Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
246 (26.6%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
430 (46.5%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
45 (4.9%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
44 (4.8%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
159 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 764

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2766283 times)

sungwoo and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2100 on: December 05, 2013, 01:04:05 am »
... I was just interested to see those pics and thought someone else might be as well (regarding binning, etc.). Of course you can have my calibration data and apply the same math to them as you did on yours.

Same here. I'd love to see some comparisons between the calibration images as well as the correction images. So if you could send your .gan and .crs files that would be really great! In the mean time I have slightly reduced the crappiness of the calibration picture processing code.  ;D
 

Offline tesla500

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2101 on: December 05, 2013, 01:16:59 am »
In regards to adding noise, did we ever get an answer as to weather or not the 9fps models average many frames of the 60fps sensor output to reduce noise, or simply decimate (use only one of the of the frames and discard all those in between)?

If someone wants to perform a simple test we can determine this.

Pan quickly across a scene horizontally and take a picture while panning. Include a vertical object in the pan, ensuring the camera is square to the vertical object. We can determine the pan speed by looking at skewing of the vertical object when panning (since these sensors have rolling shutters at 60hz), and see if the blur is about equal to the pan distance per frame (decimation) or ~6x that (averaging of frames). I suspect in the latter case it will be very hard to see the skewing.
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2102 on: December 05, 2013, 01:52:57 am »
Oh yeah, and you had some interesting typo somewhere that had me scratching my head for a bit. R=R1/R2. Not R1=R/R2
wow, you are right and you are the first power reader of my post
http://u88.n24.queensu.ca/exiftool/forum/index.php/topic,4898.msg23944.html#msg23944
it was a hard way, to find the exif tags AND the correlate formula ( scratching my head )
Flir don't public some background informations
I for one am very happy that you went to all the trouble of finding all those exif tags. That's what makes exiftool so damn useful for use with the E4. :)

Quote
Temperature (in Kelvin) = B / log(R / (S - O) + F)
S is the 14-bit digital signal value.
log(x) is the base-e logarithm of the x parameter.
R Planck R constant ( R=R1/R2 )
B Value range 1300 - 1600.
F Value range 0.5 - 2
O (offset) constant

with R1/R2 Flir avoids large values and rounding errors
Heh yeah, that's the one.  ;D

Quote
Do you happen to have some functions for inclusion of atmospheric influence?
I haven't found any practical informations for air calculations
Well, darnit. I figured that from your post on the exiftool forum, but I thought I'd ask just to be sure. Qualitatively speaking it's my understanding that the atmospheric contributions are "pretty small" aka "negligible", but with that sort of thing I always like to muck about with the numbers to get a feeling for it, just to be sure.

Quote
now I know, why Fluke ignores the atmospheric influence
All that pic tells me is that they sum for 6 main components to the total radiosity. It just looks that complicated because someone skipped their class on communication skill and concise notation. That looks needlessly verbose. Need sleep + will read again.

 

Offline georges80

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2103 on: December 05, 2013, 05:28:48 am »
My manfrotto 237HD turned up today to go with the superclamp that I received yesterday.

With my V2 holder I'm now a happy camper. The 237HD easily supports the E4 and is very stable. I can easily adjust it up/down as needed to bring it into focus with any board I have on my bench. I can now either adjust the lens with my lens adjustment tool or pop in a ZnSe lens for closeup work.

A couple of pics of the setup and with the E4 hanging on the end of the 237HD and superclamp, below.

cheers,
george.

