but the HDMI2EDP-4Kx2K-V4.0 does not save the settings which has been made in the OSD menus within the HDMI2EDP-4Kx2K-V4.0 (like the language, brightness, etc...) when the +12 power is switched  off! when I switch again, the default setting are there... Did you have better luck with another board?
Many thanks in aadvance!

[sixtimesseven]

I really love the Lecroy scope.

The DDA-5005 is awesome, however, only fixed 50Ohm input.

Simple hardware mod:
Bought a broken WP72000

I'ts already up and running. Had a weird error where Win7k did not find a startup file. Cloned the HDD, now it works flawlessly.