 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2104 on: December 05, 2013, 07:10:36 am »
Qualitatively speaking it's my understanding that the atmospheric contributions are "pretty small" aka "negligible", but with that sort of thing I always like to muck about with the numbers to get a feeling for it, just to be sure.

load a picture in Flir Tools and play around with the air values - you see the negligible changes at near distance

Offline phtn

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2105 on: December 05, 2013, 08:27:43 pm »
TL;DR  received new E4 in USA. firmware 1.19.8.

hi all,

not sure if this is still the relevant thread, but I just wanted to provide another anecdotal piece of evidence regarding shipping versions of the E4. if we've moved this information elsewhere I apologize and please direct me.

i got mine from amazon, it took forever to arrive despite prime shipping. amazon actually thought the unit was lost. I thought maybe FLIR had held shipment. but, it did arrive. here's what it says:

FLIR E4 1.0
Part number 63901-0101
software 1.19.8

when I went to download the software it offered me FLIR Tools 4.0.13330.1003 dated November 28, 2013, which seemed worrisome since it's pretty new and could try to break the hack. any comments on FLIR Tools versions?

finally, a question: JPEGs coming out of this thing are already in 320x240 resolution.

it isn't immediately obvious to me, perhaps I'm blind, whether they are extrapolated up from 80x60, in these days of huge resolution monitors I'm used to enormous JPEGs and I can't decide what I'm looking at.

is the hack to set the native resolution of the sensor to 320x240 and thus output a more clear JPEG?
or.....did something else occur and FLIR gave up? (doubt it)

cheers
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2106 on: December 05, 2013, 08:53:05 pm »
is the hack to set the native resolution of the sensor to 320x240 and thus output a more clear JPEG?
This.
 

Offline phtn

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2107 on: December 05, 2013, 11:01:51 pm »
TL;DR the hack still works with my above version info.

@mrfibble, thank you for confirming that for me.

I'm writing to confirm that the hack did work for me, given the software versions and firmware info I supplied a few posts ago. I was operating inside a VirtualBox 4.1.2 on a linux host and as someone noted on ~page 88, make sure you have guest extensions & EHCI enabled for the FLIR software to see your camera, otherwise it won't.

I was a little nervous about such new FLIR software running (Nov 28, recall) to do the install, so I copied bin/ back over to my host for a poke around. I did the lazy search for obvious non-obfuscated strings that suggested a quick hack had been put in place to stop the E8 cfg push. I couldn't find anything. Since I was running the FLIR software in a virtualbox I disabled networking but I didn't check to see if it was phoning home or anything. then I followed the instructions.

so for the record this FLIRInstallNet.exe works:
$ sha1sum FLIRInstallNet.exe
bb65c19e3bbacaa7e9f5fe764914f9c77ca9d681  FLIRInstallNet.exe

This exe just links to mscoree.dll so there isn't anything else to investigate unless if it dynamically loads dlls, and that's where my Windows knowledge ends.

using my FLIR now, things seem to be fine, the new functionality is there.
cheers to Mike and everyone else who may have assisted along the way in this enhancement.
 

Offline Taucher

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2108 on: December 05, 2013, 11:07:28 pm »
TL;DR the hack still works with my above version info.

@mrfibble, thank you for confirming that for me.

I'm writing to confirm that the hack did work for me, given the software versions and firmware info I supplied a few posts ago. I was operating inside a VirtualBox 4.1.2 on a linux host and as someone noted on ~page 88, make sure you have guest extensions & EHCI enabled for the FLIR software to see your camera, otherwise it won't.

I was a little nervous about such new FLIR software running (Nov 28, recall) to do the install, so I copied bin/ back over to my host for a poke around. I did the lazy search for obvious non-obfuscated strings that suggested a quick hack had been put in place to stop the E8 cfg push. I couldn't find anything. Since I was running the FLIR software in a virtualbox I disabled networking but I didn't check to see if it was phoning home or anything. then I followed the instructions.

so for the record this FLIRInstallNet.exe works:
$ sha1sum FLIRInstallNet.exe
bb65c19e3bbacaa7e9f5fe764914f9c77ca9d681  FLIRInstallNet.exe

This exe just links to mscoree.dll so there isn't anything else to investigate unless if it dynamically loads dlls, and that's where my Windows knowledge ends.

using my FLIR now, things seem to be fine, the new functionality is there.
cheers to Mike and everyone else who may have assisted along the way in this enhancement.

you could have just followed the posts in this thread - we've pretty much dissected the tools / their installation package.
if you want to be spared of unwanted updates just remove the updater exe folder once the tools are installed.

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2109 on: December 05, 2013, 11:36:09 pm »
a compare of Noise Measuring in Service Menu
http://192.168.0.2/service/Diag/NoiseMeasure.asp

new Flir E4 with temp. range -20 to +250 °C
-> Pixel Noise  17.86 mK  =  1.66 digits
Code: [Select]
\>rls .registry.caps.config.image.targetNoise
enabled                     true
targetNoiseMk                  0

\>rls .system.tempsens
TSBoard                  317.285
TSFpa                    316.633
TShutterDigFilt1       322.03729

Temporal noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      17.50      1.63
Row Noise      11.02      1.02
Column Noise      9.59      0.89

Spatial noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      12.51      1.16
Row Noise      2.71      0.25
Column Noise      4.32      0.40
Uniformity      178.43      16.59

Total noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      17.86      1.66                   ====> 10,75 mK/Digit
Row Noise      4.81      0.45
Column Noise      5.89      0.55

old Flir E40 with temp range -20°C bis +120 °C
-> Pixel Noise:   28.96mK =  5.73 Digits
Code: [Select]
\>rls .registry.caps.config.image.targetNoise
enabled                     true
targetNoiseMk                  0

> rls .system.tempsens
TSFpa                  307.98074 Kelvin (35 Grad)
TSShutter              308.14041

Temporal noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      19.85      3.93
Row Noise         6.39      1.26
Column Noise      8.64      1.71

Spatial noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      18.98      3.76
Row Noise         4.70      0.93
Column Noise      5.54      1.10
Uniformity      210.23      41.63

Total noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      28.96      5.73      ====> 5,0 mK / Digit !!
Row Noise         5.76      1.14
Column Noise      7.66      1.52

the old E40 makes really cleaner images with their large good lens (good f-stop)
but the sensor noise is large (30 mK)

Flir combines in the cheap E4 a better sensor (20 mK Noise) with a really bad lens (unsharp)

see below:
the f-stop of the small lens is not so bad - they double the temperature range to 250°C of flir e4 with minor signal amplification

Quote
http://gs.flir.com/surveillance-products/surveillance-technology/imaging-technotes/IR_Technology_Parameters
Uncooled infrared cameras systems are typically a little noisier, in the range of 30 - 120mK. Noise in an image can be spatial or temporal.
Spatial noise is noise across the image at any given point in time. It is perceived as an unchanging fixed pattern on top of the image.
Temporal noise is noise at any point in the image over time. It is perceived as the static that moves in an image.
NETD is typically the measure of both these noise types.


for mathematician: calc different sensor size ;-)

lens of Flir E4
Field Of View                   : 45.0 deg
Code: [Select]
\> .calib.lens.leExFOL7
C1                       0.00982
C2                        0.0424
clearanceDistance           0.04
descr                     "FOL7"
fNumber                      1.5
focDirReverse              false
focLen                      6.57
refT                         303
refTTransmission            0.94

and lens of Flir E40
Field Of View                   : 25.0 deg
Code: [Select]
rls .calib.lens.leE: (23)
C1                       0.00982
C2                        0.0424
clearanceDistance           0.04
rdescr                    "FOL18"
fNumber                      1.3
focLen                     18.04
refTTransmission          0.9025
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 05:40:39 pm by tomas123 »
 

Offline jdesbonnet

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2110 on: December 05, 2013, 11:41:38 pm »
you could have just followed the posts in this thread - we've pretty much dissected the tools / their installation package.
if you want to be spared of unwanted updates just remove the updater exe folder once the tools are installed.

This whole thread is getting very unwieldy and difficult to read/search (especially for those who haven't been following it since the start). It would be handy to have a few pages (eg Wiki) that distills all of the current knowledge on the Flir cameras. I'd be happy to help if someone can suggest a suitable tool.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:48:45 pm by jdesbonnet »
 

Offline Taucher

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2111 on: December 05, 2013, 11:58:23 pm »
you could have just followed the posts in this thread - we've pretty much dissected the tools / their installation package.
if you want to be spared of unwanted updates just remove the updater exe folder once the tools are installed.

This whole thread is getting very unwieldy and difficult to read/search (especially for those who haven't been following it since the start). It would be handy to have a few pages (eg Wiki) that distills all of the current knowledge on the Flir cameras. I'd be happy to help if someone can suggest a suitable tool.

Absolutely true - it took me about one day to read the whole thread when I joined the E4 "community" .. meanwhile it's probably enough volume for several days of reading.

I've considered writing a Wiki / inofficial manual ... but decided not to do so as it would probably draw more attention to the hack and this could lead to an increased need on Flir's side to take countermeasures (and likely trigger a PR-avalance / Streisand Effect)
Right now It's probably best for anybody to keep the whole hack cooking on low flame ;)

A complete, up2date index to important posts would surely be nice for newbies - but that can be just done/maintained by one of the first contributors to this thread ;)

Offline jdesbonnet

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2112 on: December 06, 2013, 12:12:25 am »

Absolutely true - it took me about one day to read the whole thread when I joined the E4 "community" .. meanwhile it's probably enough volume for several days of reading.

I've considered writing a Wiki / inofficial manual ... but decided not to do so as it would probably draw more attention to the hack and this could lead to an increased need on Flir's side to take countermeasures (and likely trigger a PR-avalance / Streisand Effect)
Right now It's probably best for anybody to keep the whole hack cooking on low flame ;)

A complete, up2date index to important posts would surely be nice for newbies - but that can be just done/maintained by one of the first contributors to this thread ;)

Yup, agree. Also being on the flir's "Most Wanted" playing cards pack wouldn't be helpful should I ever need a repair under warrantee job done :)  I'm guessing Mike is the Ace of Spades :D
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2113 on: December 06, 2013, 12:36:48 am »
This is the reason why I created the 'E4 Useful information thread'. There was non-hack related information getting lost in the reams of hack related postings. I have no issue with that as I keep up to date with this thread. It can be a pain for newbies and when you want to find a specific non hack related posting though.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/flir-e4-the-useful-information-thread/

The useful information thread points to this and other useful threads, but I wish to avoid placing any in-depth detail about the configuration based 'improvement' of the E4 in that thread as it will make life difficult for me at the employer level.

Being a little contraversial .....I have always believed that some effort is often needed when upgrading equipment, either directly developing the upgrade or reading about it, and how it was achieved. There is a great deal to be learnt about the E4 from reading the many pages in this thread. Some wish to skip the background and go straight to the punch-line with a simple guide to upgrading their new toys capability. I have no issue with that, but I believe they are missing out on a learning opportunity and just going for the quick win. As I say, no problem with wanting a quick result, but it would be good to read the whole thread in slower time as there is much useful information here.

My viewpoint is likely very outdated in the modern world of fast Google searches, but I grew up in an era where you had to do paper based research at the library in order to achieve a desired goal.  Patience was required. Sure it was a chore but you learnt a lot on the 'journey' to the answer !
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 09:23:24 am by Aurora »
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2114 on: December 06, 2013, 01:10:16 am »
This whole thread is getting very unwieldy and difficult to read/search

The 'Print' view renders the whole topic in a single page allowing you to search the whole topic in your browser. I find that useful for large topics.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2115 on: December 06, 2013, 09:49:21 am »
What would be useful is to have a way to add something like a grade or importance level to posts, which could then be used as a filter to let the reader decide on what level of detail they get - like the slashdot comments system.

I do update the first post in the  thread with links to latest info, but I agree that some intermediate level of filtering to condense long threads would be useful. 
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Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2116 on: December 06, 2013, 10:40:58 am »
Flir combines in the cheap E4 a better sensor (20 mK Noise) with a really bad lens

as sample an "untouched" calibration image from a Flir E4 (remapping bad pixel)
ds250C_we_ap_fi_le_static.gan

you see diagonal stripes from the bad lens (top left corner)
sensor stripes from read-out are accurate vertical

ps: there are 170 bad pixel
convert to an 1-bit image and count with imagemagick identify
Code: [Select]
>identify -verbose *.gif
Image: ds250C_we_ap_fi_le_static.gif
  Geometry: 320x240+0+0
  Channel depth:     gray: 1-bit
  Histogram:
       170: (  0,  0,  0) #000000 black
     76630: (255,255,255) #FFFFFF white
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:12:02 pm by tomas123 »
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2117 on: December 06, 2013, 01:52:48 pm »
for comparison here a calibration image from a Flir E40

ds120C_we_ap_fi_le_static.gan
17 Bad Pixel
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 01:58:59 pm by tomas123 »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2118 on: December 06, 2013, 02:15:18 pm »
Yup, agree. Also being on the flir's "Most Wanted" playing cards pack wouldn't be helpful should I ever need a repair under warrantee job done :)  I'm guessing Mike is the Ace of Spades :D

Actually, I'd say that Mike deserves a rather nice Christmas card from Flir.  Considering the fact that as a result of his efforts, he likely generated something on the order of ~0.5M$ of sales at EOY-Q4 that they would not have seen otherwise.

Not that he'll get one, of course.  ;)
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2119 on: December 06, 2013, 02:42:06 pm »
for comparison here a calibration image from a Flir E40

ds120C_we_ap_fi_le_static.gan
17 Bad Pixel

Interesting E4 vs E40 comparison. Incidentally could you also post the raw .gan and .crs files? That, and do you use exiftool for the gan files? I tried it some time ago but that didn't work. So in the interest of a quick fix I just ditch the 544 byte header and read the raw 16-bit data.

Also interesting to see that you get roughly the same amount of banding on the E4 as on mine. I also checked schdiewen's .gan file and it really does seem he's a lucky bastard! XD No banding to be detected in the .gan file. I'll post the FFT in a bit. There is a big fat stripe in the .crs image so that's a bit weird.
 

Offline Alphatronique

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2120 on: December 06, 2013, 03:56:28 pm »
just got my  from tequipment  (take very long before ship)

V 1.19.8  sn 63906xxx


was quite impress by the "pelican" case that come whit
definitively a good buy  ;D

« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 04:19:35 pm by Alphatronique »
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Offline bernroth

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2121 on: December 06, 2013, 06:11:38 pm »
Just to confirm that the cam in RNDIS mode works fine on a Linux host with kernel 3.11 (I am using Linux Mint 13 with the kernel of the latest ubuntu version, package name "linux-image-generic-lts-saucy", version 3.11.0.14.13)

kernel messages when plugging the cam in:

[117540.997436] usb 1-6: reset high-speed USB device number 13 using ehci-pci
[117541.154362] rndis_host 1-6:1.0: RNDIS_MSG_QUERY(0x00010202) failed, -47
[117541.162965] rndis_host 1-6:1.0 eth1: register 'rndis_host' at usb-0000:00:1a.7-6, RNDIS device, 00:40:7f:xx:xx:xx

kernel version:

xxx@xxx01 ~ $ uname -a
Linux xxx01 3.11.0-14-generic #21~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Wed Nov 13 19:37:48 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

After plugging in the cam, the host fires up a new interface "eth1" with IP 192.168.0.1 and it's possible to connect to the cam via http/ftp/telnet
No problem at all  O0
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2122 on: December 06, 2013, 06:12:35 pm »
The price of the FLIR E8 has dropped from $5,995 to $4,995. I wonder if the E4 hack had anything to do with it. >:D

Edit: It turns out it's a Cyber Monday discount: https://www.facebook.com/FLIRthermography/posts/654409804602576
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 06:20:16 pm by ixfd64 »
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2123 on: December 06, 2013, 07:13:32 pm »
The price of the FLIR E8 has dropped from $5,995 to $4,995. I wonder if the E4 hack had anything to do with it. >:D

Edit: It turns out it's a Cyber Monday discount: https://www.facebook.com/FLIRthermography/posts/654409804602576
It was always overpriced compared to the lower models in the Ex0 range - doubt they ever expected to sell many
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Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2124 on: December 06, 2013, 07:24:05 pm »
The E8 is old hat anyway....long live the Special Edition E8+  ;D
 


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